T3mpl@r Crusade Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hey guys, In my last game I ran a dual storm raven setup in a 2k point game against one of my local area's regulars who is quite competetive. He was running space wolves with a squad of long fangs equipped with plasma cannons. They were quite scary since I was running a termy heavy army. Anyway, one of the issues we though of was placing the blast templates over the storm ravens. He was attempting to shoot them down since he couldn't draw line of sight to any of my terminators. Since the ride height of the storm raven is very tall, we were trying to think of how a scatter off the hull of the storm raven would effect surrounding units. Because the height is so tall, we decided that in the event a template scatters off the storm raven, it would effect the level adjacent to the hull, like second or third floors, but it would not spill over onto the ground. We were thinking that the plasma has a straight shot, and does not lob like a mortar. For shots that fall as a barrage, if the center hole missed the hull the shot would hit the ground. This is how we played, but I am wondering what your interpretation of such a tall model is, clearly your not aiming at the base, but the hull of the vehicle. How would you have played this through? and is there a section in the rules that explain this puzzle? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Not often I'm impressed but today I am. Two players running into a problem not really addressed and coming to a common sense, workable compromise without the crap of "we roll to see what happens and argue if it doesn't roll my way" situation. Gentlemen, I salute you! I actualy really likenthe way you guys have decided to rule it and would suggest posting this in the BA forum aswell as they are the other Raven users and this could be helpful for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I came across this issue with the vendetta, as a friend of mine uses 1-2 of them often. we agreed that template weapons (blasts and flamers) would either target the vendetta and thus miss any troops nearby, or target the troops and then miss the vendetta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
somogyi Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 since the vehicle is a skimmer (IMO) you treat it as a landspeeder, or wave serpent, scatter hits or misses the same. if you use the height of the model in this fashion you could get models out of the raven/valk onto the second / third floors of buildings, using the same logic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 On balance, I believe somogyl has it "correct", according to the rules of the game. Nevertheless, 40K has enshrined the idea of "levels" with respect to blast templates and multi-level buildings/ruins. So I think it's perfectly reasonable for a scatter off of a skimmer to hit the closest level of a ruin if that happens to be where it goes. Again, best to agree with your opponent. Don't assume that's how it should be played! Well done working out the issue reasonably with your opponent, TC. :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borinar Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I would look to Page 84 of the rule book. Basically you were shooting at the raven, if it scattered and did not cover anything else of that height/level then it is a miss. I am using the raven and a floor as interchangeable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
somogyi Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Borinar, I am sorry you can't just arbitrarily substitute the storm raven with floors of a building because you want to. Because there are no rules that specifically deal with the height of a skimmer model, we have to use the standard rules for shooting at a vehicle/ skimmer. By your logic since a Ravager and a landspeeder are both skimmers, I could put them on raven stands and you would have to use the same template rules. Also, if the raven is so high up that you can't hit anything on the ground with a scatter, then how can ground troops assault it? Using your logic, a unit that is under the wing of a raven can be targeted by a template weapon that would have to be under the wing of the raven to hit the unit. And thus avoiding the rule of not covering your own models with templates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I could put them on raven stands and you would have to use the same template rules. that is illelgal to do . GW skimers have to be used on the skimer base supplied with them as speeders dont come with the flyer base storms or valks come you wouldnt have been able to use those , True LoS or not there is no high or not in 5thed[unlike 4th] , yes it is harder to check where the template is and yes it does give an advantage to the SR/Valk players [ this either means opponents with blast weapons have to not shot with them on those or shot and never be precise and risk DQ] , but it was always like that with loyalist armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
somogyi Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Actually no it is not illegal to do, you would have to get you opponents permission to use it since it isn't on the standard base. It is like that with all models not on the base they came with, or have had their base modified. But that is not the main point of my previous post. The fact that the raven is on a flyer base doesn't matter because it is a skimmer not a flyer, so it has to follow traditional skimmer rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236620-storm-ravens-and-template-weapons/#findComment-2852458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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