Rune Priest Ridcully Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 What would happen if in a conflict the wolf lord and all/most of the wolf guard in the great company were killed? in the case of all is a long fang chosen by the wolf priests, or is a wolf guard from another company recomended (I doubt this due to the individual nature of great companies) does a wolf/rune/iron priest take charge, becoming psydo wolf lord in a way, gradually rebuilding the wolf guard ranks and then suggesting one of them for the position? If there are few wolf guard left, like two or three, do they pick from those three, even if no one else thinks they would be paticually good at it? Do they get one of the dreadnoughts out? (I do miss taking venrable dreadnoughts as HQ..) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 They would probably all gather together in their main company hall/bar and fight it out till the most deadly/inebraited so much he can't feel pain/dang hard to kill is left standing. Then, he gets pick of who he thinks are the best and wolf guard and wolf lord are born. Or the remainder of the company rest/buy another round so they can fight again to determine who can be in the wolf guard. Or the most alpha male could unanimously be voted in, though that would be quite rare i imagine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_starrise Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I would assume this would vary greatly as to whether or not it was in the middle of a campaign or if they were able to have some down time to figure it out. If neccessity dictate they have a leader immediately I'd think the priests would assume ad-hoc leadership in the interim until things got calmed down. At which point I'd think the Wolf Priest would appoint a new Wolf Guard cadre & seeing how they fight & lead choose one as a wolf guard battle leader. Once the campaign ended & they return to Fenris more than likely from there the rest of the Great Company would probably agree to elect the WGBL as Wolf Lord if he'd been leading well. If not... I have no idea lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 If not...Let the beer and fists fly! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I would think that the GC would return to the Fang. Considering that loses like that would mean that the Company is very much below "fighting strength". Once back at the Fang it would be the Great Wolf deciding who would lead the new Great Company once it was refitted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 No way! This is space wolves. There has to be fighting and beer in here somewhere. Maybe they're fighting beer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_starrise Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I would think that the GC would return to the Fang. Considering that loses like that would mean that the Company is very much below "fighting strength". Once back at the Fang it would be the Great Wolf deciding who would lead the new Great Company once it was refitted. Well not neccessarily, I mean what if all the wolf guard & wolf lord are simply vaporized by a titan's volcano cannon or something but yet the majority of the fighting men in the great company still remain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arez Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 I would think that the GC would return to the Fang. Considering that loses like that would mean that the Company is very much below "fighting strength". Once back at the Fang it would be the Great Wolf deciding who would lead the new Great Company once it was refitted. Well not neccessarily, I mean what if all the wolf guard & wolf lord are simply vaporized by a titan's volcano cannon or something but yet the majority of the fighting men in the great company still remain? Still wouldnt be "fighting strength" since Wolf Guard leads packs and teaches all other Wolf classes IMO the most senior Wolf Priest present would take command till the battle slows then if there are some wolf guard left he would likely select the most seasoned and most powerful to become Wolf Lord.If not they would likely chose a Long Fang as they are the most senior under the Wolf Guard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 No way! This is space wolves. There has to be fighting and beer in here somewhere. Maybe they're fighting beer? I can't tell if you're serious or not, but if so, congratulations. You bought into the visage the Vlka Fenryka wanted you to. Personally, I think the persona portrayed by your belief of what SW are is disappointing at best. As far as leader, I agree with Arez. However, I would think that the Wolf Lord wouldn't put all his eggs in one basket and make sure one of his Guard is either left on Fenris (to make decisions in his stead as a proxy representative) or in orbit/away on another mission. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 I was joking. I've always thought of the Space Wolves as heavy on the Wolf, less on the beer guzzling viking. Thats why i suggested the a) Pack fight for supremacy, or the dominants fight or ;) the next most alpha male naturally comes into his element. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Indeed, in the same way that the Fell-Handed was left behind by Russ and his company and that a Company is always left behind to protect the fang, that there would always be a wolf guard left behind, probabily either contributing with organisational endevours while the lord fought, or otherwise. Thats not considering the rarity that the Wolf Lord would take to the field, probably due to the raw importence of logistics (all space wolves are educated on the imperium and tactics upon graduation, just because they threw the codex out, simply means they use a different set of tactics rather then a absence of tactics.) or the difficulty in killing every wolf guard without killing the majority of the company off. (The Wolf Guard lead as sargents, and the Death Wing style tactics are probably almost none existant in excution. I often think that they actually bring up promising Grey Hunters/Long Fangs to help fill out the ranks, or in Logans cases drafts wolf guard from every company to field the numbers that he does). In the case it does happen, I imagine the Wolf Priest would take over until a more ideal candidate is selected, considering that the wolf priest experience in the well being of his company until a new Wolf Guard proves himself. Or that the company simply broken down by the great wolf and ceases to exist to serve as an example or a lession to the rest of the great companys and it is reborn anew resources pending. This would be the most harsh punishment to the honour of a fallen wolf, but in this case entirely justified. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuro Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 If they're on the battlefield : Normal chain of command and priests/dreadnoughts etc.. take over if they're there and have seniority. (a wolf-priest will always have it, because that's how they're chosen. Rune priests and Iron Priests are chosen based on their respective disciplines, so they may not be the best person to lead.) Return to the Fang : Will depend on Company make-up. The Great Wolf will consult with the Priests/dreadnoughts that were at the battle and any others with knowledge of the company members, and if there is a suitable candidate they'll go with that one. Otherwise I imagine he'll promote a Wolf Guard from another company or offer it to a Wolf-priest, even if on a temporary basis; The companies may be separate, but they know they need a good leader to be effective and wouldn't let pride get in the way of that (and if it is a problem, a care-taking Wolf Priest would be a neat solution). Tsuro Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2846975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 The Great Companies are never split up, with elements left on Fenris while others go campaigning. They are completely autonomous armies and aren't subject to the kind of "splitting" that happens with more traditional chapters (where a force sent on campaign is drawn from elements of the Battle Companies, Scout Companies, Veteran Companies, the Armory/Librarium/Reclusiam, and Assault/Reserve Companies if necessary). When the Great Wolf decides to send a Great Company on campaign, the entire Great Company is sent, and where the bulk of the Space Wolves Chapter leaves Fenris (either on individual campaigns or on one big one), there is always at least one Great Company left on Fenris. That is, one entire Great Company. In the case where the central Leadership is completely eradicated (Wolf Lord, all Wolf Guard Battle Leaders (which removes any Wolf Guard who were perhaps being groomed by the Wolf Lord for leadership), all Wolf Guard, etc.) it is a Dreadnought, or one of the Priesthood (Wolf Priests and Rune Priests, in that order) which assumes operational command on the battlefield until the conclusion of the campaign or the Great Company returns to Fenris. If even they are killed, the Great Company will (if it must remain on the field) pick their most experienced Veteran (can be a Long Fang, but it can be a Grey Hunter if necessary) to assume temporary command. Once said Great Company returns to Fenris, the Great Wolf will choose the next Wolf Lord for that Great Company (probably picked from either his own Wolf Guard, or perhaps the Wolf Guard of another Great Company), and new recruits will be funneled into the Great Company until it returns to acceptable operational strength. Chances are the Great Company will remain on Fenris for some time as it rebuilds itself, because to have lost its entire core of leadership means that the Company would have suffered heavy losses indeed. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2847841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 The Great Companies are never split up, with elements left on Fenris while others go campaigning. They are completely autonomous armies and aren't subject to the kind of "splitting" that happens with more traditional chapters (where a force sent on campaign is drawn from elements of the Battle Companies, Scout Companies, Veteran Companies, the Armory/Librarium/Reclusiam, and Assault/Reserve Companies if necessary). When the Great Wolf decides to send a Great Company on campaign, the entire Great Company is sent, and where the bulk of the Space Wolves Chapter leaves Fenris (either on individual campaigns or on one big one), there is always at least one Great Company left on Fenris. That is, one entire Great Company. In the case where the central Leadership is completely eradicated (Wolf Lord, all Wolf Guard Battle Leaders (which removes any Wolf Guard who were perhaps being groomed by the Wolf Lord for leadership), all Wolf Guard, etc.) it is a Dreadnought, or one of the Priesthood (Wolf Priests and Rune Priests, in that order) which assumes operational command on the battlefield until the conclusion of the campaign or the Great Company returns to Fenris. If even they are killed, the Great Company will (if it must remain on the field) pick their most experienced Veteran (can be a Long Fang, but it can be a Grey Hunter if necessary) to assume temporary command. Once said Great Company returns to Fenris, the Great Wolf will choose the next Wolf Lord for that Great Company (probably picked from either his own Wolf Guard, or perhaps the Wolf Guard of another Great Company), and new recruits will be funneled into the Great Company until it returns to acceptable operational strength. Chances are the Great Company will remain on Fenris for some time as it rebuilds itself, because to have lost its entire core of leadership means that the Company would have suffered heavy losses indeed. DV8 I agree completely with this. Thank you DV8! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2847970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 The Great Companies are never split up, with elements left on Fenris while others go campaigning. They are completely autonomous armies and aren't subject to the kind of "splitting" that happens with more traditional chapters (where a force sent on campaign is drawn from elements of the Battle Companies, Scout Companies, Veteran Companies, the Armory/Librarium/Reclusiam, and Assault/Reserve Companies if necessary). When the Great Wolf decides to send a Great Company on campaign, the entire Great Company is sent, and where the bulk of the Space Wolves Chapter leaves Fenris (either on individual campaigns or on one big one), there is always at least one Great Company left on Fenris. That is, one entire Great Company. In the case where the central Leadership is completely eradicated (Wolf Lord, all Wolf Guard Battle Leaders (which removes any Wolf Guard who were perhaps being groomed by the Wolf Lord for leadership), all Wolf Guard, etc.) it is a Dreadnought, or one of the Priesthood (Wolf Priests and Rune Priests, in that order) which assumes operational command on the battlefield until the conclusion of the campaign or the Great Company returns to Fenris. If even they are killed, the Great Company will (if it must remain on the field) pick their most experienced Veteran (can be a Long Fang, but it can be a Grey Hunter if necessary) to assume temporary command. Once said Great Company returns to Fenris, the Great Wolf will choose the next Wolf Lord for that Great Company (probably picked from either his own Wolf Guard, or perhaps the Wolf Guard of another Great Company), and new recruits will be funneled into the Great Company until it returns to acceptable operational strength. Chances are the Great Company will remain on Fenris for some time as it rebuilds itself, because to have lost its entire core of leadership means that the Company would have suffered heavy losses indeed. DV8 Could I just ask, is this canon or just an opinion? It makes a lot of sense, but I'd like to know if this how it "is" or just how you "think" it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2848317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharn_the_betrayer Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The Great Companies are never split up, with elements left on Fenris while others go campaigning. They are completely autonomous armies and aren't subject to the kind of "splitting" that happens with more traditional chapters (where a force sent on campaign is drawn from elements of the Battle Companies, Scout Companies, Veteran Companies, the Armory/Librarium/Reclusiam, and Assault/Reserve Companies if necessary). When the Great Wolf decides to send a Great Company on campaign, the entire Great Company is sent, and where the bulk of the Space Wolves Chapter leaves Fenris (either on individual campaigns or on one big one), there is always at least one Great Company left on Fenris. That is, one entire Great Company. In the case where the central Leadership is completely eradicated (Wolf Lord, all Wolf Guard Battle Leaders (which removes any Wolf Guard who were perhaps being groomed by the Wolf Lord for leadership), all Wolf Guard, etc.) it is a Dreadnought, or one of the Priesthood (Wolf Priests and Rune Priests, in that order) which assumes operational command on the battlefield until the conclusion of the campaign or the Great Company returns to Fenris. If even they are killed, the Great Company will (if it must remain on the field) pick their most experienced Veteran (can be a Long Fang, but it can be a Grey Hunter if necessary) to assume temporary command. Once said Great Company returns to Fenris, the Great Wolf will choose the next Wolf Lord for that Great Company (probably picked from either his own Wolf Guard, or perhaps the Wolf Guard of another Great Company), and new recruits will be funneled into the Great Company until it returns to acceptable operational strength. Chances are the Great Company will remain on Fenris for some time as it rebuilds itself, because to have lost its entire core of leadership means that the Company would have suffered heavy losses indeed. DV8 Could I just ask, is this canon or just an opinion? It makes a lot of sense, but I'd like to know if this how it "is" or just how you "think" it is. I think that its also an image. I can't really see a senior Wolf being left behind with, "hey we need to do an invintory of these bolts. Every single one by hand, not by the case. The Mechanicus wants this invintory in a few weeks and come to find out the servitor we made for this can only count to 12 ooops. " No they would probably write on the invintory sheet that they were too busy being used to be counted and to just send more then go use them. I know this is a silly example, but this would be a prime example of what happens for a cheap excusse to leave someone at home. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2850058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Could I just ask, is this canon or just an opinion? It makes a lot of sense, but I'd like to know if this how it "is" or just how you "think" it is. Depends how you define canon. If you read the book Battle of the Fang this is basically how it played out. All but one of the Great Companies went to hunt down Magnus. The "lucky" Wolf Lord was assigned the protection of Fenris. It is not "counting inventory" given the history of the Space Wolves. There are also mentions in our codex (I think) about leaving some of the Chapter behind so we are never truly wiped out. I'll grab the book and codex and try to find some citations. *EDIT* Wolf Priest asks "And who will man the Citadel, Lord?" Great Wolf answers "Only one Great Company will remain - the rest I will commit to this" Battle of the Fang, p. 32 "He knew more now of how the Chapter was divided up into a number of great companies, the armed retinues of mighty warleaders, and that it was rare for more than one of those great companies to be at the Fang at any given time." Space Wolf, p.202 (Omnibus) "Ragnar nodded. The maximum number of companies ever deployed in the field was eleven. One company always had to beleft out of a campaign, so if all the others were wiped out it meant the Chapter would continue. Such an event had happened only three times in Space Wolves' history, but happen it had. To have ten companies dispatched to the same place at the same time was most unusual indeed" Grey Hunter, p.560 (Omnibus) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2850073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Well, see th is a problem when you let some lone writer right things and people want to make it a rule. They do send packs off on their own all the time. Read the fluff. The Wolves have a ton of holdings to look after and allies to back. So they send off some here and there. DV8 remember the Wolf Lords pull packs to there banner. They pick Blood Claws but a pack can leave and sometimes do. Ragnar's first Wolf Lord was having troubles with that sorta thing. It was mentioned in passing. He was not as heroic as some and so had fewer followers. Still he gave Ragnars pack a chance so they took it. This is from a book thou. And that was the point. They wanted it to feel like Viking Raiders. Where different packs followed different leaders for a time and would change as fortunes wax and wane. Then you have whole Great Companies just up and leave. It Happens. So how does a Great Company get replaced? Has to be something more then a few guys punching each other in the face. So it's obvious there is another means that they just have not shown yet. I believe if a Company is all lost or leaves then the Wolf Lord would appoint someone to form another. Probley pulling Packs from here and there and putting a good number of new Blood Claws into the mix to fill it out. It's makes sence. The Fang has some political schemeing surely. So I imagine the Wolf Lord would pick someone he trusts whop follows him or his buddies and let them start a Company. This will give him more backing in the coucil room. I just wish they would stop screwing up their own fluff every 7 to 10 years. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2852334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I just wish they would stop screwing up their own fluff every 7 to 10 years. lol Ah yes, I remember when the Fortress Monastery was still on Lucan; a verdant and productive world. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236238-the-wolf-lord-and-wolf-guard-are-all-dead/#findComment-2852347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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