Weapon Allocation

[Morollan]

This is wrong dude.

The strength of the weapon is not important in regards to FNP, even if it is strength 10.

It is the AP of the weapon that is important.

The strength of the weapon just determines how easy it is to wound you. The AP determines whether you get an armour save or not.

If you're allowed an armour save, then you can use FNP. If the AP value of the weapon is lower than your armour save, No save is allowed therefore no FNP rolls can be made.

 

The Strength of the weapon IS important. If it is twice your Toughness then you get no FNP, regardless of the AP.

[JamesI]

cockroach, not entirely correct.

 

1) A weapon that is strenght double or more your toughness does not allow FNP.

 

2) AP 1 and AP2 do not allow FNP. AP3 does, even if you only have 3+ armor. If having no armor disallowed FNP then demons couldn't use FNP.

 

It specifically says FNP can not be used against attacks that never allow armor (such as dangerous terrain and power weapons). AP3 does not disallow all armor, so FNP can be used against it.

 

Ninja'd by Morollan

[Cockroach]

Wow, I just read up on this. I think everyone I know has been playing it slightly wrong for years. What a bizarre ruling! The wording '...or any other wound against which no armour save can ever be taken' I feel is going to cause some arguments down my LGC.

 

My bad.

 

Ignore me Krakev, I talk ^_^.

[Morollan]

It does seem to cause some confusion for some reason. There are a few threads about it so you might want to read them before getting into any arguments. Here's a recent one from the Official Rules forum:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=236131

[Krakev]

'roach, every day is a school day. ^_^

 

Glad there are people on hand to clear these things up, I almost always refer to the rules when playing, but never access B&C from anywhere that there are rules lying around (ie. at work!).

 

I think that, at the end of the day, my want to get something put together to play with will be the leader for which models I use. I've got a PF DC guy with a Bolt Pistol, 2 with Bolters and 2 who are armless. Aside from having to find more Power Weapons, seeing as how the DC box only comes with 1, I'll be spending more time with my Oyumaru working on swords rather than worrying about the Bolter/Bolt Pistol combos.

[Cockroach]

I love how Thade picked up on the word 'ever', it's the first thing I noticed when I read it. It changes the meaning of the entire sentence.

 

I just know some guys I play will be like "but your marines dont EVER get a save from AP3 therefore he's dead"

[JamesI]

I love how Thade picked up on the word 'ever', it's the first thing I noticed when I read it. It changes the meaning of the entire sentence.

 

I just know some guys I play will be like "but your marines dont EVER get a save from AP3 therefore he's dead"

If any of them play Nurgle demons bring up the demon argument. As nurgle demons have no armor save, they can't take FNP then.

[SamaNagol]

Power Fist/Thunder Hammer Death Company should always have bolters.

[Xenith]

I just know some guys I play will be like "but your marines dont EVER get a save from AP3 therefore he's dead"

 

If that's how they want to play, let them know that your models with power weapons ignore armour saves, so never have to take them.

[Krakev]

Power Fist/Thunder Hammer Death Company should always have bolters.

Would have been nice if the models had followed the Chaos Marines box, where you get arms and guns and you glue the buggers on yourself. As it is I'm going to have to hack a Pistol off to put a Bolter on, after hacking the Bolter off another arm...

 

What a waste, poor form GW.

[Fortunate Son]

Actually, your nurgle demons would get FNP roll, as long as they weren't hit with weapons that ignore armor saves.

Versus power weapons or the like (or AP1 or 2), they'd only get to roll the save, not the FNP.

[Morollan]

Actually, your nurgle demons would get FNP roll, as long as they weren't hit with weapons that ignore armor saves.

Versus power weapons or the like (or AP1 or 2), they'd only get to roll the save, not the FNP.

 

I think the argument is that because Plague Bearers have no armour save, if the FNP rule is interpreted that you don't get FNP against any attack that you can't make an armour save against, they would never get FNP.

[JamesI]

Actually, your nurgle demons would get FNP roll, as long as they weren't hit with weapons that ignore armor saves.

Versus power weapons or the like (or AP1 or 2), they'd only get to roll the save, not the FNP.

 

I think the argument is that because Plague Bearers have no armour save, if the FNP rule is interpreted that you don't get FNP against any attack that you can't make an armour save against, they would never get FNP.

Exactly. Is a counter argument to people that say AP3 ignores a marines FNP by saying then demons can never use FNP.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Glad this has been sorted out. It boils down to three rules.

 

Feel No Pain has no effect against:

 

1. Attacks which would normally cause instant death (even for models with the Eternal Warrior special rule)
   
2. Attacks which never allow an armour save (including power weapons, Rending weapons that roll a 6 to wound, Perils of the Warp and dangerous terrain tests)
   
3. AP1 and AP2 weapons
   

 

Edited for formatting

[lgndnmysparetyme]

Well noticed, sir. Good thing, anyway. Infernus pistols are a points-sink in Death Company.

 

:)

 

Anyone having luck using them as can openers?

 

I'm building up a squad now with the intent of using Infernus pistols to kill a transport so I can then assault the squad hiding inside.

 

Anyone having luck with this (good or bad)?

[Xenith]

With the 45 pts it requires to get the 3 pistols you need to statistically kill a rhino, reliably, you may as well get a MM attack bike, you can then shoot the rhino for a few turns before your DC get within 3".

[Deus_Sanguinius]

And you also need 15 DC to unlock the 3 pistols. Quite a heavy investment of points.