new to grey knights

[Castellan Alaric]

so i'm a black templars player who is looking for a little change of scenery. i have always held the grey knights in high regard, though never really looked into how you could field them and i have to say i'm impressed. i just was curious what direction you guys think is a decent way to start? i find that i like the power armoured grey knights over terms cuz terms are so damned expensive...it's awesome that you just buy a grey knight box and can make 4 different squads from it. bt's having to buy a tac box + an upgrade to do what you want...anywho any suggestions? i'm gonna be running friendly 1k-1.5k matches

[nurglez]

Termies may be expensive, but they are also way more cost effective then power armoured guys (money wise at least). As I also love small elite forces I went for Draigo wing. There are quite a few "lists" out there, some revolving around special chars (draigo, Coteaz, Mordrak and Crowe) and then others that just have different combinations (mostly termies, mostly strikes, or minimum troops and a grandmaster to make a large squad of interceptors/purifers/paladins scoring in objective games).

 

You can go mech, or foot slog (mech is better but I prefer foot slogging/deep striking for terminators). It really is down to how you want to play.

[thade]

Short answer: If you like PAGK, do it up. They can be very effective and a lot of fun to model and paint. ;)

 

Foot-slogging can work regardless of your majority infantry choice, because of their 24" on-the-move engagement range. (Storm bolters are fantastic.) You're going to want your guys on foot early anyway to leverage your psycannons against enemy transports. Once they're on foot too, they're in your world. Kite them and shoot them until they die from it.

 

Were I about to start and not sure where, I'd buy one terminator box and four strike squad boxes. I'd build two Strike Squads and use the terminators to build a Bro Capt/Grand Master or a Libby and try them out. (Might seem expensive, but you get all the options you need for those IC choices and can make up to five for like $12/model, as opposed to $15-$20 models.)

[number6]

There's no obvious starting-off point for building a decent GK army. So I can only offer my opinion of where I think you just can't go wrong.

 

Firstly, I would recommend actually developing the army list (or lists) that you want to play before buying anything. If you are looking for 1000 pt and 1500 pt games, build at least one 1000 pt and one 1500 pt army list. Assuming you're looking to save money, try and make everything you intend to use for your 1000 pt army available for use in your 1500 pt army list. One caveat, however: 1000 pt 40K games are very different from 1500 pt games, so this goal is not always plausible. E.g., if for some reason you really like Draigo and want an army based around him ... well, you'll almost certainly have to have a non-Draigo non-Paladin army for 1000 pts just because you can't really get a playable force with Draigo at such a small points level. (And I must admit to being skeptical that you can make "Draigowing" effective at anything less than 1750 pts.)

 

Nevertheless, when designing your armies, don't refrain from picking the units that you find cool. :D You're going to be spending a lot of time with these models, make sure they're ones you like.

 

After you design the list, post it up for feedback in our army list discussion subforum. When designing a list, remember that you want something that can play a strong game in all three phases of the game, Movement, Shooting, and Assault.

 

Going all-footslogger, for example, means you're playing rather poorly and limitedly (is that a word?! :P ) in the Movement phase. That is only going to be acceptable if you have the inherent resilience to weather multiple enemy turns of shooting to whittle you down. (So don't go walking your power-armoured guys without the support of lots and lots of terminators. Or just go all Terminator!) Otherwise you'll want to invest in things that allow you to play the game in the Movement Phase. You'll want transport vehicles and/or jump troops and/or multiple deep striking units. The proper mix will be up to you and how you intend for your army to function.

 

Same goes for the Shooting and Assault phases. You'll require weapons that let you shoot down anything an opponent can field, from basic infantry to heavy infantry (e.g., enemy Terminators), monstrous creatures, light transports, and even land raiders. Generally speaking, the GKs got the infantry-killing shooting covered with their basic kit, so what you need are the upgraded weapons that let you tackle the other targets. Generally, this means psycannons and/or the inclusion of melta/plasma-toting Inquisitorial henchman.

 

As for Assault, GKs are no slouches, but neither are they all that awesome, if only because of limited numbers. So you'll want to have some kind of actual assault threat spread throughout your army. Have multiple units that you feel can wade into enemy units, be they infantry or monsters, and stand a reasonable chance of acquitting themselves well. It's either that or an investment into a singular "death star" unit. At 1000 pts, you won't be able to get a death star. At 1500 pts, you can get a smallish one, but at the expense of decent assault anywhere else in the army. (Assuming you're still spending points on your other two game phases, of course.) Whether you focus or distribute assault potential is, again, up to how you want to play your army. The GK codex has the models and wargear and units in nice little Lego bricks that you can combine together in almost any way you like.

 

Finally, listen to what people have to say about the "good" or "obvious" choices in the codex with a grain of salt. It's not that psyflemen aren't awesome -- they so clearly are -- but that obvious utility doesn't make them required. I've designed very effective army lists without a single dreadnought in them, for example (though -- full disclosure -- I actually really like dreads so most of what I run has them :) ). Similarly, take what people say about what isn't "good" with a grain of salt. Many people are willing to fight over the assertion that Purifiers are just "better in every way" compared to Strikers. But the fact is, they are very different units that not only take up different Force Org slots -- a key consideration when building any army is managing your capabilities across your Force Org chart -- but they perform very different roles. Just look at their stats, special powers and rules, and that should be obvious. "Different" does not equate to "bad". :)

 

This is way more than I intended to write. I hope I didn't bore you and that you found it helpful. Welcome aboard! :)

[Castellan Alaric]

definitely not boring number6, but helpful! on thing that stinks about gk is that you have to purchase them in such small quantities, now termies are that way for everyone, but it's like buying an assault squad box for all of your troops. aggrivating? certainly. necissary? right again. i'm probably going to go with thade's idea of buying 4 gk boxes and 1 term box. sounds like a decent plan and could get me started playing. now, it's gonna be awhile before i actually get my hands on some models, but having a plan is never a bad idea rigth? :) i'm thinking a bigger strike squad with (i think) a purgation squad (the guys who can take more special/heavies) for support, along with the hq slot from the term box. just a small-ish 500-750 points worth to start out with i think is where it would round out to. i do love that halberds let you attack with i6, just freakin crazy awesome. thanks for the help guys, much obliged.

[thade]

So, this is something I've seen before:

 

A player says "I kind of want to try a Dark Elf army. I wonder how they work? Hey, you mind if I proxy an army right now?"

 

Another player says "Sure, I'll throw my dwarves on the table."

 

The first player tears up chunks of paper and writes the number of troops he has in each block on each; sets them up and plays with paper scraps to see if he likes the army.

 

Now...this particular example works very well for fantasy (as most of your units are arranged in phalanxes) but in 40k your units move fluidly, i.e. not in boxes. <_< However, if you already have a 40k army, proxy it up. Find a player local to you who's willing to let you do it and have a friendly game, trying out models as if they're the ones you want to buy and make some concessions so it's both fair and you get a good feel for how things will really be. For instance, if you proxy a Dreadnought for a Dreadknight, you'll have to pretend it's taller than it really is the entire game for LOS; Drop Pods done as coffee cans, pretend the can's not there for LOS; etc.

[Castellan Alaric]

thanks thade that's not a bad idea man. i feel like a rifle dread w/psybolts would be solid as well, even though i imagine it would cost a lot. only prob is getting the arms...i saw a tip of using the aegis line autocannons and cutting them off and gluing them on a cut off lasC/missle pods. decent conversion? i'm gonna do my best here in the next month to get the codex, but 40k space marine(xbox) drops sept 6 and i have to pay that off first. textbooks for college kill me man, though i got off with an easy $175 this semester. i'll put up a list here in the next few days to see what you guys think, thanks again for the help fellas. much obliged

[thade]

i feel like a rifle dread w/psybolts would be solid...

Four S8 shots, TL, at 48"? They're very reliable Rhino poppers and can ID 2w troops. They're very popular right now. Many GK lists I've seen take two or three.

 

only prob is getting the arms...i saw a tip of using the aegis line autocannons...

I bought this kit (split it with a guy that wanted the walls), cut off the TL autocannon guns, dremelled their sockets a bit bigger and bam...they fit right on the Dread arm nobs. Easiest conversion yet.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Now...this particular example works very well for fantasy (as most of your units are arranged in phalanxes) but in 40k your units move fluidly, i.e. not in boxes. :) However, if you already have a 40k army, proxy it up. Find a player local to you who's willing to let you do it and have a friendly game, trying out models as if they're the ones you want to buy and make some concessions so it's both fair and you get a good feel for how things will really be. For instance, if you proxy a Dreadnought for a Dreadknight, you'll have to pretend it's taller than it really is the entire game for LOS; Drop Pods done as coffee cans, pretend the can's not there for LOS; etc.

 

That's how my mate did his Daemons, i spent a month fighting chaos marines pretending to be bloodletters and dreadnoughts pretending to be bloodthirsters.

He liked the feel of it and now he has a full daemon army.

 

I did the coke can method for my Space Wolf drop pod army till i figured out how many pods I really needed.

 

It helps when you havea friendly game enviroment where peole don't mind this sort of thing, saves allot of money.

[Crynn]

Short answer: If you like PAGK, do it up. They can be very effective and a lot of fun to model and paint. :P

 

Foot-slogging can work regardless of your majority infantry choice, because of their 24" on-the-move engagement range. (Storm bolters are fantastic.) You're going to want your guys on foot early anyway to leverage your psycannons against enemy transports. Once they're on foot too, they're in your world. Kite them and shoot them until they die from it.

 

Were I about to start and not sure where, I'd buy one terminator box and four strike squad boxes. I'd build two Strike Squads and use the terminators to build a Bro Capt/Grand Master or a Libby and try them out. (Might seem expensive, but you get all the options you need for those IC choices and can make up to five for like $12/model, as opposed to $15-$20 models.)

 

 

Pretty much the best info you will be given.

 

Try out your GM and Libs first with an assortment of strikes purifiers and interceptors. This is good advice and insures you don't waste money on models you won't use.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Castellan Alaric]

thanks fellas, the help is GREATLY appreciated. my buddy is starting wolves so i think we'll have to proxy some of my bt's as gk and wolves ;) should make for some interesting fights. the AC conversion sounds great, as i think that same buddy has a dremmel (i don't...). i'll proxy some stuff out and see whats what and put a list up here whenever i can get around to buying the codex...damn university book stores and their outrageous price markups...