Seahawk Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Here's a question: Can a dreadnought that's currently embarked upon a Storm Raven use its smoke launchers? Related rules - May use smoke after its move (p.62) - If using smoke, cannot shoot (p.62) - Can use smoke even if it has not or cannot move (BRB FAQ p.4) The question came up in a game tonight and we ruled one way on the fly just to keep the game moving, but... I don't see a reason why a dreadnought can't use smoke launchers while embarked. The most obvious advantage is if the Raven gets shot down, then the dreadnought still gets an automatic cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I also cannot think of any reason a Dreadnought embarked in a Stormraven would not be allowed to use smoke launchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I wouldnt see the logic in getting cover save for an embarked DN using smoke when the Storm Raven is moving... Wouldnt it get a cover save for being obscured attached to the SR's aft hookup? Unless maybe shooting it from the side or rear... I just think the smoke is a ground effect cover for a DN that intends to move through or into it for cover and wouldnt be useful when attached to a SR that is moving. I would see the applicable benefits when the SR is not moving, however, and wouldnt have an issue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I wouldnt see the logic in getting cover save for an embarked DN using smoke when the Storm Raven is moving... Wouldnt it get a cover save for being obscured attached to the SR's aft hookup? Unless maybe shooting it from the side or rear... I just think the smoke is a ground effect cover for a DN that intends to move through or into it for cover and wouldnt be useful when attached to a SR that is moving. I would see the applicable benefits when the SR is not moving, however, and wouldnt have an issue with that. It cannot be targeted by shooting because it is embarked. The benefit in being able to use smoke launchers on a Dreadnought embarked in a Stormraven is that if the Stormraven is destroyed the Dreadnought will count as obscured from any additional shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Wow, wouldnt it be obscurred already from the wrecked SR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Possibly, so long as the Raven didn't explode instead. In that case the Dread is out in the open, since it can't be obscured by the resulting crater. Legal, but VERY niche move. Also, the ocver save won't protect you against the S4 hit as a result of an Explode result so you can have your Dread Immobilized and therefore destroyed on a string of 6s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Also funny if you pop Smoke on the Dread and the Raven doesn't get popped that turn. He's just a smoking ball on the backside of the flyer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytool Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Also funny if you pop Smoke on the Dread and the Raven doesn't get popped that turn. He's just a smoking ball on the backside of the flyer... didn't know the Emperor's finest did a air show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 As it was, that would have been beneficial to me for him to have popped smoke when he asked...I didn't even target the Storm Raven that turn ;). Ah well. I'll let him know that it seems to be a valid tactic in all respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Can a dread pop smoke if it is otherwise not allowed to shoot? I think that may have been addressed in an FAQ at some point, but I am not certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Sure. They can pop smoke if they're Stunned, for instance. Smoke is not a Shooting action; it is an action taken during the Shooting phase that prevents you from Shooting. If something else is preventing you from Shooting, it's not preventing you from popping Smoke. Make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 More fuel for the fire: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=218809 It does not look like a solid agreement was reached there either but like here I would say the consensus is to allow it. So here is something else to ponder. If the Storm Raven is shot down after the dread popped smoke, wouldn't the dread be placed on the board and under the smoke? This made me wonder about anything else that could move a vehicle after it used smoke and magna-grapple came to mind. Now the old debate on that is usually can you use a cover save if the grapple does not glance or pen but that is not the point here. Can you pull a vehicle out of its smoke and into the open or does the smoke follow the unit? I will tell you that I think the smoke moves with the vehicle because it has smoke launchers, not smoke grenade launchers. The smoke is continuously being emitted from the tubes. I also do not see any reason why the dread could not use the smoke. I do wonder if it would be effective. If the question of smoke staying with a vehicle that has been physically moved has already been answered I would go with that as precedent for the dreadnought falling to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 More fuel for the fire:http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=218809 It does not look like a solid agreement was reached there either but like here I would say the consensus is to allow it. Your search-fu is strong! :) So here is something else to ponder. If the Storm Raven is shot down after the dread popped smoke, wouldn't the dread be placed on the board and under the smoke? This made me wonder about anything else that could move a vehicle after it used smoke and magna-grapple came to mind. Now the old debate on that is usually can you use a cover save if the grapple does not glance or pen but that is not the point here. Can you pull a vehicle out of its smoke and into the open or does the smoke follow the unit? I will tell you that I think the smoke moves with the vehicle because it has smoke launchers, not smoke grenade launchers. The smoke is continuously being emitted from the tubes. I also do not see any reason why the dread could not use the smoke. I do wonder if it would be effective. If the question of smoke staying with a vehicle that has been physically moved has already been answered I would go with that as precedent for the dreadnought falling to the ground. There is nothing in the rules to suggest that the effect from smoke launchers is treated like a static effect, such as terrain, or a template. A Dreadnought that uses its smoke launchers is obscured during the next enemy shooting phase, regardless of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 There is nothing in the rules to suggest that the effect from smoke launchers is treated like a static effect, such as terrain, or a template. A Dreadnought that uses its smoke launchers is obscured during the next enemy shooting phase, regardless of movement. Look at the Baal predator. Can smoke on a scout move, then move, then shoot, then be obscured on the next turn. I see no reason a dread can't smoke while embarked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 They're smoke launchers...these things really exist! They fire smoke grenades. :lol: And they don't just drop them at their feet...they pick a point between themselves and their enemies and set up a screen there. Easy enough to imagine a Dread or Baal Pred firing smoke way ahead of them and still rushing up there. In fact, it's smart to change position after deploying smoke, so the enemy loses track of you. As for firing the smoke launchers from the hooks on the Storm Raven, why not? This is the remains of a genetically engineered super soldier strapped into a giant walking sarcophagus. He's probably a darn good shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 More fuel for the fire:http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=218809 It does not look like a solid agreement was reached there either but like here I would say the consensus is to allow it. Your search-fu is strong! :lol: So here is something else to ponder. If the Storm Raven is shot down after the dread popped smoke, wouldn't the dread be placed on the board and under the smoke? This made me wonder about anything else that could move a vehicle after it used smoke and magna-grapple came to mind. Now the old debate on that is usually can you use a cover save if the grapple does not glance or pen but that is not the point here. Can you pull a vehicle out of its smoke and into the open or does the smoke follow the unit? I will tell you that I think the smoke moves with the vehicle because it has smoke launchers, not smoke grenade launchers. The smoke is continuously being emitted from the tubes. I also do not see any reason why the dread could not use the smoke. I do wonder if it would be effective. If the question of smoke staying with a vehicle that has been physically moved has already been answered I would go with that as precedent for the dreadnought falling to the ground. There is nothing in the rules to suggest that the effect from smoke launchers is treated like a static effect, such as terrain, or a template. A Dreadnought that uses its smoke launchers is obscured during the next enemy shooting phase, regardless of movement. Also, the Dreadnought will retain its Cover Save regardless of how windy it is on the battlefield on that particular day. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Also, the Dreadnought will retain its Cover Save regardless of how windy it is on the battlefield on that particular day. ...or if it has an atmosphere at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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