Mephiston vs. Thunder Cav.

[Kasil]

I am fairly new to 40k and came across my first opposing unit of thudner cav over the weekend. I charged in Mephiston with S10 and was looking to instakill as many as I could and then hope for the best after that. I landed 5 wounds, he made 5 saves and then proceded to smash Mephiston. Also, the there were only 3 Thunder Cav when he charged, I wasn't foolish enough to charge a deathstar.

 

So, is Mephiston vs. Thunder Cav. just a bad idea? Anybody have a rule of thumb, charge if the unit is only so many? Anybody else have a better experience here where Mephiston kills hundereds of points of thudner cav?

 

As a follow-up, if not mephiston, then what do you throw at Thunder Cav. to put them down?

[Castiel]

If its charge or be charged, then I would charge every time!

[JamesI]

Is it even possible for each Thunder Wolf cavalry model to have a storm shield? I didn't think they could all get them.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

They can all take Storm Shields. Only one can take a Thunder Hammer or other special close-combat weapon.

[JamesI]

They can all take Storm Shields. Only one can take a Thunder Hammer or other special close-combat weapon.

ok, didn't remember. Haven't faced TWolves since Adepticon.

 

Its pretty bad luck for Mephiston to charge in, even with them having storm shields, and not killing some. Did you get unleash rage off as well?

[DV8]

Only one Thunderwolf Cavalry can have a Storm Shield. And yes, why wouldn't you? Preferred Enemy and Unleash Rage make mince meat of Thunderwolf Cavalry.

 

The only time you DON'T want to charge is when there's a character-killing Thunderlord in there (Saga of the Bear, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Thunderwolf Mount). That guy will pound Mephiston into the ground.

 

 

DV8

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

No, on page 90 of the codex, the first bullet point states the following:

• Any Thunderwolf Rider may replace his bolt pistol with:
  -Boltgun.....................................XYZ points per model
  -Plasma Pistol.............................XYZ points per model
  -Storm Shield.............................XYZ points per model
  

[Wysten]

All thunderwolf can take Storm Sheilds. For some reason it lists it under "Any thunderwolf can" and "one thunder wolf can". Hence all thunder wolf have access to stormsheilds, unless theres an FAQ I am not aware about.

 

That being said, repeated taking of Storm sheilds gets really expensive for a Thunder Wolf pack, so if you encounter a full on deathstar, just pour fire onto him, move assualt squads in way of major shooting and support Meths entry.

 

Sounds like you were terribly unlucky though.

[DV8]

My mistake. I don't take Thunderwolves. At any rate, I'd still charge.

 

 

DV8

[The Crimson Cartel]

If its charge or be charged, then I would charge every time!

^

This...

 

-CC

[SamaNagol]

Charge with Mephiston and another unit. Because they cannot instant kill you at T6. You can instant kill them at S10.

 

Yes they have Rending, but they aren't scary to Meph. Get him in b2b with 2 and he will wreck face. Then ensure you get the other unit in b2b with the Saga of the Bear lord and the ThunderCav model with the fist/hammer.

 

Mephiston only cares about high S power weapons. They do not have them in abundance.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Yup. From the sounds of it, you were unlucky. You could reasonably have expected to kill one or two of the Thunderwolves, even if they've all got storm shields. Without storm shields, you'd expect to kill every one of them.

 

I also agree with the mantra that if it's charge or be charged, charge every time.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It would depend upon the specific game situation... Every attack that gets past the stormshields is an insta gib if Sword goes off. If there is a Rune Priest closeby then no way. It's very dependent on the luck of the dice. If Mephiston bounces then some rending attacks and the thunderhammer|power fist means they might even break him. If you can support Mephiston in close combat with a Furioso your odds are suddenly a lot better.

 

TWC are very fast but if you're playing a mech build you can probably keep Mephiston safely tucked away.

 

G :P

[SamaNagol]

Yeh, with mech there is no reason Mephiston should get charged because you can simply close up any lanes that a 60mm enemy base can fit through whilst a 30mm friendly one can still pass easily. Remember they cannot pass within 1" of ANY of your models including vehicles whilst making an assault move.

[overkongen]

Yeh, with mech there is no reason Mephiston should get charged because you can simply close up any lanes that a 60mm enemy base can fit through whilst a 30mm friendly one can still pass easily. Remember they cannot pass within 1" of ANY of your models including vehicles whilst making an assault move.

When making an assault move you may move within 1" of any enemy model as long as you only move into base to base contact with the unit you are assaulting.

[SamaNagol]

Well I suck.

 

Ok, keep those rhino hulls closer than 60mm apart then!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Math hammer.

6/1 attacks 8/9 hit (with rage) 5/6 wound 1/3 fail saves 40/27 ~ 1.5 wounds get through.

Assuming he can charge and Sword you're not looking at too many wounds getting through in the long run. If there are only 2-3 You will be forcing saves on each wolf which may be beneficial in that you could potentially sword out the fist before hand.

 

 

I suppose I would say the following.If there is no rune priest near by and you are at full wounds facing down 2-4 Wolves it may be worth it.

 

 

I am surprised with how pro charging people are. There are times you dont want to charge.

 

Any time Mephiston won't die to shooting in the next turn and he could do something else important. You can force your opponent to waste an extra turn or two on killing him or make a difficult decision.

 

If the charge past Mephiston will be close. It may be worth leaving him and making your opponent risk a long assault instead of getting extra consolidation inches.

 

As above Mephiston can shut off a tight movement lane between impassable terrain for an extra terrain if you are on the backfoot. Though this wont come up too much I suppose.

[Castiel]

I am surprised with how pro charging people are. There are times you dont want to charge.

 

If you're about to be hit by a unit of TWC you want to get all the advantages you can!

[Xenith]

I am surprised with how pro charging people are. There are times you dont want to charge.

Meph is in combat in your opponents next assault phase anyway, the key is denying them the additional attacks for charging.

 

Admittedly, this is a bit silly with wolves, who all have counter attack. Still, better you get more attacks than less.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I am surprised with how pro charging people are. There are times you dont want to charge.

 

If you're about to be hit by a unit of TWC you want to get all the advantages you can!

 

 

I am surprised with how pro charging people are. There are times you dont want to charge.

Meph is in combat in your opponents next assault phase anyway, the key is denying them the additional attacks for charging.

 

Admittedly, this is a bit silly with wolves, who all have counter attack. Still, better you get more attacks than less.

 

 

I did outline a few situations where it might be helpful to not charge. You can force an opponent's decisions with charging as much as you can with not charging. I suppose I was more just saying Hard and Fast rules are rarely a good choice.

[breng77]

I think the argument for not charging is if you feel like you will die in the assault anyway why not force your opponent to...

spend shots or assaults on their turn killing him. If you assault and die all you've accomplished is giving the Cav an extra D6 of movement, so the decision to charge is situational.

[thade]

I'd probably charge, with gusto. Also, with back up. I.E. I'd put at least one tac squad's worth of bolter rounds into them and charge them with whatever else I could (the tac squad if nothing else was in range) so Meph wasn't going in alone. If they had an IC in there, I'd engage it with a tac squad model...unless by weird positioning I could engage him and TW with Meph. (Meph can take a few hits.) The goal is to 'work the unit' and hope to win with a combat resolution and sweep.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I think the argument for not charging is if you feel like you will die in the assault anyway why not force your opponent to...

spend shots or assaults on their turn killing him. If you assault and die all you've accomplished is giving the Cav an extra D6 of movement, so the decision to charge is situational.

 

oh breng you said it so much better then I did! :D

[Brother_Byhlli]

Well I suck.

 

:cuss

[Godhead]

If it is just twc and no IC, then yes charge. If there is an IC, (IE lord with bear) move along, Meph will die.

 

If the lord has a wolf tooth talisman, and there is a rune priest nearby, meph will die.

 

If there are 4+ twc and an IC with a WTT, and a runepriest w/in 24" then meph will die horribly (barring a ridiculous stroke of fortune on your dice).

 

The less stormshields they have, the better Meph's chances to win vs the TWC. If he flubs his 1st round and then gets hit with the TH, then there is a good chance it's curtains for meph even without the IC. Personally, I would try to tarpit the TWC with something else, perhaps termies or even a talon dread, and charge meph elsewhere.

 

Without an invul save the TWC have a very good chance to end Meph's run. I typically run my TWC with 2 stormshields and a thunderhammer. If I am not running them with an IC, then I run the full monty of 5. If the unit gets off counter attack and you don't instagib them all, then there's a lot of attacks at str 5 that can rend going at Meph. That can be hard to live through without an invuln save.

 

My stepson plays blood angels, and I play SW's so we've ran that match up quite a few times and there's just better targets for Meph.