I want DraigoWing

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

GKT are very good if you arm them with halberds, daemonhammers and psycannons. We're talking about a unit that is I6 and S5 in melee courtesy of Hammerhand. They will quickly cut through most any power armored unit such as assault or tactical Marines. If you take full squads and break them into combat squads you're getting psybolt ammo for basically half the cost. You can field a full squad of ten GKT armed with two psycannons, two daemonhammers and eight halberds plus psybolt ammo for around 470 points... So a combat squad with four halberds, one daemonhammer, one psycannon and psybolt ammo is around 235 points. That's a lot of value there. I was never a fan of combat squads until I started playing Grey Knights - I find it works best for this army. Psybolt ammo can penetrate side armor on Chimeras and glance rhinos. You stop the enemy transports before they get in close and you've won. IG vets are only effective inside 12" range - outside of that they are harmless for all intensive purposes. It's basically the same with Marines except for their heavy weapons.

 

A squad of five Paladins is all you need for a retinue plus you get the two psycannons which is really good. Taking a large concentration of GKT means you have a larger army and can bring more firepower to bare. As far as shooting goes both the Paladin and GKT are BS4 - they fire the same weapons so there is no difference there.

 

G :devil:

[Crynn]

Halbard

 

Psyfulman dreads.

 

First of all: It's Halberd. And Psyfleman (as it is a contraction of Psybolt Rifleman). Courtesy of the speeling Nahzi

 

B ) I don't think the Apothecary is worth it in most cases. Too expensive of an upgrade in an already expensive unit.

 

3rd) I am leaning towards Black Orange's idea of a non-Draigowing with one squad of Paladins. Maybe I am just a wimp, but the tiny number of models from a pure Draigowing scares me.

 

Sorry i don't know why i wrote it that way I haven't written psyfulman before but needless to say when I write on ym phone I rarely check for errors through my smashed screen. I personally play with one unit of paladins without draigo and ahve great success with it. I am 8 from 8 games. You definitley don't need draigo to make paladins work.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[nurglez]

Though If you want as small and elite a force as possible, then having paladins as your only scoring models is a fun way to go too, and requires Draigo :D

 

I do find it interesting how many varied ways there are to use paladins in a grey knight force, and what to use to support them. Some of us love DK's while others love dread's, or vindicares, or henchmen, or interceptors, or.....etc.

[Master Melta]

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

I got the codex as previously mentioned. I wanted to read all about it and to see if after reading, if the lust of the army would wear off. I'm afraid it won't and hasn't at least not yet.

 

So, with that in mind, I have decided to build the aforementioned list of 25 Paladins and Draigo.

 

I do have a couple of comments and a few more questions as a result.

 

Falchions: It looks like these aren't needed by more than 1 or 2 Paladins but they should be in squads that contain a brotherhood banner. 5 attacks on the charge, 4 if charged, will help when faced with overwhelming odds, like beastpacks and orks.

 

Warding Staves: I was initially concerned with these not being used in combat other than defensively, but they are still force weapons. Having a 2++ save in a unit will really help if that PK Nob is still around of if facing a tough dread that the halberds don't take down. Bonus: it's a cool bit!

 

NFSwords: Same as the staves, no real added offensive output but increasing that 5++ to a 4++ in combat will help shoulder Power Fists/Thunder Hammers/etc.

 

Psycannons: These are obviously a must but I don't think I will exlude incinerators. I may run that 5 man unit as a deep striking double incinerator unit. (I need to find a way to fit in deviation prevention!)

 

Apothecaries: I think I will take just one of these in the unit with Draigo. I don't want to spend the points on 2 or 3 of them and it looks like unless I am faced with an abnormal amount of small arms fire(Blob squad) I won't need them.

 

Well that's it. When I get them completed and have a game or two with them, I'll let everyone know how they turn out.

 

Thanks again and keep this discussion open if needed.

 

MM

[thade]

lol, oh man. Against a Green Tide, two 10-man Pally Deathstars each with an Apothecary would effectively be invincible. I bet you might lose a single model per unit by game's end. Ludicrous.

 

Welcome to the fold, MM. ;) You should jump into the Nurglez Draigo Wing discussion thread to share with us your adventures.

[Zagman]

lol, oh man. Against a Green Tide, two 10-man Pally Deathstars each with an Apothecary would effectively be invincible. I bet you might lose a single model per unit by game's end. Ludicrous.

 

Welcome to the fold, MM. :lol: You should jump into the Nurglez Draigo Wing discussion thread to share with us your adventures.

 

He'd lose more overall to the hidden PK nobz, which the Apothecary won't help against...

[thade]

lol, oh man. Against a Green Tide, two 10-man Pally Deathstars each with an Apothecary would effectively be invincible. I bet you might lose a single model per unit by game's end. Ludicrous.

 

Welcome to the fold, MM. :lol: You should jump into the Nurglez Draigo Wing discussion thread to share with us your adventures.

 

He'd lose more overall to the hidden PK nobz, which the Apothecary won't help against...

He'll have the 2++ Warding Stave model in there to mitigate that somewhat, and can engage one of them at least with Draigo himself (taking care to keep other Paladins out of BtB with the klaw model). This is all assuming he doesn't take a Vindicare to cap those beasties pre-assault.

 

Just because there's one thing that ignores the Apothecary doesn't mean he should be dropped. These are Orks so we're talking buckets-o-dice on the charge. 2+/4+ will mean he hits you with incredibly few of those swings.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The warding stave is golden. One game I was playing against BA. I knew a Furioso with talons was going to get the charge the next turn - nothing I could do to prevent that so I moved my GKT into cover so my daemonhammer could swing simo - I activated Hammerhand and the hammer destroyed the dread, the stave cut off the extra attacks. I ended up only losing three GKT... otherwise the dread would have probably mulched the entire unit.

 

G

[Zagman]

He'll have the 2++ Warding Stave model in there to mitigate that somewhat, and can engage one of them at least with Draigo himself (taking care to keep other Paladins out of BtB with the klaw model). This is all assuming he doesn't take a Vindicare to cap those beasties pre-assault.

 

Just because there's one thing that ignores the Apothecary doesn't mean he should be dropped. These are Orks so we're talking buckets-o-dice on the charge. 2+/4+ will mean he hits you with incredibly few of those swings.

 

Any how an all reasonable probability would you ever be able to deny a smart ork player from only getting their PK into B2B with only Driago? That is extremely difficult to pull off and cannot be relied upon due to the nature of Assault phase movement. Also, this Driago, Libby, Apoth, Warding Stave, Psycannon, Dealthstar you keep using as your theoretical model is nearly 1200pts and worth neary 180 boyz and 6 hidden klaws!

 

In DriagoWing there will be units that cannot benefit from Driago, or a Libby, etc. Paladins are very effective units in their own right without all of the shiny bits. In 95% of the scenarios you run into(cue arbitrary percentage) you won't need all of the bling. Paladins can handle most threats in their own right, and efficient frugal use of your points allows you to ultimately put more models on the table, something DriagoWing desperately needs. An Apothecary, Banner, and Stave costs more than 2 paladins. In many games and situations they just arent' worth it IMO.

 

number6 talked about it earlier and is pretty much right on the money. DriagoWing suffers from having too few units capable of dealing damage per turn. You simply cannot kill enough units against MSU enemy tactics with a good general. A Driago/Libby/Paladin/Apothecary Deathstar is a fantastic unit in its own right, but likely can only kill 1 unit per turn, MAX(And thanks to the nature of dice it doesn't always work out that way, i.e. today I fired 16 psycannon shots at a Vendetta and did nothing more than a pair of Can't shoots, and that was without cover!). Alot of the time you will need to combat squad to maximize the number of units you can threaten as well as objectives you can contest or hold, even in some KP missions depending on the enemy!

 

There is so much more to a DriagoWing army than a single deathstar. At times keeping that deathstar together can cost you the game depending on the mission, table, and opponent.

[Crynn]

He'll have the 2++ Warding Stave model in there to mitigate that somewhat, and can engage one of them at least with Draigo himself (taking care to keep other Paladins out of BtB with the klaw model). This is all assuming he doesn't take a Vindicare to cap those beasties pre-assault.

 

Just because there's one thing that ignores the Apothecary doesn't mean he should be dropped. These are Orks so we're talking buckets-o-dice on the charge. 2+/4+ will mean he hits you with incredibly few of those swings.

 

Any how an all reasonable probability would you ever be able to deny a smart ork player from only getting their PK into B2B with only Driago? That is extremely difficult to pull off and cannot be relied upon due to the nature of Assault phase movement. Also, this Driago, Libby, Apoth, Warding Stave, Psycannon, Dealthstar you keep using as your theoretical model is nearly 1200pts and worth neary 180 boyz and 6 hidden klaws!

 

In DriagoWing there will be units that cannot benefit from Driago, or a Libby, etc. Paladins are very effective units in their own right without all of the shiny bits. In 95% of the scenarios you run into(cue arbitrary percentage) you won't need all of the bling. Paladins can handle most threats in their own right, and efficient frugal use of your points allows you to ultimately put more models on the table, something DriagoWing desperately needs. An Apothecary, Banner, and Stave costs more than 2 paladins. In many games and situations they just arent' worth it IMO.

 

number6 talked about it earlier and is pretty much right on the money. DriagoWing suffers from having too few units capable of dealing damage per turn. You simply cannot kill enough units against MSU enemy tactics with a good general. A Driago/Libby/Paladin/Apothecary Deathstar is a fantastic unit in its own right, but likely can only kill 1 unit per turn, MAX(And thanks to the nature of dice it doesn't always work out that way, i.e. today I fired 16 psycannon shots at a Vendetta and did nothing more than a pair of Can't shoots, and that was without cover!). Alot of the time you will need to combat squad to maximize the number of units you can threaten as well as objectives you can contest or hold, even in some KP missions depending on the enemy!

 

There is so much more to a DriagoWing army than a single deathstar. At times keeping that deathstar together can cost you the game depending on the mission, table, and opponent.

 

+1 though I rate the banner much more highly than you in 10 man units even if you know you will combat squad sometimes.

 

MY 10 man paladin unit doesnt even run with draigo I just use a reg GM with grenades to make them scoring and believe me those grenades mean my paladin unit would smash a 10 man with the apoc lib and draigo in it, it's just too many points. At 1750 I also have a land raider coteaz DCAs with a mystic and banisher 10 strike knights and a ven dread so I am not just left with the normal of 10 man death star with lib and draigo + 1 paldain for scoring and a dread knight. I agree with Zagman that sometimes all the extras are just not needed for paladins theya re amazing even at just 655 with 4 psycannons and a banner chuck in 15pts for MC weapons for full wound all and you have 10 paladins that are almost half the cost of the above preposed death star.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Noober]

I agree with Zagman. It depends so much from the list, terrain, opponent etc. if it's worth taking the upgrades. My list consists only from a one big squad of paladins with a libby + draigo and I've got say that only the warding stave has been pretty much worthless. Apo + banner have been worth the points.

 

If you run a 5man squad or are planning to combat squad in every game, then only warding stave might be worth it imo. Apothecary is too pricey for 5man squads and banner doesn't boost enough to be worth the points. Only warding stave gets more value when the squad is smaller. Although I consider warding stave the worst upgrade after psybolt ammunition and wouldn't probably take it even in a 5man squad.

 

Then again if you have 2 10man paladin squads in your list, then I would try to keep the upgrades minimal. Maybe just banner for each.

 

Number6 is right about the problem of not having enough actions/turn to even touch the other players whole army without multiple assaults.

[Crynn]

I agree with Zagman. It depends so much from the list, terrain, opponent etc. if it's worth taking the upgrades. My list consists only from a one big squad of paladins with a libby + draigo and I've got say that only the warding stave has been pretty much worthless. Apo + banner have been worth the points.

 

If you run a 5man squad or are planning to combat squad in every game, then only warding stave might be worth it imo. Apothecary is too pricey for 5man squads and banner doesn't boost enough to be worth the points. Only warding stave gets more value when the squad is smaller. Although I consider warding stave the worst upgrade after psybolt ammunition and wouldn't probably take it even in a 5man squad.

 

Then again if you have 2 10man paladin squads in your list, then I would try to keep the upgrades minimal. Maybe just banner for each.

 

Number6 is right about the problem of not having enough actions/turn to even touch the other players whole army without multiple assaults.

 

This list got boring quick but it was just hell for some people.

 

Draigo

 

Librarian with shrouding, sanctuary and might of titan

 

Paladin unit of 10

3x halbard, hammer, sword, banner, psycannon, sword, psycannon halbard x 2, psycannon hammer.

 

Paladin unit of 10

3x halbard, hammer, sword, banner, psycannon, sword, psycannon halbard x 2, psycannon hammer.

 

1750pts

 

Yeah 20 paladins with draigo and a lib with the required powers

 

 

Regards,

Crynn

[BrotherWasted]

number6 talked about it earlier and is pretty much right on the money. DriagoWing suffers from having too few units capable of dealing damage per turn. You simply cannot kill enough units against MSU enemy tactics with a good general. A Driago/Libby/Paladin/Apothecary Deathstar is a fantastic unit in its own right, but likely can only kill 1 unit per turn, MAX(And thanks to the nature of dice it doesn't always work out that way, i.e. today I fired 16 psycannon shots at a Vendetta and did nothing more than a pair of Can't shoots, and that was without cover!). Alot of the time you will need to combat squad to maximize the number of units you can threaten as well as objectives you can contest or hold, even in some KP missions depending on the enemy!

 

Largely irrelevant. Combat Squadding is a good thing.

 

One kill point a turn is more than enough to win you the game, especially when in order to win via kill points, many armies have to table you.

 

Remember, to even get a single kill point, he has to wipe out 10 Paladins. 20 Wounds, against 2W terminators with cover saves and probably Feel No Pain. All you have to do is pop a transport a turn. Even if you only end up with 4 Kill points by the end of the game, they're still going to have a tough time matching that in a Draigo list.

 

I simply cannot count the number of games where I've won the game on kill points simply because the enemy cannot entirely wipe out a 10-man squad of Paladins in time.

[Noober]

Yeah it is a bit boring but not as much as an MSU spam list imo! :)

[Crynn]

msu spam as in 5 man quad transport?

[thade]

Speaking from experience, no, it's definitely not easy to tie up that power klaw every time. Not impossible though. Even if you don't, you'll lose like one Paladin a turn (two swings, fists often miss for some reason, 5++ invuln...not terrible odds for your paladins) and in return kill a LOT of orks and Nobs. So many (with WS5 S6) that it will behoove you to multi-charge or even be charged (buckets of dice don't scare your apothecary-buffed unit, right? :yes: ) as when you are charged you'll do 30 force weapon attacks at those stats. This is all discounting pre-charge shooting that you'll be doing with your 24" range...24" shooting that APs them. That 30-boy unit will not be 30-strong when it gets to you...and you'll overwhelm it with I6 force weapon attacks. The Klaw may never swing at all.

 

I'm excited to take those chances, frankly. It feels very fluffy to me. I said more than once that the only GKs that would make sense to me would be multi-wound and wound-allocated...and that's precisely what this codex gave me. I have to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and run that very unit. And so I will.

 

Still at 9 models assembled and mostly painted; I've jumped to speed-assembling a Dwarf force to try Fantasy with the club. (Game interests shift seasonally around here.)

[CuddlesHeretics]

I'm considering Draigowing as well, but I want some standard grey knight models as well, seen as I love them :)

 

I also want Loganwing ;)

 

edit: they can all deepstrike, just realised.... :D

[Zagman]

Thade, I have never said a Driago Deathstar can't handle a 30 boy mob, it can, easily! But, even without a Librarian you are talking about 4 boy mobz and Ghazgul(Who runs GreenTide without him, really) for the same number of points. That means in all likelihood you aren't the charger, and they are the one who can multicharge you. There is so much more to a DriagoWing list than rolling around a DeathStar.

 

BrotherWasted, That comment wasn't solely in regards to KP missions. There are also KP missions where combat squadding is beneficial as well. For example any Ard Boyz mission where taking the bonus battle points may be important. Any army with enough vehicles to to throw that ~8% chance of being tank shocked off the table at that deathstar is one example where combat squadding for more targets per turn is very beneficial. Or in a KP mission against Blaster Spam DE for example. If you don't combat squad and kill as many units per turn as possible neutralizing as many blasters/DLs per turn as possible they will wipe you off of the table. Not irrelevant.

[Crynn]

I agree. A major draw back with the 10 paladins with draigo and an apoc is that the unit needs to stay as a ten man to properly utilize them. As soon as the squad splits half the unit has no storm shield to benefit or apothacary. This means when the enemy has too many targets you either split the paladins to gain better offensive efficincy buy loose quite a hefty level of resilience or keepthem together knowing you can really only kill one unit a turn. That is one reason j don't run draigo or an apoc as it means a loose very little if I feel the need to combat squad my 10 paladins.

 

I really feel this thread is on of few threads that has solid advice the whole way through, new players can just get 20 pages on 'how to build and play a draigo list'

 

Regards

Crynn