Ravenwing Deathwing

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

Brief question stated in topic already. Search the threads and could not find it.

 

Can you field an army list that consists of Ravenwing and Deathwing elements? I thought (going by fluff) that they were separate armies that are an offshoot of Dark Angels army.

 

Thanks in advance. ^_^

[Seahawk]

Fluff does not equal rules. Yes, a Dark Angels player can include elements of the Ravenwing and Deathwing in his/her lists.

[timmytool]

the 2 wings are the first and second company of the 10 companies in the Dark Angels chapter, just like vanilla marines where terminators(which are from their first company also) are in an army of normal tactical squads (2nd to 7th?) all 3(4) main elements can be in a C:DA army (deathwing, ravenwing, "greenwing", armory).

[Jehoel]

It's called a DeathRaven (or RavenDeath) army if both of the Company Masters ( Beliel and Sammiel) are in the army. It is common for either a Ravenwing or Deathwing army to be supported by forces from the other wing.

[Tanhausen]

And actually, one of the most balanced as well as competitive lists we can put on the table is a double wing (DW+RW).

 

So no, you can't.... xD JK

[HiveFleetEzekial]

I thought (going by fluff) that they were separate armies that are an offshoot of Dark Angels army.

 

Nope. What you're thinking of is called a Successor Chapter. DW and RW are neither of these. They are the 1st and 2nd company, respectively, within the Dark Angels army. The Consecrators, Disciple of Caliban, The Angels of Vengance/Absolution/Redemtion, and Guardians of The Covenant are our successors/'offshoots'.

[ilnar]

Actually, in previous codex a death wing list could only contain TDA, dreads and LR. So it's a valid question.

And no, in the new book there are no limitations on what you take, although the DW/RW will only be scoring troop choices if you take their respective commander.

[timmytool]

Actually, in previous codex a death wing list could only contain TDA, dreads and LR. So it's a valid question.

And no, in the new book there are no limitations on what you take, although the DW/RW will only be scoring troop choices if you take their respective commander.

 

just to muddy the waters the attack bike and the land speeder in the RW attack squadron are always scoring irrespective of Sammael's (the RW commander) inclusion (C:DA p27 in the RW combat sq box).

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Actually, in previous codex a death wing list could only contain TDA, dreads and LR. So it's a valid question.

And no, in the new book there are no limitations on what you take, although the DW/RW will only be scoring troop choices if you take their respective commander.

 

just to muddy the waters the attack bike and the land speeder in the RW attack squadron are always scoring irrespective of Sammael's (the RW commander) inclusion (C:DA p27 in the RW combat sq box).

No the RW battleforce box is only a fast attack choice. Sammael makes the Squad a Troop Choice.

[timmytool]

Actually, in previous codex a death wing list could only contain TDA, dreads and LR. So it's a valid question.

And no, in the new book there are no limitations on what you take, although the DW/RW will only be scoring troop choices if you take their respective commander.

 

just to muddy the waters the attack bike and the land speeder in the RW attack squadron are always scoring irrespective of Sammael's (the RW commander) inclusion (C:DA p27 in the RW combat sq box).

No the RW battleforce box is only a fast attack choice. Sammael makes the Squad a Troop Choice.

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

[dswanick]

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

Correcting myself.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

Sammael is the only way to make the squad a troop choice. That includes the bikers and the attack bike and land speeder you can buy as upgrades. And I only said they were not scoring if you didn't have Sammael in your army. If you don't have Sammael in your army then the squad is just a plain fast attack choice.

 

The Dark Angels codex only has one basic troop choice and that is the Tatical Squad. Beliel makes DW Terminators into Troop Choices and Sammael makes the Biker Squads into Troop Choices. If you don't have either one in you army then you can only have Tatical Squads as Scoring units.

[Isiah]

ERRATA

Page 23 – Combat Squads

The third paragraphʼs last sentence should be ignored, and the penultimate sentence should be changed to “If you decide to break the unit down, then each Combat Squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point.”

Does this not change the "always operates as completely independant scoring units" statement?

 

No it doesn't because you are not breaking down into combat squads per se as the Attack Bike and Land Speeder are individual units of one from the off.

 

Cheers

I

[Jacinda]

Actually, in previous codex a death wing list could only contain TDA, dreads and LR. So it's a valid question.

And no, in the new book there are no limitations on what you take, although the DW/RW will only be scoring troop choices if you take their respective commander.

 

just to muddy the waters the attack bike and the land speeder in the RW attack squadron are always scoring irrespective of Sammael's (the RW commander) inclusion (C:DA p27 in the RW combat sq box).

LOL

 

Now there's a screw up that should have been caught and fixed with the eratta. Oh well. RAW say the speeder and the attack bike are scoring units. The other bikes are not.

[Isiah]

LOL

 

Now there's a screw up that should have been caught and fixed with the eratta. Oh well.

 

On the other hand... after ample opportunity (the DA have had 3 faqs since 5th edition launch on July 12th 2008) the fact that the rule remains as is points to that's how it should be :D. However, this kind of discussion is best had on the DA section and not here in the +OR+.

 

Cheers

I

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

Sammael is the only way to make the squad a troop choice. That includes the bikers and the attack bike and land speeder you can buy as upgrades. And I only said they were not scoring if you didn't have Sammael in your army. If you don't have Sammael in your army then the squad is just a plain fast attack choice.

 

The Dark Angels codex only has one basic troop choice and that is the Tatical Squad. Beliel makes DW Terminators into Troop Choices and Sammael makes the Biker Squads into Troop Choices. If you don't have either one in you army then you can only have Tatical Squads as Scoring units.

 

The rules specifically state that they count as scoring. Codex trumps rulebook.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

Sammael is the only way to make the squad a troop choice. That includes the bikers and the attack bike and land speeder you can buy as upgrades. And I only said they were not scoring if you didn't have Sammael in your army. If you don't have Sammael in your army then the squad is just a plain fast attack choice.

 

The Dark Angels codex only has one basic troop choice and that is the Tatical Squad. Beliel makes DW Terminators into Troop Choices and Sammael makes the Biker Squads into Troop Choices. If you don't have either one in you army then you can only have Tatical Squads as Scoring units.

 

The rules specifically state that they count as scoring. Codex trumps rulebook.

Where does it say that the bike squad is scoring other than when made into troops by Sammael?

[timmytool]

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

Sammael is the only way to make the squad a troop choice. That includes the bikers and the attack bike and land speeder you can buy as upgrades. And I only said they were not scoring if you didn't have Sammael in your army. If you don't have Sammael in your army then the squad is just a plain fast attack choice.

 

The Dark Angels codex only has one basic troop choice and that is the Tatical Squad. Beliel makes DW Terminators into Troop Choices and Sammael makes the Biker Squads into Troop Choices. If you don't have either one in you army then you can only have Tatical Squads as Scoring units.

 

The rules specifically state that they count as scoring. Codex trumps rulebook.

Where does it say that the bike squad is scoring other than when made into troops by Sammael?

 

its not the bike squadron itself its just the attack bike and landspeeder that can be additionally purchased that always count as independent scoring units the squadrons bikes only count as scoring when Sammael is present(in the army list).

 

and the rule that makes this possible is on p27 in the box C:DA.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

Sammael is the only way to make the squad a troop choice. That includes the bikers and the attack bike and land speeder you can buy as upgrades. And I only said they were not scoring if you didn't have Sammael in your army. If you don't have Sammael in your army then the squad is just a plain fast attack choice.

 

The Dark Angels codex only has one basic troop choice and that is the Tatical Squad. Beliel makes DW Terminators into Troop Choices and Sammael makes the Biker Squads into Troop Choices. If you don't have either one in you army then you can only have Tatical Squads as Scoring units.

 

The rules specifically state that they count as scoring. Codex trumps rulebook.

Where does it say that the bike squad is scoring other than when made into troops by Sammael?

 

its not the bike squadron itself its just the attack bike and landspeeder that can be additionally purchased that always count as independent scoring units the squadrons bikes only count as scoring when Sammael is present(in the army list).

 

and the rule that makes this possible is on p27 in the box C:DA.

Oh so there is a mess up with the wording that makes the Land Speeder and attack bike scoring at all times?

[timmytool]

re-read the listed rules area then if you disagree with me type out the boxed text and show us why the attack bike and speeder is not scoring.

Sammael is the only way to make the squad a troop choice. That includes the bikers and the attack bike and land speeder you can buy as upgrades. And I only said they were not scoring if you didn't have Sammael in your army. If you don't have Sammael in your army then the squad is just a plain fast attack choice.

 

The Dark Angels codex only has one basic troop choice and that is the Tatical Squad. Beliel makes DW Terminators into Troop Choices and Sammael makes the Biker Squads into Troop Choices. If you don't have either one in you army then you can only have Tatical Squads as Scoring units.

 

The rules specifically state that they count as scoring. Codex trumps rulebook.

Where does it say that the bike squad is scoring other than when made into troops by Sammael?

 

its not the bike squadron itself its just the attack bike and landspeeder that can be additionally purchased that always count as independent scoring units the squadrons bikes only count as scoring when Sammael is present(in the army list).

 

and the rule that makes this possible is on p27 in the box C:DA.

Oh so there is a mess up with the wording that makes the Land Speeder and attack bike scoring at all times?

 

I'd say its less of a mess up as it has survived 3 FAQ reviews over 3? years

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Oh so there is a mess up with the wording that makes the Land Speeder and attack bike scoring at all times?

 

I'd say its less of a mess up as it has survived 3 FAQ reviews over 3? years

There is alot that survives FAQs for years that isn't surprising.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Nevertheless, it's still legal.