Index Astartes: Chimeras

[Arkangilos]

I will just help with the rest of the organisation then.

 

I imagine a chapter like this would be based either on a fleet chapter or a space station. Where they would then aquire their raw resources from planets or through the inquistation.

 

If they are effectively immortal, I don't see why they would adopt codex tactics, due to their near invalublity and self belief, I imagine they would tutor their tactics to meet everything head on, since these inferiour creatures that they constantly pit themselves against are incapable of killing them. Which would influence their combat methods by taking everything near headon, it really reminds me of how the Black Templars fight, largely on foot in huge squads, shrugging off hits as they move forwards.

 

On that note, while they may not be able to produce psykers, I imagine the chaplin would be huge to constantly monitor their well being, since most of these guys have psyker hoods, it's vital that they are checked against corruption, as their psykerisum is a beacon in the warp for Chaos to influtrate their souls, which in combination with their regenative abilitys being related to the purity/strength of their soul would make them extremely vital to ensuring the chapter continues to opperate.

 

Perhaps the Chap's need to be drawn from other chapters, as they are non-psykers. Which could make for a interesting death watch cycle of them being inducted, assisting the chapter for a certain period, before being mind wiped and returned back to the chapter, or remaining attached permently to keep them secerative. Being a complete outsider allowing him to observe them in a unbiest viewpoint.

 

Based on the size of Imperial ships as is, I suppose a fleet would work best.

The Black Templar idea works to some extent, except I don't see the Chimeras having the numbers to do the same. The actual chimeras could serve as a forward unit, similar to the Space Wolves and their hounds. Taking things head on sound about right, though.

White the Chaplains preach, I believe that the monitoring would be done more by the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. After all, if the Chaplains are the ones giving encouragement, why would you want them to be marines that are incapable of going through the same punishment as the rest of the chapter. It would be especially discouraging if the one telling you "you can make it through anything if you believe in yourself" is one of the only marines to fall and not get back up. Not to mention, they already have a superiority complex, why would they listen to another chaplain?

 

Ok first up, I don't like the name simply because it shares the name of the Imperial Guard's primary transport.

 

Second some questions:

 

1. How did people who messed up the rest of the 21st Foundlings so bad, and can't tie their shoe laces without some ritual and prayers (which were passed down via Chinese whispers), come anywhere close to replicating the Emperor's achievements by making a "Chapter" of stable* "mini-Primarches"?

 

* = Stable as in the success stories not the monsters.

 

2. The biggest thing about the 21st Founding is that everyone who came out of it, came out with some defect or issue, where is yours beyond "they don't use Astartes grade Power Armour"?

 

3. How did they survive M.37 "when the more wayward and corrupt members of the 21st Founding and other dissident forces were being exterminated in a series of bloody wars and purges"?

 

 

Third: The Inquisition is a body of individuals, not a unified organization. You may have Inquisitors who back this project (like the Thorians), but you are also going to have allot of puritans gunning for your guys.

 

Fourth: I'm also a FMA fan, but it reads like you are trying too hard to stick the FMA Homunculi as they are into Wh40k universe with little adaption, and allot of Wh40k smashing.

 

Fifth: As a friend asking what is with the "I'm going to do what I want, and I don't care what anyone says (but I'll still cuss you out)" attitude dude, that is something I'd expect from a teenage B+C newbie not you? :blush:

 

Nice to hear from you Heru. The name problem is unavoidable, ie: Leviathan (the Mobile Command Center and the Hive Fleet)

For your points:

1&2: Between the Lamenters curing the Red Thirst and Black Rage and the Fire Hawks supposedly continuing to exist as The Legion of the Damned, I'd say that the 21st had some successes. In ability, I imagine these guys to be equals to Space Marines, not Primarchs. The only thing that makes them better is their ability to heal. Tying in with their ability to heal, they are souls from the warp rebound to artificial flesh. Their ability to heal is based entirely on their will to survive. I could imagine it very well being that in order for them to even exist and maintain themselves they must maintain that strength of will or else degrade into nothingness or a monster. Would that be an appropriate defect?

 

3 (both of them :P ): I could see the Inquisitors advocating the project protecting their investment. I don't have the Dark Heresy books, could you give me a run down of the Inquisitorial parties and their beliefs? I'd like to know who would be vouching for them and who would be out to expose and/ or destroy them.

 

4: To a degree, yes. However, I'm avoiding powers beyond durability. I'm trying to make that durability feasible by connecting them to the warp. The biggest apparent example of Wh40k smashing I've done comes from a different interpretation of how dangerous a latent psyker can be.

 

5: Honestly, my reasoning boils down to the fact that up until this point (ie Wysten's post above yours and your own) the "comments" by and large have mirrored this:

 

I can't see this ending in a good way....

 

I can appreciate criticism. I cannot appreciate blatant nay saying.

 

Darkchild gave some advice, and you said it was moot.

 

There are two major parties of the Inquisition (from both Dark Heresy, and Codex: Witch Hunters):

-The Puritans (who will kill/excomunicate anyone who use fire to fight fire).

-The Radicals (who believe in fighting fire with fire, using the enemies weapons, etc.)

 

Both the Purtians and Radicals have various subgroups (you could make one up, even).

 

Radicals will probably be the ones who would support it.

[Donkey Kong]

Aye, imperial ships are pretty massive, but it also makes them really mobile. Which means they can't be questioned.

 

Yeah, as said, blood angels would probably be the best match as they are highly mobile, not as numberious as some marines, they focus on getting into close combat really quickly and, with the Sanguary Priests granting both feel no pain (by reminding themselves of their faith) and Chaps to make them more furious. They may forgo transports all together to get grips with foe with jumppacks

 

As for claps, their main purpose, along with maintaining the well being of the marine, is to also be weary of corruption. Considering that they have superiouty issues, they may not recongise that a member of their elite ranks could be corrupted, easpically since they can't judge themselves as they are drawn from the warp. Them looking up to him is a good question, though chaps in general have immense willpower, that they have fought at the forfront of many battles and several examples have outlasted or raised chapter masters and continued to serve under them. They are quite exceptional warriors of endurance, even by marine standards.

 

The only thing with the chapters you mentioned is that they are extremely flawed. Laminators cured it, but suffer from terrible luck that has almost wiped them out, and apprently is wearing off, and the fire hawks were exceptionally unlucky by being largely destoryed in their first day.

 

I don't game, so the appropriate codex does not matter to me. Thanks, though.

 

What if the monitoring was done by the scientists who created them? The Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Inquisitors who want to keep their reputation up and protect them from the organizations who want to bring them down, etc. It would also be there to undermine their superiority complex in a funny way. Reminds me that sects of the Adeptus Mechanicus would probably play a more direct role in their armory, since no advocate would want to send off a homunculus to Mars.

 

The Twenty First Founding also produced stable chapters like the Minotaurs. This was a time when the High Lords of Terra were willing to sanction more extreme projects in the creation of space marines. This is one of those extreme projects.

 

Darkchild gave some advice, and you said it was moot.

 

There are two major parties of the Inquisition (from both Dark Heresy, and Codex: Witch Hunters):

-The Puritans (who will kill/excomunicate anyone who use fire to fight fire).

-The Radicals (who believe in fighting fire with fire, using the enemies weapons, etc.)

 

Both the Purtians and Radicals have various subgroups (you could make one up, even).

 

Radicals will probably be the ones who would support it.

 

Darkchild suggested a complete overhaul in a direction that makes even less sense than my own. Inquisitors don't have the kind of authority to conduct a project like this on their own. I was more interested in the existing subgroups of the Inquisition and their beliefs, but thank you.

 

Outline

Origins

-Twenty First Founding

-Attempt at recreating the Primarchs

-Involvement of Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis and Adeptus Astra Telepathica

-Initial results yield monsters "Chimeras"

-Successful homunculi created motivating scientists to continue working

-Inquisitor(s) push scientists to continue working on the project (Parties/ Characters to be specified)

-Warpcraft and organic chemistry, binding of soul and created matter in natural dimension

-Homunculi anatomy/ physiology: Functional space marine implants minus black carapace naturally present, latent psykers incapable of further concentrating powers, connection to the warp allows for near instantaneous regeneration

-Homunculi are capable of regeneration so long as the mind and soul have the will to continue to exist.

Homeworld

-Fleet based

-Maintain position in empty space between Imperial Sectors

-Sanctioned teams belonging to the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Astra Telepahtica maintain constant presence

-Inquisitorial advocates recruit scientific minds to join existing sanctioned teams

Chapter Organization

-Under-strength

-Between 4 and 6 full strength codex battle companies at any given time

-No Apothecaries (unnecessary)

-No Librarians (incapable of actively/ consciously using psychic powers beyond their ability to regenerate)

-Record keeping done by Imperial scientists and Inquisitorial servants

-No Techmarines

-Armory maintenance conducted by Adeptus Mechanicus

Combat Doctrine

-Tackle obstacles head on

-Utilize failed creations as forward shock units

-Support/ supported by Inquisitorial and Mechanicus forces

Chapter Cult

-Believe themselves to be superior to other space marines

-Chaplains maintain strength of mind to ensure spiritual and, by relation, physical well-being

Gene-Seed

-No Gene-Seed

-Venerate all Primarchs

 

comments and criticism welcome.

 

EDIT:

 

This is my visual interpretation of "neigh instantaneous regeneration."

[Arkangilos]

I don't see how his ideas did not make sense. Inquisitors hold supreme authority to do what they want, with only other Inquisitors able to stop them. If they wanted to do this, they would make deals with the Mechanicus to give them the facilities and gears.

[Donkey Kong]

I don't see how his ideas did not make sense. Inquisitors hold supreme authority to do what they want, with only other Inquisitors able to stop them. If they wanted to do this, they would make deals with the Mechanicus to give them the facilities and gears.

 

Inquisitorial authority is limited to that of the authority of the individual Inquisitor or group of Inquisitors. Inquisitors do not have any authority over space marines. The Chimeras are space marines. I do not believe that Darkchild's idea is plausible. Regardless of its plausibility, Darkchild's suggestion was not a comment on what I had already come up with, but an idea to take what I had in a completely different direction.

 

First tidbit

Origins

“My name is Lion.”

-Adam One, The First Homunculus

 

The Adam Project is easily described as one of the most ambitious goals of the infamous Twenty First Founding. Sanctioned by the High Lords of Terra, the most brilliant and willing minds of the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Astra Telepathica were gathered together to recreate the Emperor's greatest warriors: The Primarchs. These scientists began their work with neigh limitless material resources and clearance to meet the demands of the most powerful individuals in the Imperium. However, insufficient data surrounding the Primarchs soon forced them to rely on the genetic blueprints of their closest relatives, the space marines.

 

Initial work yielded countless failures. They were creatures, more beast than human, and half daemonic, chimeras born from both the warp and reality, but belonging to neither. Some were feral, while others were created half-dead. All were euthanized if they did not already decay of their own accord. The first successful homunclus was flesh forged nearly two years after the project began, when the High Lords had little hope of any success. Although It stood a head shorter than an average space marine, It was a genetic match. It possessed a complete set of functional enhancements save the Black Carapace, essential to operate space marine grade power armor. To the surprise and pleasure of all, It was latently psychic, but could not focus Its powers. In spite of Its daze, It proved to be capable of rudimentary speech and comprehension. It was told Its purpose, and It was proud.

 

Scientists named the homunclus Adam One, the first success of the Adam Project. However Adam One never acknowledged the title, instead It named Itself Lion, after the First Primarch.

 

I imagine the scientists would test Lion against other warriors, perhaps Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii, and receiving a superficial wound which leads him to question his dominance. The moment of doubt leads to an inability to regenerate as a normal space marine would, and accelerates decay. It needs to be coerced into believing that wounds cannot stop It. Arrogance keeps It intact and the latent psychic ability reveals its purpose. The impact of this could be even greater if it is a performance done before the High Lords of Terra and the Inquisitors. The HLoT become disgusted when they see Lion in despair, but some of the Radical Inquisitors who will continue to fund the project will see how Lion regenerates. This is important enough to be in the primary article, but, as a story, it would fit better in a sidebar. I could mention it in passing while detailing the event in a sidebar.

 

There is an Outline in Post 27 detailing what else I plan on writing. Anything can be changed, so comment away.

[Arkangilos]

In all honesty, they do have a lot of authority over space marines in a lot of situations. They have more authority over them than the High Lords and Mechanicus.

[Donkey Kong]

In all honesty, they do have a lot of authority over space marines in a lot of situations. They have more authority over them than the High Lords and Mechanicus.

 

Space Wolves and Black Templars spit in their face. The Badab War paid only lip service to Inquisitorial authority. The High Lords sanction the creation of chapters. The Mechanicus is the only steady source of arms and munitions. Inquisitors have no power over space marines.

 

Regardless of its plausibility, Darkchild's suggestion was not a comment on what I had already come up with, but an idea to take what I had in a completely different direction.

 

I am not going to use Darkchild's idea.

[Heru]

In all honesty, they do have a lot of authority over space marines in a lot of situations. They have more authority over them than the High Lords and Mechanicus.

 

Space Wolves and Black Templars spit in their face. The Badab War paid only lip service to Inquisitorial authority. The High Lords sanction the creation of chapters. The Mechanicus is the only steady source of arms and munitions. Inquisitors have no power over space marines.

Space Wolves and Black Templars "spit" because they have allot of history and allot of friends. Starting a proper fight with them would create a civil war that would make the Badab War look like a skirmish.

 

And the Inquistion does have authority of the Space Marines. Just look at the Relictors, or any one of the Chapters who the Crimson Fists, Sons of Medusa and others have exterminated on Inquisitiorial decree.

 

Or look at the Celestial Lions and how the Inquisition allegedly (which in 40k terms means did) had them decimated with the use of Vindicare assassins (in order for an assassin to be issued there has to be the ok of the Ordo Sicarius).

 

The Inquisition has total authority over everyone, and only have to answer to each other and the Emperor.

 

The section "Role of the Inquisition" on the lexicanum Inquistion page is very accurate based on everything I've read (which is allot) on the big =I= so far:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisition

[Donkey Kong]

Space Wolves and Black Templars "spit" because they have allot of history and allot of friends. Starting a proper fight with them would create a civil war that would make the Badab War look like a skirmish.

 

And the Inquistion does have authority of the Space Marines. Just look at the Relictors, or any one of the Chapters who the Crimson Fists, Sons of Medusa and others have exterminated on Inquisitiorial decree.

 

Or look at the Celestial Lions and how the Inquisition allegedly (which in 40k terms means did) had them decimated with the use of Vindicare assassins (in order for an assassin to be issued there has to be the ok of the Ordo Sicarius).

 

The Inquisition has total authority over everyone, and only have to answer to each other and the Emperor.

 

The section "Role of the Inquisition" on the lexicanum Inquistion page is very accurate based on everything I've read (which is allot) on the big =I= so far:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisition

 

It's hardly absolute authority when the other guy can out muscle you. I don't quite agree with your interpretation of allegedly, but even then, a sharpshooter is a sharpshooter, and it shouldn't be hard for an Inquisitor to just use one of their own acolytes. The thing about assassins never really made sense when you consider the fact that they apparently need to be sanctioned by the High Lords of Terra, the busiest people in the Imperium, and the Celestial Lions got swatted almost immediately after they chose to pick a fight. There's also the fact that it was done in secret, proving that Inquisitors don't exactly have the nads to openly stand behind the decisions they make, or are too smart too. Regardless, a suitably powerful individual should not have any fear of openly stating their decisions.

 

Also, from Lexicanum: "learned Inquisitors show discretion and request the assistance of the Space Marines and attempt not to anger the Adepts of Mars." Pissing space marines or the mechanicus is a quick and easy way to lose friends, which can be a problem for Inquisitors whose power is their friends. Demanding the Mechanicus to turn over facilities doesn't look like it would be easy to do. Ultimately, I do not believe that Inquisitors would have the power to acquire everything necessary to lead this project. However, I do intend on having Inquisitors fight to keep the project alive and protect a chapter that will ultimately be on par with organizations like the Grey Knights, Exorcists, and Deathwatch in terms of being Inquisitorial Space Marines.

[Arkangilos]

Also, they don't get all of their geir from the Mechanicus. After their founding, they can pretty much MAKE their own gear.

 

And for the Inquisitor thing, you can also look at the Soul Drinkers.

 

For the assassin thing, yes, it does need the consent of the HLoT, but you know what? So does half of the other things that happen that "have their consent."

 

The way the HLoT get to it so it is done when needed, "Here is the seal of the Emperor, its good for the next three years." There, all assassinations have just been sanctioned by the HLoT, and someone who has the dedicated task of running the Assassin missions and building their Op Orders just stamps the papers as he sees fit.

[Ace Debonair]

OK.

Before I begin, the following is meant constructively.

Even the bits that read like pure, unadulterated criticism.

 

Premise: The Chimeras are a Chapter in function alone. In terms of creation, they are completely different beasts, more akin to the Primarchs than any Space Marine. Unlike most chapters who recruit from human populations, Chimeras are homunculi, false humans created through a combination of warpcraft and arcane science. Chimeras are superior to Space Marines in many ways, naturally possessing most of the biological augmentations that most members of the Adeptus Astartes undergo perilous surgeries to obtain. By the very nature of their creation, Chimeras are all latent psykers, giving them miraculous healing abilities, capable of regenerating complete organs and limbs [see: Wolverine (X-Men)/ Homunculi (Fullmetal Alchemist)]. However, for every advantage they have over typical Space Marines, Chimeras possess a number of flaws that prevent them from standing on par. Chimeras lack the Black Carapace iconic to the Adeptus Astartes, and cannot use Space Marine grade Powered Armor, instead relying on lower grade suits. Chimeras also lack the ability to use dreadnoughts, as there are no mortally wounded Chimeras, only the living and the dead. As latent psykers, Chimeras are vulnerable to attacks from the aether, and make common use of psychic hoods to protect themselves. Since their abilities are inherently latent, Brothers also lack the ability to focus their powers. There are no psychic Chimeras.

 

Dear lord, that's an ambitious one. :P

I mean, like, really ambitious.

And this is coming from me with my Space-Dwarf-Marines and my Chopping-Limbs-Off-When-We-Die-To-Attach-To-Future-Unfortunates-Marines.

 

The problem I've immediately got with this idea is that there's hardly any actual drawbacks that I can see.

 

Worse armour? Doesn't matter, I'll either grow all my limbs back and be fine or die and get replaced by the next vat-grown clone.

No dreadnoughts? Oh well. Tanks and infantry can do their battlefield work anyway.

That or the failed-experiment shock troops who, from reading your first post, are a 'near-limitless resource'.

No apothecaries? Oh well. Better get on with growing my own freshly-severed arm back.

 

And the all psyker/no psykers bit is plain nonsensical.

I can't make any sense of it whatsoever, unless you're alluding to the idea that they have powers they can't use. :blink:

In which case, why have them at all?

 

The whole regeneration thing, particularly the parts about it being linked to a soul, irks me. It could just be in part that I really don't like Wolverine, but there's other issues too.

If a Chimera is cut in half by, say, a chainsword, and he's still strong enough to regenerate, which half grows back? Both?

What happens if one is decapitated? What grows back? What if one of them loses a finger? Does that create a new Chimera? Or is the soul specifically stored in one part of the body?

 

In short, I'd drop the regenerative stuff, or at least make it a lot slower and not soul-based. ;)

The not-being-human-ever stuff is hook enough for a chapter, I suspect.

 

I'd also reccomend some proper, serious drawbacks, like having the older ones sometimes going competely loopy (somewhat akin to dreadnoughts) or having their regeneration process eat away at their sanity. :D

Or have some troublesome types wondering why they fight to aid humanity if they're not human themselves, maybe. :P

 

EDIT:Sorry if any of that seems harshly worded.

Didn't seem as to-the-point when I typed it up, haha.

Chimeras do not have psychic librarians, whether they have librarians at all depends on how I choose to develop them. Chimeras do not have apothecaries. They regenerate of their own accord and they possess no gene-seed. Chimeras are inherently introverted as a Chapter, seeing the best way to disguise the fact that they are not true humans by simply not talking with other humans or Space Marines. This may vary depending on whether or not their relationship with the Inquisition is close or distant. This, in of itself, is a huge determining factor with how the chapter will carry itself in secret, hiding from everyone, including or excluding some of the most powerful men and women in the Imperium. This also determines their equipment. They lack Power Armor proper, using suits more akin to Inquisitors and the Sisters of Battle, Tactical Dreadnought Armor, and Dreadnought Armor.

 

Wait, so they don't get Astartes power armour, but can wear Terminator armour?

Or have I misunderstood?

 

Lastly, whilst Chimeras is a decent enough name, I rather dislike the use of the word homunculi. It's a bit too Dark Eldar-y.

And if people are telling you your idea is too close to that Full Metal Alchemist thing*, it might be a good idea to use a name change to create some distance, or at least the illusion thereof. ;)

 

*It might be, in all honesty, since I have no idea and can't be bothered looking it up on account of being tired. :P

 

 

It's not neccesarily a bad concept, in and of itself.

I'm not sure about some of it though - if they can't keep a full chapter's worth of these creatures alive, would they bother continuing the experiment? Or would it be too much hassle?

Conversely, if it's any real success, then it's not really fitting in with the Cursed Founding, and doesn't really explain why there aren't more Chimeras or their successors out there.

 

Good luck with this idea, though.

It's going to take a lot of work to make it work, but I don't doubt you're up to the challenge.

[Donkey Kong]

Hiya, Ace!

 

First think I can tell from your reply is that I need to update that first post a bit, my bad :nuke: .

 

The drawback was something I addressed in a later post. Plainly speaking, the homunculi fall apart if they don't maintain a certain state of mind. They must actively hold themselves together or else they fall apart or degenerate into a monster. The "all psyker" bit ties into this as that latent power is what holds them together and also allows them to regenerate. Their psychic ability is regeneration, they just can't do anything more. Also, because it's a state of mind issue, things like shock from particularly bad and traumatic wounds will result in degeneration. The armor issue is a typo on my part. They use power armor like Inquisitors and Sisters of Battle. The current outline is in Post 27. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

By the way, the Dark Eldar Haemonculi are doing it wrong.

[Arkangilos]

Hiya, Ace!

 

First think I can tell from your reply is that I need to update that first post a bit, my bad :nuke: .

 

The drawback was something I addressed in a later post. Plainly speaking, the homunculi fall apart if they don't maintain a certain state of mind. They must actively hold themselves together or else they fall apart or degenerate into a monster. The "all psyker" bit ties into this as that latent power is what holds them together and also allows them to regenerate. Their psychic ability is regeneration, they just can't do anything more. Also, because it's a state of mind issue, things like shock from particularly bad and traumatic wounds will result in degeneration. The armor issue is a typo on my part. They use power armor like Inquisitors and Sisters of Battle. The current outline is in Post 27. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

By the way, the Dark Eldar Haemonculi are doing it wrong.

 

BTW, please don't think I don't like it.

 

So how would they react with space marines such as the Ultramarines or Blood Angels?

[Donkey Kong]

They would be aloof, condescending if they even bothered to acknowledge them. Chimeras are an exclusively Inquisitorial unit, much like the Grey Knights, although their expertise is not as focused and the Inquisitors who know about them are not as numerous, and the number they willingly serve even less. Think of them like Titan Princeps who need to maintain their aloof, holier-than-thou manner in order to protect themselves from being overwhelmed by the machine spirit.

 

, I can't think of what the Chimeras should exactly look like. They are artificial humans, so they should look largely the same. There are no distinguishing features for psykers, and the only sort of official oddity I can think of to represent being "touched" by the Warp are Cadian purple eyes. I already decided that they are about a head shorter than average space marines, standing around 6'5'', giving them a sort of "short-man's syndrome" appearance. I do not know whether I want their arrogance to be matched by their appearance, or contested by it.

[Ace Debonair]

The current outline is in Post 27. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

Oops. ^_^

 

I'll take a proper look at post 27 later then, haha.

[Ace Debonair]

EDIT:

Excuse the double post.

 

I did promise I'd look in later.

-Homunculi anatomy/ physiology: Functional space marine implants minus black carapace naturally present, latent psykers incapable of further concentrating powers, connection to the warp allows for near instantaneous regeneration

-Homunculi are capable of regeneration so long as the mind and soul have the will to continue to exist.

 

It's an interesting idea. I still say it'd be cool to have the occasional case where it slowly drives the more senior ones mad, though. :P

The closer the experiment to failure, the more reasonable the idea becomes. At least to me. ;)

 

Chapter Organization

-Under-strength

-Between 4 and 6 full strength codex battle companies at any given time

 

How many of the 'failed experiment' things would they have?

Just curious.

 

Chapter Cult

-Believe themselves to be superior to other space marines

-Chaplains maintain strength of mind to ensure spiritual and, by relation, physical well-being

Gene-Seed

-No Gene-Seed

-Venerate all Primarchs

Whilst the arrogant approach would probably work well, there's an opportunity for a lot of fun here.

For instance, if it were me, I'd have the Chimeras not arrogant in and of themselves, if that makes sense.

 

I'd have everyone else connected to the project extremely boastful of them, and constantly talking about the superior nature of the Chimeras, but have the Chapter itself take a very detached, neutral view of themselves and everything around them, recognizing that their strengths are somewhat counterbalanced by weaknesses that other Astartes don't have.

 

I'd also have them take a dim view of the fact that unlike other Astartes, they were never human, and possibly very slightly bitter about the fact they are literally a race of living weapons.

 

That'd be fun. :lol:

[Donkey Kong]

It's an interesting idea. I still say it'd be cool to have the occasional case where it slowly drives the more senior ones mad, though. :(

The closer the experiment to failure, the more reasonable the idea becomes. At least to me. ;)

 

:) But, if the experiment's a failure, then it's a failed experiment, and then it's a legitimate chimera instead of a Chimera.

 

How many of the 'failed experiment' things would they have?

Just curious.

 

Hundreds. THOUSANDS! Ahem, well, a lot.

 

Whilst the arrogant approach would probably work well, there's an opportunity for a lot of fun here.

For instance, if it were me, I'd have the Chimeras not arrogant in and of themselves, if that makes sense.

 

I'd have everyone else connected to the project extremely boastful of them, and constantly talking about the superior nature of the Chimeras, but have the Chapter itself take a very detached, neutral view of themselves and everything around them, recognizing that their strengths are somewhat counterbalanced by weaknesses that other Astartes don't have.

 

I'd also have them take a dim view of the fact that unlike other Astartes, they were never human, and possibly very slightly bitter about the fact they are literally a race of living weapons.

 

That'd be fun. ;)

 

That would tie them in with being more aloof, and I could get behind that. However, wouldn't being a living weapon be a compliment under these circumstances? They're not human, and they never were. But, they're the Inquisitor's living weapons, even more so than the Deathwatch, the Exorcists, and even the Grey Knights. I really couldn't see them being bitter about it. Also, how would you tie that in with the idea that they need to actively maintain holding themselves together? Would it work if it was just their latent psychic ability and as an added defect the Chimeras cannot sleep without falling apart and degenerating? I think that could actually work, with stress, anger, and focus holding them together, while feelings that break their concentration like pain and blunt trauma throw them off.

 

Ultimately, the question is: Under what circumstances should a homunculus be incapable of regeneration?

This ties into my idea of the homunculus having to actively hold themselves together and whether or not I should even bother with that, and whether or not they are vulnerable to turning into actual chimera beasts.

[Ace Debonair]

It's an interesting idea. I still say it'd be cool to have the occasional case where it slowly drives the more senior ones mad, though.

The closer the experiment to failure, the more reasonable the idea becomes. At least to me.

 

But, if the experiment's a failure, then it's a failed experiment, and then it's a legitimate chimera instead of a Chimera.

 

Cursed founding, dude.

It's not meant to be a runaway success. ;)

 

How many of the 'failed experiment' things would they have?

Just curious.

 

Hundreds. THOUSANDS! Ahem, well, a lot.

 

So... doesn't that rather overwhelm the disadvantage of having less marines?

 

That would tie them in with being more aloof, and I could get behind that. However, wouldn't being a living weapon be a compliment under these circumstances? They're not human, and they never were. But, they're the Inquisitor's living weapons, even more so than the Deathwatch, the Exorcists, and even the Grey Knights. I really couldn't see them being bitter about it. Also, how would you tie that in with the idea that they need to actively maintain holding themselves together? Would it work if it was just their latent psychic ability and as an added defect the Chimeras cannot sleep without falling apart and degenerating? I think that could actually work, with stress, anger, and focus holding them together, while feelings that break their concentration like pain and blunt trauma throw them off.

 

Well, they're being ordered about by humans, who could be seen to basically hold their humanity over the Chimeras as sort of a proof of the Emperor's favour.

Arguably Astartes are in the same boat as the Chapter, but the point to consider here is that other Space Marines were once human. They volunteered to sacrifice that humanity and join the fight. The Chimeras might be a bit annoyed about the lack of choice on their part.

 

You can discount that idea entirely, of course. Would make for some fun writing, though. :D

 

Ultimately, the question is: Under what circumstances should a homunculus be incapable of regeneration?

This ties into my idea of the homunculus having to actively hold themselves together and whether or not I should even bother with that, and whether or not they are vulnerable to turning into actual chimera beasts.

I'd say wounds that wouldn't kill a normal Astartes are wounds a Chimera can recover from, provided they're motivated enough.

If they're decapitated, for instance, that should probably serve to kill them.

 

I'd keep the failures as failures and the successes as successes, myself.

Losing the regen ability when they lose focus would be enough, without them coming over all monster-y. :P

[Brother Augustine]

Throwing my two cents in here.

 

First off, this is a really cool idea and I think it has the potential to be friggin' awesome. That being said, it does need a more serious drawback, or like the others have stated it would be done more often. The Imperium is in the habit of spamming whatever works, even if it doesn't work well. Personal belief, the more powerful physical regeneration is, the more potent mental degradation should be. After all, have you ever seen a Regenerating character that could honestly be called sane? (If so, point me that way, it will be interesting to see something new.)

 

Secondly, the human race, particularly (and perhaps ironically) the Space Marines, are notoriously xenophobic and see anything that screws with human DNA as blasphemy (unless it works of course). My point being that these guys are going to have poor relations with other Space Marines, especially the "pure" ones like the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Red Scorpions. These relations will probably worsen when the Chimeras get offended and snap back at the Space Marines, potentially revealing their true nature, at which point it all goes to the Warp and bolt rounds start flying everywhere, and your shiny new Chapter is a puddle of goo on the floor. My point being they are probably going to avoid Space Marines if possible, and keep to themselves as much as they can when it isn't. This will of course rankle their pride that they have to hide from people who should be their allies, which can help lead us back to point 1 and hasten their path to madness.

 

Thirdly, the regeneration should be more limited with smaller wounds recovering nigh instantaneously, while limbs and such grow back over a matter of days to weeks. Otherwise, you have guys shrugging off glancing blows from lascannons and that just starts to get silly, IMHO. Also, take into account that this kind of regeneration would render them effectively immortal as their cells constantly regrow, resulting in warriors that never age as opposed to ones that age very slowly. You might consider that the marines regenerative abilities while prodigious, shorten their overall life spans as the body, no matter how ingrained in the warp was not meant to handle that kind of energy. (To use another anime reference, the Kyuubi effect and Tsunade's super-healing jutsu in Naruto, which completely heal the respective party but shorten the shinobi's lifespan with each usage.)

 

Of course this is just my two cents, and you can feel free to ignore it, I just thought it might be helpful.

[Ace Debonair]

That's two for madness. :lol:

 

I think the idea with the regeneration at the moment is that the individual can only stand to regen so much before their spirit gives up on life altogether and they just stop working.

[Brother Augustine]

Yeah, that could work if their regen stays in the whole "based on their state of mind" thing. Also, possibly consider that if they regenerate in a particularly spiteful, angry, hateful state of mind that the regeneration is not...proper. Perhaps a brother who feels betrayed by the Imperium or his "brother" Astartes, might instead of regrowing an arm, grow a mutated claw or something. Then they would have to be ever vigilant of their own regeneration.

[Donkey Kong]

Thanks for the replies Ace, Augustine.

 

So... doesn't that rather overwhelm the disadvantage of having less marines?

 

Not really. They're not Death Company or Wulfen. They can't be controlled. Their use as forward troops is more comparable to waves of Tyranid gaunts than anything else. Not to mention the countless more that aren't contained and need to be euthanized before they can be utilized.

 

Well, they're being ordered about by humans, who could be seen to basically hold their humanity over the Chimeras as sort of a proof of the Emperor's favour.

Arguably Astartes are in the same boat as the Chapter, but the point to consider here is that other Space Marines were once human. They volunteered to sacrifice that humanity and join the fight. The Chimeras might be a bit annoyed about the lack of choice on their part.

 

I can see some resentment to being ordered around by humans, but only if they stay arrogant. I don't really see the latter part though.

 

These relations will probably worsen when the Chimeras get offended and snap back at the Space Marines, potentially revealing their true nature, at which point it all goes to the Warp and bolt rounds start flying everywhere, and your shiny new Chapter is a puddle of goo on the floor. My point being they are probably going to avoid Space Marines if possible, and keep to themselves as much as they can when it isn't. This will of course rankle their pride that they have to hide from people who should be their allies, which can help lead us back to point 1 and hasten their path to madness.

 

I can see that.

 

You might consider that the marines regenerative abilities while prodigious, shorten their overall life spans as the body, no matter how ingrained in the warp was not meant to handle that kind of energy. (To use another anime reference, the Kyuubi effect and Tsunade's super-healing jutsu in Naruto, which completely heal the respective party but shorten the shinobi's lifespan with each usage.)

 

You're lucky I got to that part of the anime before giving up (the plot stopped happening), so I know the reference. However, that doesn't line up with your entire suggestion because that was more or less instantaneous.

 

I don't particularly like the idea that the mutation can backfire, though.

 

Overall, I think I need to settle on what I want, because lots of these suggestions work, but only if I take the Chimeras in a certain direction.

 

Here's what I know I want:

Origins:

-Twenty First Founding, sanctioned by the High Lords of Terra

-Connected to the Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and Radical sects of the Inquisition

-Homunculi, ready made space marines, no gene-seed, but fully functional enhancement, no black carapace, and no dreadnoughts

-Neigh instantaneous regenerative capabilities through latent psychic ability: This is my visual inspiration.

-Failed homunculi are chimeras, beasts that are part real and part daemonic

Homeworld:

-Fleet based, scientists are kept to conduct all maintenance

Organizaion:

-Under strength by Codex standards for no reason other than difficulty in creating them

-No Librarians, no Apothecaries, no Techmarines

Combat Doctrine:

-Take challenges head on since they're functionally invulnurable

 

Here's what I want to decide:

Origins:

-What is the drawback of being a regenerative homunculus? I know you're both suggesting insanity, but I find it odd. Regeneration reducing the life span works, but then to what degree? Also, should it cause gradual degradation?

-What are the limitations of regeneration? Should they only need their mind intact? Does that make them too much like zombies?

-Why are they named Chimeras? Chimera is what the failure monster is called, would the scientists do it, or would they choose the name?

-How should they look? I know this one is a bit odd, but I think it matters. They don't have a black carapace, so they don't have the odd no-ribs appearance of the space marines. I think they should look similar since they're all grown by the same process, but that's not necessarily going to be true. I wrote one being a head shorter (~6'7'') although this is just throwing things out there. How should they be named? Funnily enough, I'm running to another anime again, in this case Gundam Wing with characters named numbers (ie: Duo, Trowa, Quatre)

-What color are they? I initially imagined them being orange, but I could imagine them being Death Guard white, plain ceramite, without any distinguishing marks should they view themselves as living weapons

Homeworld:

-How are new scientists brought into the Chapter? Are they men and women recruited by the Inquisitors supporting it? How many Inquisitors would need to be collecting people for it?

-What precautions are taken in the creation process?

Maybe a bit cleaner, but “made from dust” all the same

-Tying in with the previous point, what are the beasts? Chimeras are part daemonic. Are they stable? How dangerous are they? Are scientists killed by their failed creations?

Combat Doctrine:

-How are they utilized by the Inquisition? They're kept secret, hence no Techmarines since they can't be sent to Mars to be trained. They can't be used in the Deathwatch. They're not specialized to fight daemons or xenos, should they be?

Cult:

-How do they view themselves? Are they arrogant and superior or something else?

Gene-Seed

-Should there be any hints at what it's derived from? Should they try and disguise themselves as Ultramarine successors?

Battlecry

-Should they have one?

 

I can't move forward until I know how I'm going to outline them. If you would like to suggest an answer to any of my questions or comment on any of my points, I'd love to hear it. I'd also love to hear any additional questions and suggested answers to them, just so I could develop them further. I appreciate everything that's been said to me so far, I just can't do anything with it until I know how I'm going to do it. Put simply, I can't say whether or not something is in character if I don't know the character. It's a rather sad spot to be in for my own IA :lol: .

[Ace Debonair]

So... doesn't that rather overwhelm the disadvantage of having less marines?

 

Not really. They're not Death Company or Wulfen. They can't be controlled. Their use as forward troops is more comparable to waves of Tyranid gaunts than anything else. Not to mention the countless more that aren't contained and need to be euthanized before they can be utilized.

 

I mean in that you have additional numbers of stuff, however dangerous/unpredictable, to attack targets and prevent risking the lives of your limited numbers of Astartes.

 

Well, they're being ordered about by humans, who could be seen to basically hold their humanity over the Chimeras as sort of a proof of the Emperor's favour.

Arguably Astartes are in the same boat as the Chapter, but the point to consider here is that other Space Marines were once human. They volunteered to sacrifice that humanity and join the fight. The Chimeras might be a bit annoyed about the lack of choice on their part.

 

I can see some resentment to being ordered around by humans, but only if they stay arrogant. I don't really see the latter part though.

 

Put that down to a difference in writing styles, perhaps.

I'd definitely take them the 'reflective, sombre and dour, scarily efficient, unnaturally blank-faced and almost worringly perceptive' personality route.

 

Hmm. At this rate I'm going to have to make a successor chapter. :lol:

Overall, I think I need to settle on what I want, because lots of these suggestions work, but only if I take the Chimeras in a certain direction.

 

Agreed. I think a bunch of the ideas I've put forward probably don't gel so well with the Chapter you're envisioning.

But hey, they're out there now for you to use if you see fit.

And for me to steal back if you discard them, haha. :)

 

Here's what I want to decide:

Origins:

-What is the drawback of being a regenerative homunculus? I know you're both suggesting insanity, but I find it odd. Regeneration reducing the life span works, but then to what degree? Also, should it cause gradual degradation?

 

I remember people getting iffy when I suggested one of the Chapters I was working on should have a limited lifespan, on the basis that Astartes generally don't die of old age.

...Although these technically aren't Astartes, are they? Touché.

 

-What are the limitations of regeneration? Should they only need their mind intact? Does that make them too much like zombies?

That seems a little overpowered to me. I dunno. Maybe they should be able to regenerate almost anything, but it'd require a truly insane level of willpower, and probably leave them exhausted, and therefore much less likely to regenerate from another killing blow.

 

-Why are they named Chimeras? Chimera is what the failure monster is called, would the scientists do it, or would they choose the name?

Hmm.

The failed monsters are still their 'brothers', in a sense. They could take the name as a reminder of what they essentially are, but again I'm not sure how well that idea gels with your vision.

 

Informal nickname, perhaps? Gradually gets used more and more because 'Neo-Primarch Project' is a hell of a clumsy name for a unit of warriors?

 

-How should they look? I know this one is a bit odd, but I think it matters. They don't have a black carapace, so they don't have the odd no-ribs appearance of the space marines. I think they should look similar since they're all grown by the same process, but that's not necessarily going to be true. I wrote one being a head shorter (~6'7'') although this is just throwing things out there. How should they be named? Funnily enough, I'm running to another anime again, in this case Gundam Wing with characters named numbers (ie: Duo, Trowa, Quatre)

 

So much anime stuff. ;)

Shorter and possibly leaner than your average marine would be fine, I reckon.

 

Cult:

-How do they view themselves? Are they arrogant and superior or something else?

I'd go the something else route and stress the non-humanity of them something ridiculous. Gives them plenty of inner conflict and could be a lot of fun to write.

But if that's not to your taste, I reserve the right to steal back and modify my suggestion for a regular Astartes Chapter. :)

 

Gene-Seed

-Should there be any hints at what it's derived from? Should they try and disguise themselves as Ultramarine successors?

Battlecry

-Should they have one?

Nope to the disguise idea, maybe to the 'taken from genestock X' idea.

Probably nope to the battlecry, unless you come up with something really fitting.

 

I can't move forward until I know how I'm going to outline them. If you would like to suggest an answer to any of my questions or comment on any of my points, I'd love to hear it. I'd also love to hear any additional questions and suggested answers to them, just so I could develop them further. I appreciate everything that's been said to me so far, I just can't do anything with it until I know how I'm going to do it. Put simply, I can't say whether or not something is in character if I don't know the character. It's a rather sad spot to be in for my own IA .

Ah. Stonebound Syndrome. I feel your pain, buddy.

 

Well, if you can work out what personality you want for the Chimeras, I'll stop making contrary suggestions and do my best to help you push it forward. ^_^

[Donkey Kong]

This looks good Ace. There's a lot of stuff here I can use.

 

I'd definitely take them the 'reflective, sombre and dour, scarily efficient, unnaturally blank-faced and almost worringly perceptive' personality route.

 

Hmm. At this rate I'm going to have to make a successor chapter. :P

 

If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to use this. It's almost too funny. Perhaps not as gloomy as you present, but scarily efficient, blank-faced, and perceptive, but maybe almost childishly naive and honest.

 

I remember people getting iffy when I suggested one of the Chapters I was working on should have a limited lifespan, on the basis that Astartes generally don't die of old age.

...Although these technically aren't Astartes, are they? Touché.

 

Touché. But, to be fair, in terms of ageing, I would imagine to homunculi to be better than the space marines ;) .

 

That seems a little overpowered to me. I dunno. Maybe they should be able to regenerate almost anything, but it'd require a truly insane level of willpower, and probably leave them exhausted, and therefore much less likely to regenerate from another killing blow.

 

This is probably the best way of tackling it. I'll be using this.

 

Hmm.

The failed monsters are still their 'brothers', in a sense. They could take the name as a reminder of what they essentially are, but again I'm not sure how well that idea gels with your vision.

 

Informal nickname, perhaps? Gradually gets used more and more because 'Neo-Primarch Project' is a hell of a clumsy name for a unit of warriors?

 

It ties them perfectly to that perceptiveness you mentioned earlier.

 

Shorter and possibly leaner than your average marine would be fine, I reckon.

 

That works.

 

I'd go the something else route and stress the non-humanity of them something ridiculous. Gives them plenty of inner conflict and could be a lot of fun to write.

But if that's not to your taste, I reserve the right to steal back and modify my suggestion for a regular Astartes Chapter. ;)

 

I think they would like a clear purpose.

 

Nope to the disguise idea, maybe to the 'taken from genestock X' idea.

Probably nope to the battlecry, unless you come up with something really fitting.

 

Alright.

 

So, the current outline:

Origins:

-Twenty First Founding

-Sanctioned by the High Lords of Terra to attempt recreating the Primarchs

-Researched by the Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Astra Telepathica

-Initial results yield monsters known as chimeras for possessing a varied genome and daemonic characteristic

-Successful homunculi created motivating scientists to continue working and attracts outside attention

-Homunculi anatomy/ physiology: Functional space marine implants, minus black carapace, naturally present, shorter and leaner than average space marines, latent psykers incapable of further concentrating powers, latent psychic ability channeled through willpower allows for near instantaneous regeneration, however they quickly exhaust This is my visual inspiration.

-Radical Inquisitors push scientists to continue working on the project in secret after the High Lords lose faith in it

Homeworld:

-Fleet based

-Maintain positions in empty space between Imperial Sectors

-Teams belonging to the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Astra Telepahtica maintain constant presence

-Inquisitorial advocates recruit scientific minds to join existing Teams

Organizaion:

-Under-strength

-Between 4 and 6 full strength codex battle companies at any given time

-No Librarians, no Apothecaries, no Techmarines

-Record keeping done by Imperial scientists and Inquisitorial servants

-Armory maintenance conducted by Adeptus Mechanicus

-Chaplains maintain mental strength

Combat Doctrine:

-Tackle obstacles head on

-Utilize failed creations as forward shock units

Chapter Cult

-Believe in a kinship with the chimeras

-View themselves as the Emperor's Living Weapons

Gene-Seed

-No Gene-Seed

-Venerate all Primarchs

 

There are obviously still decisions to make. What should they actually look like, not just the black expression? Should they all look similar? Should they be handsome as some space marines are described, ugly, or unremarkable? Heraldry is another issue. I'm debating between Orange and Off-White (Pre-Heresy Death Guard). The Chapter symbol I've decided would be a double faced animal (middle column, second down), the only issue is whether it should be a two headed lion or a lion one way and a ram the other. The other fact is which way is facing which. I could imagine the ram facing forward, charging, and the lion facing back, giving a noble impression to those they fight around. Although, that kind of disguise doesn't line up with the way of thinking I've chosen to use.

 

Hooray for progress :) !

[Brother Augustine]

Sorry my bad, I don't speak clearly.

I meant that if the regeneration is instantaneous, then maybe it should shorten their lifespan in return.

[Ace Debonair]

This looks good Ace. There's a lot of stuff here I can use.

 

I'd definitely take them the 'reflective, sombre and dour, scarily efficient, unnaturally blank-faced and almost worringly perceptive' personality route.

 

Hmm. At this rate I'm going to have to make a successor chapter. ;)

 

If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to use this. It's almost too funny. Perhaps not as gloomy as you present, but scarily efficient, blank-faced, and perceptive, but maybe almost childishly naive and honest.

Happy to be of help. :)

 

Hmm.

The failed monsters are still their 'brothers', in a sense. They could take the name as a reminder of what they essentially are, but again I'm not sure how well that idea gels with your vision.

 

Informal nickname, perhaps? Gradually gets used more and more because 'Neo-Primarch Project' is a hell of a clumsy name for a unit of warriors?

 

It ties them perfectly to that perceptiveness you mentioned earlier.

Granted, but I wasn't sure you wanted to take their personality in that direction. :P