Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 In Thade's defense (even though no one has really attacked him) I kicked him in the nuts the other day.... oh wait, you mean attacked him in this thread. On second thought it wasn't really an attack because he paid me to do it. True story. :P ANYWHOO, when I finally get around to building some GK Paladins / Termies, I'll go play a few games and wow you all with my stunning mediocrity. Since I don't have any Land Raiders or Storm Ravens or DKs, my list at first is going to be either all models in TDA or all TDA plus one or two dreadnaughts.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2852589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I don't think it's often that I talk trash about any particular play style or unit choice; I definitely endeavor to do quite the opposite. I see a lot of merit in everyone's ideas for army composition insofar as Draigo and his boys. Pure Paladins, three DKs, three Riflemen, Librarian, various assassins, Coteaz and Henchmen spam...each of these seems like they could compliment Draigo Wing very well. Each has different strengths, weaknesses, and applications. My favorite part about all of this is that - unlike Nob Bikers, Hammernators, Melta Bike Spam, DoA Armies, etc. - there is not yet a clear go-to choice for the Draigo Wing. What is the "best"? What about it is easy? I'm happy to report that - at least so far - the answers to those questions are "We're not really sure." and "Nothing." That's exciting to me. It's why you guys get all of my blabber here. :P And thank you for the kind words. This remains the best Warhammer forum on the Net. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2852605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Melta Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Well, it looks like I can get Draigo and 2 squads of 10 paladins and 1 squad of 5 in my 2250 goal point list. That's 25 terminators and Draigo, which will run in at about 300 bucks after taxes. I can live with that! Now onto the technical questions. I want to kit them out for awesomeness so keep that in mind. Apothecaries? Do I need 1 in each unit or any at all? I was thinking 1 for Draigo's squad but that was it. That 75 point upgrade is a lot. N. Force swords: while I plan on replacing most of these with halberds hammers and the like, I imagined I would keep a couple for the +1 invulnerable save in close combat. Is that worth it or do the halberds out play the swords hands down. Falchions, I was thinking only two with these, and would prefer only 1. If I take them, do I need to make them both MC? MC psycannons, yes right? Banners re also yeses I assume? Warding staff. I like these and want to use them, I assume they are good, they sound it, but wanted feedback. Well that's about it. MM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Here is how I would build a ten man unit: 1. psycannon & halberd 2. master crafted psycannon & halberd 3. psycannon & daemonhammer 4. master crafted psycannon & daemonhammer 5. halberd 6. master crafted halberd 7. warding stave 8. daemonhammer 9. master crafted daemonhammer 10. Standard bearer Psybolt ammo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 As far as kitting out your squads there are a couple of camps of thought. Here is what my 5 man set up it as I usually combat squad. Psycannon Hammer Psycannon Falchions Falchions Sword Halberd I do use Apothecaries or Banners, though if you choose to use them, then only in a full 10 man squad as it becomes extremely difficult to make them worth their cost unless you happen to know the build you will be facing. There are other threads where these two issues have been debated in length. I've played 32 games with my DriagoWing and have never found myself looking for the points to add either. If you have the points MCing your Psycannons are absolutely fantastic. I do use Falchions, most people will tell you never to field them in favor of halberds or MCed halberds, well I have found the extra attacks invaluable in any prolong assault. Paladins have less need for I6 as the attacks that truly scare them PF equivalents or DCWs won't be prevented from swinging in most cases. Against most other threats the Paladin's incredible resistance(wound allocation, 2W, 2+ AS) is enough to keep them killing. My conversions also look awesome(used the spare swords to convert them into left handed swords). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Here is how I would build a ten man unit: 1. psycannon & halberd 2. master crafted psycannon & halberd 3. psycannon & daemonhammer 4. master crafted psycannon & daemonhammer 5. halberd 6. master crafted halberd 7. warding stave 8. daemonhammer 9. master crafted daemonhammer 10. Standard bearer Psybolt ammo Dude, I'm surprised and disappointed by you! You forgot the evil, borderline hysterical cackling laughter that is mandatory with the creation of a monster! I dunno what the world is coming to... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 * cackles evilly * :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 The 10 man unit I use is quite a bit cut down from that, mainly due to not having the spare points to pimp them out as much as I would like... 1:psycannon hammer 2:psycannon sword 3:psycannon halberd 4:psycannon MC halberd 5:falchion 6:sword 7:halberd 8:halberd 9:MC halberd 10:hammer 2 guys equipped exactly the same, and all for 15 points more then 10 paladins with 4 psycannons (I shall MC the storm bolter on paladin 7 to make them totally unique). I'd love the psybolt upgrade but keep spending the points on other things... A saving of 65 points vs Black Orange's squad if I MC the storm bolter :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is how I have been equipping my paladins which I run without Draigo Psycannon - Halbard MC Psycannon - Halbard Psycannon - Sword Psycannon - Hammer Hammer Sword Banner Halbard Halbard Halbard So except for the 3 halbards there is full wound allocation, the reason I haven't gone to full wound allocation is just a matter of points (or lack there of) I definitely recommend taking the banner if you are taking a ten man unit. Not only ddoes it help with wound allocation and passing force weapon tests, it is also like equipping 7 models with falchion (banners looses 2 power weapon attacks in place of standard CC weapons) which alone is a 45 point cost however you still get the bonus of i6, 4+ invuln or Str 8. If you would ever consider falchions in a ten man unit, the banner is an obvious choice. I have personally never found that I ahve needed the 75 points spent on a Apoc, I generarally find the paladins are taken out by meltas and lascannons not lasguns. Idealy I would set up my 10 man paladin unit like this if I had the points MC Psycannon - MC Halbard MC Psycannon - Halbard Psycannon - Halbard Psycannon - Hammer Hammer Sword Banner Halbard MC Halbard MC Sword Its onyl an extra 20 points, however it's 20 I don't have. Also if you take a lib with might of titan I would only recommend taking 1 hammer as vehicles will be less of a problem. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 To add to that, I have found the best way to support Draigowing or paladins in general is with Psyfulman dreads. Anyone who tells you that they are just a few AV 12 vehicles and will just get shot and destroyed is kidding themselves or has no idea about saturations. 90% of the time the opponents weapons that are effective against the dreads are the same ones that effect the paladins which means they are left with a chjoice of what to shoot. If they attemp to kill the dreads it will leave your paladins unharmed. Not to mention the dreads can get a 4+ cover save from the pallies or even a 3+ with a shrouding lib! Regards Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The Brotherhood banner is too good for me to pass up. As Crynn said it really boosts your number of attacks in melee and it also automatically activates the force weapons... All of this works along with any characters joined to the unit such as a GM and|or Libby. My GM has a psycannon as well so I often split the units so there are three psycannons in one combat squad and two more in the other (including the GM's). I fight against IG a lot and I've found that psybolt ammo works very well on the side armor of chimeras. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 So what is the general opinion of the apothocaries? Paladins with fnp sound pretty sexy to me, but I haven't seen many lists with them in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2853927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 So what is the general opinion of the apothocaries? Paladins with fnp sound pretty sexy to me, but I haven't seen many lists with them in it. An incredibly expensive option. I tend to not think he's worth it ... but then again I don't believe in basing an entire army around paladins to be worth it, so make of that what you will. ;) My reasoning, FWIW, is that it's not small arms fire that hurts paladins. They already have the 2+ save and 2 wounds thing going on. With wound allocation shenanigans, they are just not going to die to standard anti-infantry fire or basic melee attacks. I don't think that FNP is worth the massive tax, therefore. Meanwhile, the things that easily wound or possibly outright kill pallies -- anything AP 1/2 (e.g., plasma, melta), power weapon attacks, instant death attacks (e.g., power fists, thunder hammers) -- are immune to being helped out by the apothecary's FNP bonus as it is. So again from that angle, FNP isn't worth the price you're asked to pay for it. He's cool, that's all the apothecary has going for him. +++++ On the original topic of "how to outfit your pallie squad", I think you gotta do things on the cheap with paladins. Cheapest is bestest. You need to squeeze points out so you can put them elsewhere. Here's how I'd do most 5-man units: psycannon/halberd psycannon/sword or hammer hammer sword halberd Total: 315 pts. It don't get cheaper than that, and it's got everything you could want in it. :) For a 10-man unit ... actually, DON'T run 10-man units! Seriously, don't. There is no reason to. It's not like Draigowing will be giving away KPs that easily. You'll have something like 6, total. ;) And you simply won't have the points to fill up your Troops slots and still have points to spare wishing you had more. Just take multiples of the 5-man unit, you can probably only afford 2 or 3 of them anyway before you realize that you need supporting elements. Like, transport capability, shooting that isn't totally dependent upon psycannons, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If you have a full ten paladins and you take the apothecary, your Paladins become effectively immune to small arms fire. Lasguns, bolt guns, autocannons, you just ignore them. They cannot hurt you. If you don't take the apothecary, you will lose a few paladins to small arms fire...on top of the ones you'll lose to inevitable anti-tank fire. Those who haven't taken apothecaries have reported here to finish each game with one to two paladins left in each unit. Those who take the apothecary have significantly more left alive. Do you need them to still be alive? Not in all cases...but it might be nice to stretch them between control points some times. ;) Also, that is quite a chunk of points you could stick elsewhere. I'll be trying lists with and without the guy in my death star. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hmmm...I was looking at only using 5 man squads and noticing that the apothecaries are taking up a large chunk of points..wasn't sure if it was really worth bothering with though the BA in me LOVES fnp so I was curious what other people's thoughts were Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I concur with #6 thoughts on the apoc... not worth it IMO. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 As a player who only has the one deathstar I find the apothecary useful as the unit atracts ALLOT of smallarms fire and the odds of rolling 1's for the armour save increas with volume of fire. The 4+ back-up save then becomes useful. But as already mentioned if your going all pally then the apothercary isn't as much value for points andlike the psybolts they work best in 10 man squads when you get most bang for your buck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 For a 10-man unit ... actually, DON'T run 10-man units! Seriously, don't. There is no reason to. It's not like Draigowing will be giving away KPs that easily. You'll have something like 6, total. :P And you simply won't have the points to fill up your Troops slots and still have points to spare wishing you had more. Just take multiples of the 5-man unit, you can probably only afford 2 or 3 of them anyway before you realize that you need supporting elements. Like, transport capability, shooting that isn't totally dependent upon psycannons, etc. Right now they are undeniably effective but I feel they will be obsolete (ish) soon enough. After all, myself and others are already discussing the best ways to beat them and they haven't been involved in a major tournament yet! When a new Codex comes out or someone get's hit by 3 Demolisher Cannons in a single turn then even Draigo might want something else in his army list! Of course that doesn't take away from the guys using this list right now, they are doing very well for themselves and might just have a permanently effective army here they can work with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 10 man wins over 5 man's if you are going pure Draigo, as combat squading combined with grand strategy is nice. Apoth, for me personal teleporter is so much more worth while, as much as the idea of feel no pain apeals to me, my chaos force is nurgle heavy ;) Yes demolisher's hurt, but also have the same range as psycannons. And that is of course not counting on reserves, cover or other units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I am currently running a GM, Libby, 5 Paladins and 2x10 men GKT squads. This is working lots better for me - even more effective. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 You guys have no idea how close I am to collection a Grey Knights Draigo Wing army! I just see everyone enjoying having an army that actually plays like it does in the fluff (rock hard but massively outnumbered!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 You guys have no idea how close I am to collection a Grey Knights Draigo Wing army! I just see everyone enjoying having an army that actually plays like it does in the fluff (rock hard but massively outnumbered!). That is what I've wanted since I first started playing. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 You guys have no idea how close I am to collection a Grey Knights Draigo Wing army! I just see everyone enjoying having an army that actually plays like it does in the fluff (rock hard but massively outnumbered!). Its the reason I bought my 2500pt army in one go....before the codex was released! An army of heroes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The army is dull to play in some ragards as the paladins are just slow and there aren't many tricks to using them however they are fun as it ilike watching a little movie as they wade through battle seeming impervious to the enemy HA HA Ha. I always imagine them chuckling as they walk through a horde of orks. On a side note I have found the apoc a bit over costed. I also play with other units in my army such as strike knights which small arms fire can hurt so whenever my paladins get shot with lasguns or things of that nature I am happy it isnt my strike knights. In some ways I am baiting them to shooting a unit that is already very resiliant to small arms fire by not taking the apoc. Just another way of looking at it. The apoc becomes somewhat better if your entire army is vehicles and paladins as the only thing the small arms fire can hurt technically is the paladins so they may see themselves facing a torrent of bolters and thus the apoc may make his worth. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Halbard Psyfulman dreads. First of all: It's Halberd. And Psyfleman (as it is a contraction of Psybolt Rifleman). Courtesy of the speeling Nahzi B ) I don't think the Apothecary is worth it in most cases. Too expensive of an upgrade in an already expensive unit. 3rd) I am leaning towards Black Orange's idea of a non-Draigowing with one squad of Paladins. Maybe I am just a wimp, but the tiny number of models from a pure Draigowing scares me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236494-i-want-draigowing/page/3/#findComment-2854647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.