1850 with no Long Fangs

[old git]

After the success of Arjac in the last tournament I want to try something different for the next in a couple of weeks. I want to go Hunter heavy with a couple of 'raiders so came up with this;

 

Rune Priest

2 hunter packs in rhinos

2 hunter packs in Crusaders

footslogging hunter pack (for home objectives)

scouts

wolf guard spread around

 

In order to fit the 'raiders in as well as all the hunters I have to sacrifice something so out went the fangs. What does the Fang think? Can a wolf list work without the support of missiles?

[Karack Blackstone]

Long Fangs are just like everything else in the Codex: there's a place and time for everything.

 

The problem I am seeing is twofold thus far:

 

- No real long-range replacements for said LF's

- Your Crusaders would be better served with BC's due to size comparison and transport capacity.

 

As most people don't tend to use BC's, and two Crusaders is overkill depending upon what you will be facing, your list is not ideal, nor will it fail outright due to bad rolls. It all comes down to you, the general for this army. Do you have plans for how to take out enemy armor such that you may face it? Scouts with MB's and a meltagun could work; however, if lost, where's the fallback range support?

 

This list is playable, overall; I'd wonder if dropping a LRC might get you the points you need, unless you want a high value target or two running around.

 

Edit: gotta love word choice errors...

[old git]

Without going into points values, there are numerous melta weapons spread around the packs, including MMs on the crusaders plus assault cannons. The scouts do indeed have a couple of melta guns (melta/combi-melta). the basic plan calls for not much finesse, simply go for the throat with as much power as I can bring to bear. The two crusaders are there to best ensure that the packs get where I think they should be, with the rhino packs following up in support. If I get that far up the table, or at least half way, then the wolves excel at dominating the center ground. Hopefully the enemy will be so bemused at the lack of missile launchers they won't know how to deal with 30+ hunters bearing down on them. As said, it's just something different. Unfortunately work commitments means I have no time for practice games. Advice appreciated.

[Skirax]

Anything can work without Long Fangs. It irks me that it seems like we HAVE to use them, or at least that's the mindset in the Fang at the moment...

[hendrik]

why not take a standard landraider? the twin linked lascannons will help against vehicles and stuff like terminators etc

[Karack Blackstone]

Anything can work without Long Fangs. It irks me that it seems like we HAVE to use them, or at least that's the mindset in the Fang at the moment...

 

Long Fangs are actually too good to not use at the moment, which is the problem. They're great for their cost, and fielding them is not as much of an issue as many other forms of heavy support would require.

 

I have over 30 Long Fangs Heavy Weapon models, and one Predator. That's fine for this edition, however it sure says a great deal to me that LF's are basically cheap, expendable and common units these days.

 

For this list, the meltas will work. How well depends as always on the dice. After that, it's largely moot as to what was taken so long as the target is neutralized. What bothers me is that overall there's no real consideration these days for the vehicles that in older editions picked up the slack for lack of Long Fangs in a list. Dreads of all types, and even Predators, are not favored due to being shut down so easily. Any glancing or penetrating hit of 1, 2 or 3 shuts down at least one weapon, if not more.

 

That's basically how I see the issue when boiled down: do you still have the option to fire your heavy weapons on a vehicle if it takes a hit? More often than not the answer is no, for 50% of the time. That's too often of not firing; thus, many favor LF's for the continued ability to support the troops. While the Skaros rebellion is mentioned as the source of the Predator Annihilator pattern tank, there's very few taken these days. Long Fangs were simply made too good this edition, however if this is the theme we have for next edition, there should be some reason to at least still consider other forms of fire support, i.e., Dreadnoughts with long range and/or Predators.

[wolf363839]

I can prove that Long Fangs are not a requirement because I've built up a nice record (see below), using Long Fangs only for the first 15 or so games since the new dex came out (and before I incorporated my Thunderwolf Lord).

 

I prefer mobile firepower for the most part: Land Raider, Vindicator, Typhoon Speeder, TwinLas Razor, Rune Priest

 

It all depends on your army build / personality. I love mech Wolves moving like a juggernaut towards the enemy. Long Fangs obviously have their place, but especially since I play mainly Battle Missions, it really helps to be able to move and shoot.

[Silverwolf]

Yeh I think it's doable. My changes would be;

 

Drop the scouts, they're job will be done by Pod Hunters

 

3x Melta Hunters with C.Melta PL in Pods for dealing with for Turn 1 Armour Popping (Or 1 as Plasma, so you drop the 2 melta teams turn 1, then drop the plasma turn 3 onto the home objective).

2x Blood Claws in the Crusaders, 1 with a Wolf Priest (Both with Wolf Priests if you can find the points)

 

Lack of rhinos means less targets on the deck turn 1, however your also going to be hitting hard in your opponents lines, so it's a trade-off. If you've secured turn 1, deploy in the open and charge your 12 and smoke it up. If you get turn 2, park those Crusader behind some 50% coverage terrain to keep them alive for that first turn of shooting at you.

 

If you pop your opponents big hitters Turn 1, they're going to be panicking, as those 2x "Death-Star" BC units are going to look big and nasty coming at them, and to top it off your already going to be in their lines raising hell, so you'll have them on the back foot from the beginning.

 

I used to run a single 560pt (ish) Death Star Crusader in 1750pt Tournaments to soak fire from my Rhinos, and aside from one game with an already great opponent (Vindicator, turn 1, 6, 6, 6... "oh... I'll buy you a drink for that one after" lol), it used to do pretty well. Even getting popped 12" off the line against static IG, the remaining 'Claws managed to run the distance, take a Rough Rider charge, and hit the enemy lines with their WGBL and the remaining 'CLaws, with P.Fists... who then proceeded to munch their way through his entire defensive line :down:.

 

It can be done, but it's a very 1-trick pony list, and has to be used exactly to spec to work. If you get a nasty start to the game, you'll be screwed. But, that's what makes such lists so much fun :).

[old git]

Thanks for the replies. I'm pretty tied by model availability (I have no wolf drop pods). I've been playing 20+ years, although not all of it as a wolf (see user name) so I have a bit of appreciation of tactics overall. It's just that I'm getting a little bored with the old Long Fang set up routine so thought I'd try something different. I like my scouts, they keep the enemy on the hop in his deployment zone and maybe some of his attention away from the armoured assault coming his way. I agree it's a bit of an all or nothing approach but I think if done well enough, and with Russ rolling the dice for me, should do ok. I'll report back at the end of the month, after the tournament. Cheers guys.

[Wysten]

Long Fangs are fantastic units, but at these point levels you can afford not to take them for a couple of reasons;

 

A: More bodies is very importent. Grey Hunters are solid troops which can fight fairly well. They are not end all meleers, so at these points if you really want something taking down, you really have to have the bodies to take a good battering.

 

B: Land speeders fill the role quite nicely at this for anywhere between 50 to 90 points. While they are not duriable, they are good distractions at worst and a murderious pest at best. A heavy flamer template and the multimelta here and there can be really devistating in lower point games where a good template can really soften up the oppoments, and really flexable too. In combination with the plentiful bodies, these cheap desruptive units can force your oppoment to priortise against two highly dangerious close range threats early on.

 

C: Even if you go bare bones, your likely to be paying around 500 points to get a rune priest, 2 Grey Hunter squads. In combination with some speeders, or perhaps even a 3rd pack of grey hunters, you are likely to have all the tools you need for 1500 points. Just got to add some Long Fangs, swap some boys around for Wolf Guard while building around the solid base constructed at 850.

[Quillen]

Double Landraiders work fine. I have done this alot. And no you do not want BloodClaws. Too much for too little these days. Like stated above Long Fangs became a bit over powered and Bloodclaws were gimped beyond belief. Grey Hunters have better options and will last longer in a fight. Blood claws look cool that first charge and then slowly die off. WS3 blows. Add in the cost they have now...... Just not worth it.

 

I made a list that was all armor just to see what it would look like. And it seems fun. I just have to paint the models. And I have so little time these days.

[Blacksad]

would a redeemer fit in there, instead of 2 crusaders? just to get some AP3 templates in there, to make up for the missing missiles...

[Wysten]

Oh, 1850. Strange, didn't notice it initally.

 

It is possible to run without Long Fangs, just it means you have to take a much more proactive approch to combat since you won't have the stunning power of the long fangs. The double raider thing helps offset that, though I am weary on spending 500 on large boxes to hold your boys in, though at least they would have a confortable ride. Just make sure those squads in there are suitably capable of acting as a solid hammer, so that they will kill what they hit in 2 combat phases.

 

I imagine thunder wolf is completely out of the picture? Not talking huge packs, just a small one to hide behind the Rhinos and act as a supporting hammer to add further melee weight to either combat.

[old git]

Now that's interesting. I do have a Pack of Thunderwolves and had forgotten you can take just a single wolf, hmmm...

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Rifledreads and Typhoons :)

[saturnine]

*edit*

moved to a new thread

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I think you deserve a lot of credit for wanting to play without long fangs. They definitely are a unit that are more useful than their point costs. Every codex has a unit or two that give an edge. LF are one of those units for us.

 

When you replace them, make sure you add something to shorten the playing field. Different long range unit. Or a unit like Land Speeders which has a lot of speed and gets the bad guy within reach of your guns in an expedient way as well.

 

Good luck!

 

Oh, and some advice. I love taking Land Speeders with MM and deep striking them by some rear armor. Risk is worth it and adds more fun to the game.