Brother_Ovis Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 OK, this is probably quite a stupid question, but I have to ask it. Where exactly does the rulebook say that you can deploy a unit in a transport that is not dedicated to this unit? The entry on dedicated transports states that "The only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with", which does hint on non-dedicated transports being able to be deployed carrying troops, but is there any paragraph stating it more expressly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'm not sure that this is actually specified anywhere but does it need to be? There's nothing in the rules preventing this from happening. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I don't remember the BRB saying "non dedicated transports can start the game with a unit inside" if that's what you're asking for... But as you quoted, the only transports that have a limitation are dedicated ones, that can only start with the unit they were bought for inside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 OK, this is probably quite a stupid question, but I have to ask it. Where exactly does the rulebook say that you can deploy a unit in a transport that is not dedicated to this unit? The only stupid question is the one you don't ask ;) The entry on dedicated transports states that "The only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with", which does hint on non-dedicated transports being able to be deployed carrying troops, but is there any paragraph stating it more expressly? As you say, it hints that it is possible. As it is not forbidden and since it makes sense (It is a transport after all) I would say that it is safe to say that a transport which is not dedicated can start with any unit, which can embark in that type of transport, in it. Certainly everyone I know plays it that way... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 By RAW, I can find no permission to deploy a unit inside a transport during deployment (except in the case of a unit and a transport in reserves. EMBARKING AND DISEMBARKINGModels can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase, and may not voluntarily both embark and disembark in the same player turn. Deployment is prior to the any Movement Phase. Similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicles in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units an/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together. The common practice, however, is that it can be done. Which is supported by the out-box for Dedicated Transports and this statement in the Deployment section of the rules. A NOTE ON SECRECYTo keep things fair, you should always allow your opponent to read your force roster after a game. In the same spirit, always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle. As to your question - if you can deploy a unit inside a transport then, except in the case of another unit's dedicated transport (the rule for which you mentioned in your OP), you can deploy in non-dedicated transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 it is never explicity stated, however in the brb their is a game example were it is done. I unfortunatly only have the black reach rule book which lacks everything after the last page of rules and cannot give you a pg number however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 like the other have said theres no rule that says you can definately do it, but game mechanics must allow for it otherwise certain units become obsolete, the land speeder storm would be one such unit. how can it deepstrike outflank or scout move if your not allowed to start scouts inside (scout moves can be used to embark though) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Ovis Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Yes exactly, LSS has 'scouts' and scouts have 'infiltrate' and 'scouts', which makes it perfectly possible for them to embark the LSS before turn 1 outside of controlling player's deployment zone. The question arose for me when I was reading the rules for Caestus Assault Ram, which can deepstrike, but isn't a dedicated transport like the LSS, which seriosly limits its deepstriking assault capabilities IF a unit cannot start a game INSIDE the non-dedicated transport... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 but isn't a dedicated transport like the LSS the LSS isnt a dedicated transport Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Ovis Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 but isn't a dedicated transport like the LSS the LSS isnt a dedicated transport I meant ""isn't a dedicated transport just as the LSS isn't". Sorry if it was unclear. Not my first language :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Wow, you guys are good. Wrapped this one up handily. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2849944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlakir Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 From the official FAQ: Q: Can a unit start the game embarked in a nondedicated transport vehicle? (p92) A: Yes, as long as its unit type is allowed to embark onto that vehicle and it does not exceed the transport capacity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2850656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Ovis Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Thank you very much. Discussion closed, I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2850659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 like the other have said theres no rule that says you can definately do it, but game mechanics must allow for it otherwise certain units become obsolete, the land speeder storm would be one such unit.how can it deepstrike outflank or scout move if your not allowed to start scouts inside (scout moves can be used to embark though) Yes, fortunately you can, but other rules are quite broken like the spearhead formation that allows you to bring a superheavy tank in from reserve, yet the FaQ specifically says the tank is destroyed because it cannot fully be deployed on the table. I wrote a story about the dedicated transport that has to do with the FaQ. Q: Can a unit start the game embarked in a nondedicated transport vehicle? (p92) A: Yes, as long as its unit type is allowed to embark onto that vehicle and it does not exceed the transport capacity. The key are the words 'a unit'. What if there were two? There was one final screech of twisted and scorched metal as the last of the killa kans went topling down the steep hill to the ravine below that also served as the final resting place for some several hundred dead Orks. The remnants of 2nd company Imperial Fists were packing up and leaving. Deep behind enemy Ork lines, the strike to the command and control of the Orks on Davnis IV went well with all but a few Space Marines fallen and several Rhinos lost. Soon the campaign would eradicate this Ork menace before it found a foot hold. "Pack it in Marines!" Sgt. Jeorvis ordered as the last marine from his combat squad made way for their Rhino. "We have incoming Ork hordes from the north and south flanks that will be on us in minutes. Let's blaze outta here." With the last of his combat squad in, Sgt. Jeorvis shut and latched the hatch and then leaned back against the wall of the Rhino, content in the fact that he was alive and the enemy was dead. The Rhino engine rumbled to life and coughed a few times as it revved strong and ready to cede this battlefield to the enemy now that their job was done and the Ork Warlord lay dead and rotting in a heap of twisting metal. RAP! RAP! RAP! "What in the name of the Emperor!" Sgt Jeorvis and his squad looked quizically at one another at the sound of the taps the reverberated through the hull. "Not gunfire, Sgt," said one of his squad. "Someone's tapping on the rear hatch." Sgt. Jeorvis unlatched the rear door, squeezing the grip on his bolter firmly, as it fell open to the cindering battlefield behind them. Standing before them were five hulking figures in yellow power armor. "Hello brothers! Sgt. Lighberger and combat squad here asking for permission to embark. Our Rhino didn't make it and it would be an honor to ride with fellow battle brothers." Sgt. Jeorvis looked back at his squad in the Rhino and then back at his fellow space marines standing before the hatch and shook his head. "Sorry, Sgt. Lighberger, permission denied." "What? The Ork hordes are almost upon us! Certainly there is more room in that Rhino! I can see it occupied by only you and four of your marines. We are but five more! All of us have room!" Sgt. Lighberger stated firmly as he placed his armored boot upon the hatch door in front of him. "Sgt. Lighberger, if I may please direct your attention to that little warning sign on the entry door to your left," Sgt. Jeorvis said while pointing it out with his finger. "Please read that for me." The roar of Ork battle bikes could be heard in the distance closing in on their position, along with the sounds of Ork gunfire and howls and shouts from Ork mobs. Sgt. Lighberger glanced over in the direction of the sounds as they grew ever closer and then turned back to the sign placing his other armored boot on the ramp and leaning in toward the sign to read it. "Uhh... Says 'A transport may carry a single infantry unit and/or any number of independant characters up to a total of models equal to the vehicle's transport capacity.' So, so what? You still have room! The Orks are coming, let us in!" "I can't do that, Sgt. Lighberger. You must understand, rules are rules and the Imperial Fists follow the rules and our codex to the letter, you as well as I know the truth in this! There is nothing I can do for you or your men. Now promptly extricate yourself from my ramp. It is time for me and my combat squad to depart." Sgt. Lighberger twisted his fingers round the handle of his bolter grip then looked back at his battle brothers standing behind him and whirled around to face the darkened sanctuary of the Rhino and voiced angrily, "You're going to leave us here? Even when you have room in your Rhino, you are going to leave your fellow battle brothers behind to die at the hands of these vile Orks?" Sgt Lighberger took a step toward Sgt. Jeorvis and with a lightning fast thrust caught the collar of his armor in his gauntlet and pulled him close till their helmets clacked together. Red ember colored eyes burned into one another for what seemed like eternity. Both combat squads nervously gripped their bolters each ready to bring them to bear in what seemed like an inconceivable act... "Sgt. Jeorvis, may you and your squad burn in the fires of chaos!" Sgt. Lighberger spat as he shoved the other Sgt. away into the safe confines of the Rhino. Grabbing the hatch of the Rhino, Sgt. Lighberger said in a growling hellish voice, "May the Emperor's mercy be with you all, for if I survive this battle with these Orks, Jeorvis, you will need it to face my wrath!" And slammed the door shut. As the Rhino crested the small hill behind them and made it's way around the bend and out of sight, the start of the next battle was about to unfold. Before Sgt. Lighberger and his combat squad several thousand Orks rushed out from over the ridge, each one hungry for battle and lustful for revenge for their fallen Warlord. Sgt. Lighberger walked into the middle of some wreckage and thrummed his chainsword to life and from it lofted the severed head of the Ork Warlord and held it high for all the Orks to see. Lighberger turned toward his squad and said, "For Dorn!" 'For Dorn' his squad yelled and they turned to face their deaths. At least it will be quick, thought Lighberger... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2851477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Would be nice to be able to have more than one squad in a vehicle, as long as you don't exceed the transport capacity. Guess they wouldn't sell as many tanks that way though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236477-units-deployed-in-non-dedicated-transports-allowed/#findComment-2851623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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