Lists fit for purpose...

[Cockroach]

I always see a lot of all-comer lists on here and I've got my own all-comer list with variations but theres other armies lists I seem to struggle against, one of them being a big bug force.

I need some help building a list to smash my mates very harsh 'nid army. He always runs the same list so it shouldnt be too hard with your guys help.

His force usually looks something like:

 

4X Trygon

2X Tervigon (the thing that spawns units)

1or2X Carnifex

3X Venomthrope

shedload of termigants

In bigger games he will take a Tyrant too

...Something like that.

 

So a couple of initial thoughts I think could be winners: Mephiston or Epistolary (SoS+Force weapon),

A large unit of Sternguard making use of the hellfire rounds (wound on 2+),

T.H/S.S Terminators W/Reclusiarch either in LR or deepstrike,

 

Some ideas i'm not sure about: 3X Dev squad with missile launchers or Predators? Vindicators?

Attack Bikes with MM or Baal Preds?

General Troops? Any DOA? Tactical squads with missile launcher or Las for more Dakka?

 

Let me know what you think and what you've tried and found to be successful/unsuccessful,

cheers.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Well thats a pretty illegal force.

 

Are you sure its carnifexes and 4 trygons? Thats 5 Heavy Support choices!

 

Im going to assume its something like:

 

2-3 Terivgons

3 Venomthropes

2-6 Squads of Gants

3 Trygons

 

Or something in that area. :huh:

 

 

Things to consider:

 

All his monsters are only 3+ Armour. 10 Devas with 4 Missile Launchers is only 210pts.

 

You should start by taking out the venomthropes with the Missiles which will mean you can take his other monsters out without their cover bonus.

 

There are also a few good combat units to take out his big stuff. Look at Assault Terminators, Death Company with Chaplains and Vets loaded out with lots of stuff. (Sternguard are also excellent!)

 

Gaunts should be easy peasy with an assault squad or two. (Or even tac squads! :lol: )

[Cockroach]

Any reason for the 10 man devs?

I was thinking 5 man Devs for 140... I mean, if he gets a monstrous creature to them theyre dead anyway.

 

What about these fast attack choices dude?

Are we saying man power over armour?

[OoZo]

be glad he doesnt use doom of malentai!!! that is one broken char!! <_<

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Any reason for the 10 man devs?

I was thinking 5 man Devs for 140... I mean, if he gets a monstrous creature to them theyre dead anyway.

 

What about these fast attack choices dude?

Are we saying man power over armour?

 

 

Eh mixed bag. Nids have an easier time with Infantry then vehicles.

 

I would consider something like:

 

Reclusiarch with Jump Pack

 

Priest with Jump Pack

 

2-3 10 Man Assault Squads Dual melta Pfist.

 

2-3 Baal preds with HBSS

2-3 ~8man Dev Squads with 4 Missiles.

 

 

Depending on points.

 

Its got alot of nice shooting. You could even use the Baal Preds off the bat to gun down the thropes. They can then be used to block off Devs.

 

The list remains fair viable against more opponents. With the ability to DOA in the troops or hoof it across the board as needed. But then we are getting more into lists and less into general things to throw against them.

[Krakev]

Sure it was 4 Trygons and not 4 Hive Guard?

[I am Legion]

This weekend I played a 2500 point game of BA Vs Nids. Granted it wasn't all monstrous creatures, but it might as well have been. 3 trygons, and bunch of stealers, and 36 warriors, plus warrior prime.

I used an all mech army, with one squad of honour guard with JPs and 4 PGs. The game was close, but in the end I was running circles around them. The way I deal with nids (and everything else) is simply having as many assault cannons as I can manage to fit into the army. This time I also used 2 whirlwinds for fun, but I prefer small dev squads instead. I dont use special characters cause they are too expensive, but I hear Mephiston is like a one man army against monstrous creatures.

 

Oh I also had a storm raven with 10 DC and reclusiarch, 2x 5 man sternguard with a priest in razor with AC, 2 were armed with c-PG, and a FLamer. The PF didnt help this time since trygons strike first, and they simply wipe out the squads. but that poison ammo really helped. wish I had more guys in that squad.

 

Hope that helps.

[Cockroach]

Krakev, I think BOB was right with 3... they were deffo Trygons. 6 wounds, toughness 6, nasty things! He backs them up with the venomthropes...

Ah yes, I forgot... theres also a couple of zoanthropes in his list too.

 

So I'm starting to see a trend with the Baal Preds (I take it thats what Legion meant)... Do you guys think its a more reliable option than 3 MM Attack bikes?

I take it the DC didnt fare too well against those monstrous creatures, negating the FNP and all? This is the same reason I dont think priests will be much use.

 

So to start putting a 1750pt list together:

 

Mephiston

6 X Sternguard in RB w/asscan 240

10X RAS w/PF 2X PG 245

10X RAS w/PF 2X PG 245

2X Baal Pred 230

3X Attack Bikes w/MM 150

5X Dev w/4 Missile 130

5X Dev w/4 Missile 130

5X Dev w/4 Missile 130

 

Look any good?

Shame I couldnt fit any THSS termis in there with a Reclusiarch. Wouldnt mind people tweaking the list though, to make it as unpleasant as possible for my pal!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Look any good?

 

Plasma guns on the RAS make me sad in my happy place. *tear* Unless they are in a rhino then rock on.

 

I also think htere is something to be said for more then just 5 for the devs in that they give you some wounds to take hits on. But against this nid list not much is shooting...

 

Depends just how much you tailor your list I guess.

[Cockroach]

haha.. I just see the potential to DoA and rapid fire the PGs causing a possible 4 wounds as opposed to the meltas 2. But what're the benefits of the PGs being in a rhino?

 

As for shooting, I think the last time we played... only the zoanthropes and gants got to shoot. I'm trying to squeeze as much fire power into the list as possible and so would have a hard time dropping something to beef up the Devs numbers.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Dreadnoughts, dreadnoughts and more dreadnoughts!

 

Take all 11 of them and mash his face!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

haha.. I just see the potential to DoA and rapid fire the PGs causing a possible 4 wounds as opposed to the meltas 2. But what're the benefits of the PGs being in a rhino?

 

As for shooting, I think the last time we played... only the zoanthropes and gants got to shoot. I'm trying to squeeze as much fire power into the list as possible and so would have a hard time dropping something to beef up the Devs numbers.

 

You can hide inside and pop the top.

 

 

I guess I could see that but I was thinking of the RAS as more being there to sweep Termagaunts.

 

I suppose this is partly my background as taking all-rounders as opposed to tailored lists.

[Brother_Byhlli]

haha.. I just see the potential to DoA and rapid fire the PGs causing a possible 4 wounds as opposed to the meltas 2. But what're the benefits of the PGs being in a rhino?

 

As for shooting, I think the last time we played... only the zoanthropes and gants got to shoot. I'm trying to squeeze as much fire power into the list as possible and so would have a hard time dropping something to beef up the Devs numbers.

 

Putting plasma guns on a unit which is an assault unit (and we know that Assault Squads are assault units - the clue's in the name!) will earn you me buying a plane ticket to wherever you are giving a Chinese burn on both arms and at least one of your legs. And I give a mean Chinese burn.

 

Don't. Ever. Put. Plasma guns. On. An. Assault. Squad.

 

Ever.

[knife&fork]

Don't. Ever. Put. Plasma guns. On. An. Assault. Squad.

 

Ever.

 

Plasma guns help assault squads to put the hurt on MEQ,TEQ and monstrous creatures, something they normally struggle with.

I usually take a JP assault squad with 2*PG in mech/DoA combo lists. Or a PG in a razor back assault squad.

 

 

 

I'm not completely up to date on tyranids, are they usually immune to instant death?

[Cockroach]

Yeah, remember this list is strictly tailored to kill big bugs.

 

A couple of things:

You can't assault when deepstriking but can rapid fire

I'm not about to go assaulting a trygon that may have venomthropes around it. Thatd be one dead assault squad.

Plus, theres no priest in the squad, so they'd be hitting on 4 and wounding on 6.

The Ass squads are purely there for objective capturing and maybe knock the last couple of wounds off a monstrous creature, the PGs superior range over the melta will help too.

 

What do you think to dropping an Ass squad for more sternguard?

 

@knife, just browsing over the Nid summary sheet, all the monstrous creatures are toughness 6. So, no instant death.

[Drunken Angel]

All that shooting will only do so much if the MC's are bubble wrapped in gant shields, they will take their 4+ cover save and march across the board, what gets past the 4+ cover has to do it something like 5-6 times?. Unless he is foolish and exposes the MC's across the board you just dont have enough fire power to weaken them before combat. Shooting can help for sure but there is another way.

 

Assault them .... Big Orange has a good counter recipe, its a multi assault. From memory its a dread with blood talons and a unit (RAS VV HG) with an Epistolary I guess you could put mephiston in there instead

Anyway charge the unit put the dread on the gants to force a pile of wounds place the librarian in B2B with the MC and use Sang sword and force weapon.

 

You are forcing a load of wounds on the gants since they are probably no retreat they take even more wounds at the end of combat some of them may have to spill over onto the MC then the horde is in trouble, especialy if the force weapon goes off.

 

This works on the trygons and tervigons the carnifexs and venomthropes I am not sure of but it should be easy enough to stay away from the carnifex and thropes till the others are sorted out since fex's dont shoot much usually.

[knife&fork]

@knife, just browsing over the Nid summary sheet, all the monstrous creatures are toughness 6. So, no instant death.

 

Thought so, immunity to instant death via force weapons is what I was after :D

[Brother_Byhlli]

Run the numbers on hitting a Trygon Prime in the face repeatedly with a Death Company Dreadnought. I got bored of numbers and sat rolling dice for an hour a couple of nights ago, for giggles. The Dreadnought wins combat without taking a hit back more times than not.

 

Run combat with Death Company and Lemartes against Genestealers. Almost every time, Death Company will win that combat.

 

If you want to shoot something, why the heck would you take an Assault Squad and limit its combat capacity with plasma guns?

 

I'm largely against taking Tactical Squads, but if your plan revolves around shooting, you should be looking at Tactical Squads, Sternguard with combi-plasma, Honour Guard decked out with four plasma guns and Devastator Squads. There's never a good reason for putting plasma guns on an Assault Squad. They're intended to assault. So give them assault weapons.

 

@knife, just browsing over the Nid summary sheet, all the monstrous creatures are toughness 6. So, no instant death.

 

Thought so, immunity to instant death via force weapons is what I was after :)

 

Toughness has no bearing on force weapon instant death.

 

The only defence is Eternal Warrior (or a similar instant death-defying special rule) or an invulnerable save.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I actually ran the numbers on a DC dread charging a trygon in a venomthrope bubble recently.

 

Heres the numbers if you want :)

DC Dready

 

4/1 attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 16/9 wounds

16/9 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 8/9 bonus wounds.

8/9 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 32/81 bonus wounds. (lets stop here since its below 50%)

 

~3 Wounds (248/81)

 

 

I admit its not something I'd generally risk but then I dont really run Talon dreads I dont like them.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I actually ran the numbers on a DC dread charging a trygon in a venomthrope bubble recently.

 

Heres the numbers if you want :)

DC Dready

 

4/1 attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 16/9 wounds

16/9 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 8/9 bonus wounds.

8/9 bonus attacks 1/2 hit 8/9 wound 32/81 bonus wounds. (lets stop here since its below 50%)

 

~3 Wounds (248/81)

 

 

I admit its not something I'd generally risk but then I dont really run Talon dreads I dont like them.

 

Trygon Prime + Venomthrope = 300 points, roughly.

 

Dreadnought = 125 points.

 

I'd say them's good numbers.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Trygon Prime + Venomthrope = 300 points, roughly.

 

Dreadnought = 125 points.

 

I'd say them's good numbers.

 

Sure is thats for sure. I'd avoid charging a dready into a fully alive Trygon :) thats all.