Grey Knight choices

[thade]

Not taking Psy-riflemen because they're boring?!?

 

You guys have my sincere respect. I feel the same way. I refuse to take them as well. I've got Riflemen for my marines. I'm good with Dreadknights. <3

[Simo429]

It's kind of odd haow so many GK players seem to ignore the basic codex and do HQ-driven elite armies. I'm not saying this as a criticism, it's a valid choice.

 

I just sometimes feel I'm the only GK player who has a normal Grandmaster as a HQ. Everyone else seems to be Crowe+purifiers, Draigo+paladins or Coteaz+henchmen swarm.

I'm using 2 xenos inquisitors.

[number6]

It's kind of odd haow so many GK players seem to ignore the basic codex and do HQ-driven elite armies. I'm not saying this as a criticism, it's a valid choice.

 

I just sometimes feel I'm the only GK player who has a normal Grandmaster as a HQ. Everyone else seems to be Crowe+purifiers, Draigo+paladins or Coteaz+henchmen swarm.

I have two "basic, all-rounder" army lists that I run the most. One has just an OM Inquisitor as an HQ, and the other is actually run by a Brother-Captain! Sometimes, I feel, you just don't need the GM, and the BC is plenty good enough. 25 pts is a lot, you know! That's the cost of a DK greatsword, for example. :P

[Astorath the Grim]

Not taking Psy-riflemen because they're boring?!?

 

You guys have my sincere respect. I feel the same way. I refuse to take them as well. I've got Riflemen for my marines. I'm good with Dreadknights. <3

 

 

Yup, that is my thought on them...that and they are in every single cookie cutter, 'competitive' list out there...once again, boring, cliche, and more then likely just going to annoy the living hell out of my opponents. I play for fun, it IS a game after all. That and I really don't feel like putting forth the effort to convert something that, truthfully, is not important enough, or needed enough to bother with.

[Simo429]

I really don't care what annoys the hell out of my opponents, if they are so worried about losing becuase they face 3 psyfleman dreads then maybe they should firstly ask them self how much winning means to them and secondly look at the army lists that they take if they can't deal with them.

 

Its one thing applauding people for taking different units its another thing in the same breath putting people down who do take competitive choices. Wanting to win is not the same as win at all cost and its not a dirty thought to build the best list a codex can provide.

[Astorath the Grim]

There are other competitive choices in the heavy slot then Psyflemen dreads. I'm not putting anyone down for it, if you wanna take them great, more power to you. I'm just stating my opinion of the unit.

[Drachnon]

I also would have liked to field other stuff then Psyflemen but around here there's a lot of competitive mech guard players who kept wiping my of the board because I didn't take ranged firepower.

[Astorath the Grim]

That I can understand...at my lgs there is only one guard army, a couple of nids, a few orks, one necron, one DE (ME), and everything else is a space marine variant...oh and one Daemon player as well

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I'm an old timer, started out with rogue trader back in the day when i was but a child of 10, now I'm 31 and avoid GW stores because they feel like bloody kindergardens!

 

I've seen this newer style of play evolve, some call it "competitive" others call it "WAAC" in which victory at any price is the desired result to the point of ignoring fluff, fairness and even good sportsmanship. I'm not here to slag it off, I know it's a valid playstyle and dominates tournament scenes.

 

But I come from the good old days when things where a bit different, fluff and fun where the primary concern and people took allot of effort to tailor armies to the background and flavour of their chosen force even if that meant giving up a competetive edge at times. We considered fighting in the spirit of our chosen army to be paramount and to be honest winning or losing where secondary concerns.

 

My local gaming group has a mixtureof philosophies. One player keeps changing his army to find that one "killer" force,another is a die hard DA fan and has a Ravenwing army that sticks to established fluff (and is also a bugger to beat), another player has Daemons and just plays for the fun of it while another is a Nid player that tends to use "off the shelf" lists from the internet and then tailors them to the gaming group. Me, i have the core of the 5th Brotherhood led by Grand Master Drake and Brother Captain kezef (I have the entire Brotherhood written out with names for each main character and each squad justicar).

 

We all play our style and have fun in our own way. The point I'm trying to make is it can be annoying for us old timers to see these cookie-cutter lists designed the same way with the same units and the same tactics. it's nice t see flks who play things their own way rather than becoming a tournament clone like all those space Marine razorback lists or gurad mech lists whereeveryone is pretty much using the same army.

[Noober]

"I feel, you just don't need the GM, and the BC is plenty good enough. 25 pts is a lot, you know! That's the cost of a DK greatsword, for example."

 

My opinion is the exact opposite. 25pts from grand mastery is a bargain. The amount of tactical flexibility it gives you is HUGE for 25pts. I've won games because of it many times. Scoring backfield dreadnaughts vs an opponent with poor long ranged AT, reroll 1's with your deathstar, scout to give outflank or get a first turn assault. It's fun, versatile, cheap and effective, never leave home without it! :wacko:

[number6]

"I feel, you just don't need the GM, and the BC is plenty good enough. 25 pts is a lot, you know! That's the cost of a DK greatsword, for example."

 

My opinion is the exact opposite. 25pts from grand mastery is a bargain.

You misunderstand me. 25 pts for grand mastery is a bargain, no doubt about it. But what if you don't need it in your army list?

 

25 pts goes a long ways in the GK codex. If there are "better" places to put 25 pts -- for this specific army list -- that's what I do. And did. :o

[Noober]

I don't know anything better for 25pts than GM! :jaw:

 

"But what if you don't need it in your army list?" Such versatile skill is needed, always. There are no such lists which wouldn't "need" it. I don't understand how anyone would take brother-captain instead of grand master. Then again I've seen you taking many different units in your lists, avoiding spam and using units others consider useless. I respect that and do that myself too, which is good for the game. :o

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I don't know anything better for 25pts than GM! ;)

 

"But what if you don't need it in your army list?" Such versatile skill is needed, always. There are no such lists which wouldn't "need" it. I don't understand how anyone would take brother-captain instead of grand master. Then again I've seen you taking many different units in your lists, avoiding spam and using units others consider useless. I respect that and do that myself too, which is good for the game. :)

 

heh sometimes i even use psilencers

[Astorath the Grim]

I'm an old timer, started out with rogue trader back in the day when i was but a child of 10, now I'm 31 and avoid GW stores because they feel like bloody kindergardens!

 

I've seen this newer style of play evolve, some call it "competitive" others call it "WAAC" in which victory at any price is the desired result to the point of ignoring fluff, fairness and even good sportsmanship. I'm not here to slag it off, I know it's a valid playstyle and dominates tournament scenes.

 

But I come from the good old days when things where a bit different, fluff and fun where the primary concern and people took allot of effort to tailor armies to the background and flavour of their chosen force even if that meant giving up a competetive edge at times. We considered fighting in the spirit of our chosen army to be paramount and to be honest winning or losing where secondary concerns.

 

My local gaming group has a mixtureof philosophies. One player keeps changing his army to find that one "killer" force,another is a die hard DA fan and has a Ravenwing army that sticks to established fluff (and is also a bugger to beat), another player has Daemons and just plays for the fun of it while another is a Nid player that tends to use "off the shelf" lists from the internet and then tailors them to the gaming group. Me, i have the core of the 5th Brotherhood led by Grand Master Drake and Brother Captain kezef (I have the entire Brotherhood written out with names for each main character and each squad justicar).

 

We all play our style and have fun in our own way. The point I'm trying to make is it can be annoying for us old timers to see these cookie-cutter lists designed the same way with the same units and the same tactics. it's nice t see flks who play things their own way rather than becoming a tournament clone like all those space Marine razorback lists or gurad mech lists whereeveryone is pretty much using the same army.

 

 

I've only been playing for about 5 years myself but I know exactly what you mean!

[number6]

I don't know anything better for 25pts than GM! ;)

 

"But what if you don't need it in your army list?" Such versatile skill is needed, always. There are no such lists which wouldn't "need" it. I don't understand how anyone would take brother-captain instead of grand master. Then again I've seen you taking many different units in your lists, avoiding spam and using units others consider useless. I respect that and do that myself too, which is good for the game. :P

That's the same as saying that a GM is an absolute requirement for every GK army list. Surely you don't mean that? :lol:

 

Here's the exact army list in question, the one that uses a Brother-Captain-not-a-Grand-Master, and a Dreadknight-without-a-Greatsword-the-horror!

 

If you can tell me where I can get 25 pts to upgrade to a GM, OR 25 pts to get a Greatsword -- or better, 50 pts to get both -- I'm all ears.

 

CAVEAT: The list still has to function the way it's designed to function. I don't think it's possible. (If I did, I would have used one or both options.)

 

So, don't break the list, but give me either a GM or a DK Greatsword or both. If you can't match that challenge, then you'll have to admit that nothing in the GK codex is absolutely required, even the really obviously good things like Grand Strategy and DK greatswords.

 

HQ

[180 pts] Brother-Captain, psychotroke grenades, rad grenades

 

Elite

[190 pts] Venerable Dreadnought, heavy flamer, psyflame

 

Troop

[120 pts] 5 Strikers, psycannon, justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[120 pts] 5 Strikers, psycannon, justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[225 pts] 5 Terminators, psycannon, hammer, 4 halberds

[205 pts] 5 Terminators, incinerator, hammer, 4 halberds

 

Fast Attack

[205 pts] Stormraven, TLLC, TLMM

[150 pts] 5 Interceptors, psycannon, justicar w/hammer

 

Heavy Support

[235 pts] Dreadknight, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter

[135 pts] Dreadnought, 2x TLAC, psybolts

[135 pts] Dreadnought, 2x TLAC, psybolts

 

Total: 2000 pts

[Drachnon]

What is the role of the venerable dread? He rides with Termi's + Brother Captain in stormraven?

I you hadn't used all you heavy support slots I would have advised on downgrading it to normal dread (would have given you the points for both upgrades). If you can live without the venerable I'd look into replacing it with something else even without the 50 points for the 2 upgrades you would still have 140 points to spend. (interceptor squad without the psycannon?)

[number6]

Except that all my heavies are already filled, so it's impossible to downgrade the Vendread. One of the dreads must be venerable because of force org limitations. (And yes, the vendread in this list is designed to hang off the stormraven.) So nice try, but no dice. <_<

[thade]

What's the general plan with the list, 6? Maybe some example engagements? I can see how I would field the list, but not how you would.

[Zagman]

How about dropping the 2nd squad of terminators in favor of the requested upgrades as well as upgrading the Interceptor squad size to ten and a 2nd psycannon. Leaves 5pts for a MCed hammer as well. IMO those Termies just don't fit in the list. They require at best a T2/3 DS. The interceptors increase your T1 threat, as well as offering 2 highly mobile scoring units in Sieze Ground.

[number6]

How about dropping the 2nd squad of terminators in favor of the requested upgrades as well as upgrading the Interceptor squad size to ten and a 2nd psycannon. Leaves 5pts for a MCed hammer as well. IMO those Termies just don't fit in the list. They require at best a T2/3 DS. The interceptors increase your T1 threat, as well as offering 2 highly mobile scoring units in Sieze Ground.

Definitely an option I considered. However, the point of the psycannon terminators is to increase my presence in midfield and not leave my Strikers too vulnerable to the enemy. Strikers like this have to set up relatively close to the enemy, and as I hope you can see, the rest of the list is either in-your-face- or stand-back-and-shoot-with-the-strikers. Interceptors aren't actually a resilient enough or strong enough assault threat to hang comfortably with the strikers and psyflemen. Besides, we all know that interceptors shouldn't be hanging around in midfield. They exist to get psycannons and hammers up close to the enemy, preferably in their deployment zone ... or at least behind them. :)

 

IMHO, that is, choosing that option opens up the requisite points, but actually does break the list. Without the terminators, my midfield presence -- including two valuable scoring Troops units -- are unsupported and too easily destroyed. After all, I'm not spamming my Troops options, which is about the only other way to "protect" your scoring assets that I know of.

 

Which is another way of saying: if I were to take that option, I would actually just start over and build an entirely different list built around the capabilities of interceptors.

[Dr von Hohenheim]

What annoys me about the autocannon dreadnoughts is the total lack of a proper model for them.