BOBMAKENZIE Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 IMO Wyches are actually one of the best assault units for the points. They can go toe to toe with assault terminators... Well that is what they were designed to deal with.... ;) (Yeah thats right I just rolled my digi-eyes(iEyes?) at you) They are survivable in combat and they put out a fair few attacks. They struggle against high amounts of attacks where their low toughness and relatively low save dont save them long. Doesnt make them an elite assault unit but it doesnt make them bad either. They have their uses that is for sure. So remember Wyches are backwards of assault units they want to fight things like relic blades, Power Fists and lightning claws. They dont want to fight dudes with two ccws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 IMO Wyches are actually one of the best assault units for the points. They can go toe to toe with assault terminators... Well that is what they were designed to deal with.... ;) (Yeah thats right I just rolled my digi-eyes(iEyes?) at you) They are survivable in combat and they put out a fair few attacks. They struggle against high amounts of attacks where their low toughness and relatively low save dont save them long. Doesnt make them an elite assault unit but it doesnt make them bad either. They have their uses that is for sure. So remember Wyches are backwards of assault units they want to fight things like relic blades, Power Fists and lightning claws. They dont want to fight dudes with two ccws. Wait...what's this? They are designed to resist Hammernators? And are susceptible to massive numbers of attacks? o_O THIS IS A JOB FOR!!!! ...Vanilla Vanguard! 40 vanilla face-punches on the charge. :D Not to mention the 10 pre-charge shots you get with pistols. oh man...that makes me happy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 IMO Wyches are actually one of the best assault units for the points. They can go toe to toe with assault terminators... Well that is what they were designed to deal with.... ;) (Yeah thats right I just rolled my digi-eyes(iEyes?) at you) They are survivable in combat and they put out a fair few attacks. They struggle against high amounts of attacks where their low toughness and relatively low save dont save them long. Doesnt make them an elite assault unit but it doesnt make them bad either. They have their uses that is for sure. So remember Wyches are backwards of assault units they want to fight things like relic blades, Power Fists and lightning claws. They dont want to fight dudes with two ccws. Wait...what's this? They are designed to resist Hammernators? And are susceptible to massive numbers of attacks? o_O THIS IS A JOB FOR!!!! ...Vanilla Vanguard! 40 vanilla face-punches on the charge. :D Not to mention the 10 pre-charge shots you get with pistols. oh man...that makes me happy. Its a great day until you hit that one time where you end up killing all 10 with just the pistol shots and the vnaguard are left looking a touch foolish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Its a great day until you hit that one time where you end up killing all 10 with just the pistol shots and the vnaguard are left looking a touch foolish more awesome-er than ever because Vanguard are so awesome all the time. *Fixed. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 IMO Wyches are actually one of the best assault units for the points. They can go toe to toe with assault terminators... Well that is what they were designed to deal with.... :D (Yeah thats right I just rolled my digi-eyes(iEyes?) at you) They are survivable in combat and they put out a fair few attacks. They struggle against high amounts of attacks where their low toughness and relatively low save dont save them long. Doesnt make them an elite assault unit but it doesnt make them bad either. They have their uses that is for sure. So remember Wyches are backwards of assault units they want to fight things like relic blades, Power Fists and lightning claws. They dont want to fight dudes with two ccws. Wait...what's this? They are designed to resist Hammernators? And are susceptible to massive numbers of attacks? o_O THIS IS A JOB FOR!!!! ...Vanilla Vanguard! 40 vanilla face-punches on the charge. :) Not to mention the 10 pre-charge shots you get with pistols. oh man...that makes me happy. Its a great day until you hit that one time where you end up killing all 10 with just the pistol shots and the vnaguard are left looking a touch foolish. Yeah but that is versus a n00b. A good eldar player is going to shoot the crap out of you then charge you. Seriously the army doesn't have much problems versus most SM armies. Rolls my digi-eyes back. :lol: G :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 IMO Wyches are actually one of the best assault units for the points. They can go toe to toe with assault terminators... Well that is what they were designed to deal with.... <_< (Yeah thats right I just rolled my digi-eyes(iEyes?) at you) They are survivable in combat and they put out a fair few attacks. They struggle against high amounts of attacks where their low toughness and relatively low save dont save them long. Doesnt make them an elite assault unit but it doesnt make them bad either. They have their uses that is for sure. So remember Wyches are backwards of assault units they want to fight things like relic blades, Power Fists and lightning claws. They dont want to fight dudes with two ccws. Wait...what's this? They are designed to resist Hammernators? And are susceptible to massive numbers of attacks? o_O THIS IS A JOB FOR!!!! ...Vanilla Vanguard! 40 vanilla face-punches on the charge. ;) Not to mention the 10 pre-charge shots you get with pistols. oh man...that makes me happy. Its a great day until you hit that one time where you end up killing all 10 with just the pistol shots and the vnaguard are left looking a touch foolish. Yeah but that is versus a n00b. A good eldar player is going to shoot the crap out of you then charge you. Seriously the army doesn't have much problems versus most SM armies. Rolls my digi-eyes back. :o G ;) Yup, I agree here...as a DE player frankly terminator armies are one of my fav opponents cause the chances of me winning go up drastically...purifiers scare me on the other hand. And I have to ask, have some of you guys commenting on wyches ever actually faced a DE army that used them? Or are you just playing cookie cutter net armies with venom spam, warriors and 5 man squads of blaster born? :eek Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 This is a DriagoWing thread remember. Witches are great for tieing units up and can work wonders against standard single wound terminators and THSS, but haven't in my experience been nearly the threat to Paladins. On the other hand, Blasters are VERY scary, especially any unit that can take 4 for 163pts. Granted, most armies can pop their transport and take out the occupants, DriagoWing generally suffers from having few units which in turn results in a lower unit/turn kill ratio against softer targets. For example in my Ard Boyz game I could have killed a unit with every unit of mine every shooting phase and couldn't have killed all of them in a 5 turn game. And almost every unit inside of transports had blasters. I faced a total of 23 blasters and 6 dark lances. Maybe a net list, but it certainly is scarier to DriagoWing than a more balanced DE list with assault elements. Very much so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yeah but that is versus a n00b. A good eldar player is going to shoot the crap out of you then charge you. Seriously the army doesn't have much problems versus most SM armies. Rolls my digi-eyes back. :) Both Eldar books are two of the hardest books to use. Put noob on noob and the DE/E player will have some trouble. Two skilled players and the match up is going to be alot closer but it doesnt make it a wash for the DE/E at all. If you dont mind me asking do you play against DE much at all? Yup, I agree here...as a DE player frankly terminator armies are one of my fav opponents cause the chances of me winning go up drastically...purifiers scare me on the other hand. And I have to ask, have some of you guys commenting on wyches ever actually faced a DE army that used them? Or are you just playing cookie cutter net armies with venom spam, warriors and 5 man squads of blaster born? :( I've played probably.. well ~3 games a month Vs. DE over the course of ~2-3 years now. maybe Less. So lets say at least 30 games against DE most of the games including Wyches and I gotta say the old ones scared me alot more then the news ones do. They arent bad by any means they just arent as scary. They make spectacular tar pits. This is a DriagoWing thread remember. Witches are great for tieing units up and can work wonders against standard single wound terminators and THSS, but haven't in my experience been nearly the threat to Paladins. Good point. Wyches Vs. Termies is a good match up for them which is a very good thing to keep in mind for a DraigoWing list. A properly kitted wyche squad or two can really bog you down as they take on the rest of your already limited army on quite effectively. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Melta Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Got the codex last night and talked to the folks at my game store about my plans. They came up with this list @ 2250: Draigo Libby 2x10 paladins with all the fixings 2x Psyfleman dreads 24 models, pretty low model count However, I was thinking in a purer sense of Draigowing and thought I would run this instead Draigo 2x10 Paladins with all the fixings 1x5,6,7 up to 10 Paladins with all the fixings Thoughts? MM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 personally, I think draigo wing needs something other then paladins, either a dk or 2 or some dread's. DK's provide a big distraction if they have teleporters, and Psyfleman dreads provide long range fire support. Pure paladins will suffer at ranges greater then 30 inches, due to their 24 inch weapon range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You could do Draigo with only Paladins I bet, but I think something other than Paladins would really behoove you, as Nurglez says. DK are great in that they are very intimidating: they can very quickly get in your opponent's face and soak a lot of fire for your Paladins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Melta Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 ok, I would rather do DKs due to not wanting to mess with getting Dreads and autocannons, etc. So, do I have to give them a sword or hammer or can I max out on guns????? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 ok, I would rather do DKs due to not wanting to mess with getting Dreads and autocannons, etc. So, do I have to give them a sword or hammer or can I max out on guns????? My definitive answer to this is "Magnets!" ;) Here are a few load-outs I fully intend to try: PT, Hv Inc, Sword PT, Hv Inc, Hammer PT, Hv Inc, Fists PT, Hv Inc, Hv Psilencer, Fists Hv Inc, Hv Psilencer, Fists I see the PT ones as the guys that can get in my opponent's grill very quickly and reek varying degrees of havoc, drawing fire away from my infantry. The one without the teleporter is a foot-slogging fire base (Burnings + 12 boltgun-style shots will be nice for hordes that are smart enough to space out too much for the Hv Psycannon large blast plate to have much impact). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Probably going to sound like a troll, but oh well. I just want to make sure I am applying the right filter. @ thade, On 8/8/11 you told zaggman that you had not played a game yet with dragowing. You also said that you were about a month out from your first game. Has that time table been moved up, or are you still in the theory stage? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Has that time table been moved up, or are you still in the theory stage? Still in the theory stage. You can see my (slow) painting and assembly process here. You all can take or leave what I say based on amount of table experience, taking into consideration I have yet to field GK specifically. Reason I'm so verbose about it is that the Draigo wing is barely a few months old in concept...so we're all still learning. My words are non-binding, of course. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 while he hasn't played, he has hung around in my thread a fair amount, and taken on board all that has been discussed there :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 So, do I have to give them a sword or hammer or can I max out on guns????? Don't max out guns, because 2 out of 3 guns suck and are not worth the points. The Heavy Incinerator is the only gun that is decent. As for CC weapons, the sword is far better than the hammer, because of its crazy rerolling ability but it is a lot more points. Hammer isn't really needed IMHO, as the DK can strike at S7 easy enough, and since he is a MONSTER he gets 2d6 for armor penetration anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2851995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I would just with PT and HI. Those are all you need. The sword is very expensive, you lose an attack and its overkill versus most stuff. G :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 it is very useful to threaten vehicles with though, re rolls are awesome. I would like to try one out with the hammer, but that would require me to either modify one of mine, or buy a 3rd... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think thade is very knowledgeable on this army. G :blush: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think thade is very knowledgeable on this army. G :wacko: You and Thade got a thing going? :P That being said, i do enjoy reading thade's posts, he puts allot of thought into what he says and it would behoove the newer players to take his opinions into account. it's niceto have constructive folks around for a change rather than people who get their kicks out of trolling and bad mouthing. Personaly i hate the dread Knight and would burn every single one of the freaking things if i could. That being said and assuming the sky turned green, the grass blue and we had a month of sundays I might, MIGHT include a DK and if i did I'd favour the heavy psycannon, personal teleporterand keep to just the two doomfists. They are valid choices as distractions that are also very nasty in the fight and can causesome serious target priority headaches. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I have only tried out the heavy incinerator, and I love it. while the heavy psycannon looks nice, my army isn't short on psycannons. My army is short on str 6 ap 4 ignore cover template weapons though. imagine you want to kill a squad of 4+ save troops with stealth/going to ground on an objective in cover or even on a fortified ruin, with a 2+/3+ cover save, now imagine you can place the flamer up to 12 inches away and you can shunt 30 inches... And a great sword is a good investment, and also it looks damn cool, that sword is twice as tall as a terminator :wacko: I played chaos for ages, and would always without fail give my daemon prince warp time, a psychic power that let me reroll to hit and to wound for the same price. Oh look, here's something that does the same, and also effects armour penetration roles, and its always on, and it looks cool :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Demandred Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I think if I end up using DK's with my Draigowing then I will go with greatswords for my DK's. I want to make all of its attacks count and it seems like it really could be a huge help against vehicles. I would just with PT and HI. Those are all you need. The sword is very expensive, you lose an attack and its overkill versus most stuff. G :o There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to killing your enemies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 @ Thade, I certainly wasn't say your opinion was wrong. Just courious if you had gotten to play. Because some of your claims contradict Zagman & Nergelz so I was wondering what you were basing that on. Just a bit of background on me. Over in the dark angels forum I am in the minority as far as considering a speeder heavy ravenwing to be effective and competitive. By heavy I mean 9-11 at 2.5k, or almost half of your points spent on speeders. The reasons I am told I am wrong are because mathammer shows Dacca preads are better than speeders... But when I dive deeper I find that they (the people making this claim) have never fielded or faced more than 3 speeders and couldn't come up with 9 from their entire gaming club. So I am wrong because they are unwilling / unable to try my list. My thought was if they are as good as they claim, then the list shouldn't matter. I am not as good as all that, an need a list that makes sense to me, so that I am not having to plan a strategy, but am mearly working off instinct. But maybe my list works for me because of some internal wiring, which gives me an advantage that can't be calculated. And I have been playing mostly the same list since the that codex came out, which is an advantage over players with brand new lists. Finally the basic stategy was first began with my battle sister army, so the limitation weren't really that limiting. It is these little details which is what I am looking for, but haven't really heard you talk about. @ Nergelz, I too have spent a lot of time in your other thread, I however am not positioning myself as an expert. Having no practical experience, is kinda like a virgin sex counselor or a broke finance professor, sure their theories may be right... But on the other hand there is this great example... according to everything the experts know about metallurgy, it is impossible to make a light bulb... Edison was quoted as saying "it was a good thing I wasn't a metallurgist, cause then I would have known it couldn't be done. But again you both mistook my point. So far all we have heard is Zagman's & Nurgelz's game experiences and Thade's opinion. Which is not a great amount of data all totaled, but is a good start and far more varied at this early stage than some older codex lists. And the information will only improve once Thade and all of the others finish putting together their armies, playing some games, and sharing their findings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Demandred Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 It will be great once more of us start getting our Draigowing put together and get some extra points of view from batreps. I have been sifting through all the draigowing information I can find in preperation for when I go out and drop ~350 USD on paladins and other stuff. In Thade's defense (even though no one has really attacked him), in all the threads I have read with him posting he has for the most part let it be known that most of his opinions are what he plans on doing once his army is complete. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/2/#findComment-2852313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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