Purifier Loadouts

[Abaddonshand]

Hey folks,

 

I'm still tweaking the lists I plan on building for larger point games. At 2000 points, I plan on running a librarian in a stormraven with purifiers. The librarian has halberd, warp rift, shrouding, and the purifiers are 8 men w/ 5 halberds, hammer on KoF, 2 incinerators. I have three points left in the list, so I'm tempted to switch an incinerator for a halberd. What do you think?

 

I have the same dilemma at 3-4000 points too. Librarian has all of the above plus sanctuary and might of Titan, purifiers are as is but with 2 additional men w/ incinerators. Should I switch out two of the incinerators for more halberds? I'd make up the points here by dropping might of Titan from the Libby, as I have enough anti-tank at this level to not really need the extra d6, making hammer hand as useful in combat.

 

In terms of theme, I like the purifiers having 4 flame-type weapons, but it would give them uniformity with my other power armour squads, who look like this;

7 swords, 2 psycannon, hammer (strikes)

7 falchions, 2 psycannon, hammer (interceptors).

I quite like each squad having different ccws, and quite like how the quantities match up looks wise. Also, with cleansing flame, and the librarian's warp rift, dropping from 5 templates to 3 in exchange for more I6 power weapon attacks seems like a fairly balanced trade off (although the free incinerators are a STEAL!) What do you think?

[Abaddonshand]

So can no one. Answer this question? Even weigh in with an opinion?

[Crynn]

They don't need incinerators. If they are that close they are pretty much close enough to get into combat where i6 + cleansing flame will destroy anything those incinerators would have killed. one hammer that either halbards or psycannons, nothing else.

 

And what is this talk of 3-4000 points? did you mean 3-400 points, or are you just talking about the size of your army?

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Abaddonshand]

I was talking in terms of army size, my first paragraph referred to 2000pts, and the second explaining my similar question at higher points level.

 

I definitely want some incinerators, I feel they suit purifiers, and don't want to waste points on psycannons when they'll hopefully be zooming around in a stormraven when not close enough to engage in CC. Think I'll cut to two incinerators though, thanks for the advice :P

[Reclusiarch Darius]

At 2000 points, I plan on running a librarian in a stormraven with purifiers.

 

So, to clarify, you are:

 

- Putting our best support character in a flying Chimera, potentially moving him out of range to help the rest of your army

- Sticking our best auxilary fire support unit in there, to act as a pseudo-close combat Deathstar

- Taking a Stormraven

 

I know this looks good in paper, but I'm telling you now, other armies are going to focus-fire your ride to hell. Then do the same to your assault unit (who can only contribute storm bolter at anything but point-blank, because you don't wanna take psycannons). And, to add further pain, you're potentially stranding your Librarian out of range of the rest of the army.

 

I would suggest a different approach. Firstly, take a different bodyguard for the Librarian. Paladins are a great choice, but seeing as this is 2k, you can afford a Terminator blob instead (and they're Troops too, meaning one less Strike squad you have to take to fulfil Troop requirements). Your Librarian belongs in the middle of your army, maximising his 'Sanctuary' and 'Shrouding' auras to nearby units (especially your vehicles).

 

Next, ditch the free incinerators ('Cleansing Flame' does the same thing already), take psycannons instead. You can never have enough (due to the expense of Strike squads), and bringing more on a unit that can split up to cover more ground (ie defend both wings of your phalanx from attack, thus keeping your Strikes from getting charged) is great.

 

Finally, I would strongly urge you to reconsider taking one Stormraven. 2 is the minimum I would field if you want them, 3 preferably. The reason being is that Knights lack armour saturation to begin with (due to our higher cost per model, transports are harder to fit in). 2-3 Stormravens transporting a Paladin or Death-Cult unit each (the only two real close-combat units we have that can fit inside Ravens) is a different army entirely though.

[Simo429]

I don't want to waste points on psycannons

 

I may have had a brain meltdown reading that. You can never waste points on psycannons.

[jamsight]

I run 10 purifiers with 4 falchions 1 hammer and 5 halberds with a Grandmaster tooled with M,C sword digital weopen, defenceive grenades and psytroke grenades in a raven trust me this is DEATH too everything (dice rolls permitting) the points cost is huge but give them scoring from the GM and point them at the opponents objective and see the sweat dripping off his brow :devil: I'll post my list on the proper place so far it's only struggled against horde hopew this helps.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I run 10 purifiers with 4 falchions 1 hammer and 5 halberds with a Grandmaster tooled with M,C sword digital weopen, defenceive grenades and psytroke grenades in a raven trust me this is DEATH too everything (dice rolls permitting) the points cost is huge but give them scoring from the GM and point them at the opponents objective and see the sweat dripping off his brow I'll post my list on the proper place so far it's only struggled against horde hopew this helps.

 

Yeah, until people start shooting at you. Then you discover that 'hey, these guys only wear power armour and have 1 wound'. You'd be far better off taking Paladins in the same role (they are actually cheaper too, and sport the extremely rare WS5).

[jamsight]

reserved, turbo boosted 1/2 way across the board with a dread knight on aggro duities :devil: as for the paladins they might be Ws 5 with 2 wounds but they only have 10 attacks and sometimes you just need bodies on the table. I will try paladins at some point I just love purifiers a bit too much for the moment.

for the 3+ armour save in most games I get close enough to an enemy unit to claim cover from anything to nasty and since purifiers are fearless one or tow dying isn't an issue.

 

So to answer Abaddon's question drop the incinerators and take the halberds

 

soz for editing every 5 seconds

[Reclusiarch Darius]

as for the paladins they might be Ws 5 with 2 wounds but they only have 10 attacks and sometimes you just need bodies on the table. I will try paladins at some point I just love purifiers a bit too much for the moment.

 

If you want more attacks, get a Bro Banner (another thing Purifiers don't have). It has the additional benefit of buffing attached character as well, so your Libby/Grandmaster is now hitting harder too.

 

for the 3+ armour save in most games I get close enough to an enemy unit to claim cover from anything to nasty and since purifiers are fearless one or tow dying isn't an issue

 

Cover saves aren't the issue, it's massed fire that kills Marines these days. Purifiers are just as susceptible to it as Strikes, except they cost more and in your unit, they're not even bringing additional psycannon for the army. Hence why I find them questionable as a Deathstar, when Paladins do it better.

[jamsight]

Fair point on the massed fire power but you still get a lot more attacks even with the banner and a charge. I also find that 22 storm bolter shots from the purifiers and GM is enough to make most regret a shooting contest, and in a few cases my raven survives the turn of shooting and they charge out into a unit, like I said I don't have the raven on the table 1st turn so when it turns up it on the 1/2 way line before anyone can blink. and with 3 termie units with psycannons and a dread knight their are other things that need to be shot at too.

 

I am enjoying this but I got to do some work back later :devil:

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Fair point on the massed fire power but you still get a lot more attacks even with the banner and a charge.

 

You're missing the point I tried to make though. Paladins sport almost as many attacks, but at WS5 (which means, with a few exceptions, you hit on 3's, and the enemy hits on 4's). They are also incredibly durable, which matters in both ranged duels and close-combat (both Purifiers and Paladins are 'Fearless', which means if they lose, you'll start taking wounds on top of whatever you suffered from actual attacks). In almost all my games, it's not AP2 or power weapons that whittle away my manz, it's massed fire breaking my saves, or protracted combats with lots of attacks coming from both sides. When you combine that with Relentless psycannon to open up transports to get at the meat inside (incinerators are very chancy at doing this, even to AV10), Pallies are pretty much perfect as a melee unit.

 

 

like I said I don't have the raven on the table 1st turn so when it turns up it on the 1/2 way line before anyone can blink.

 

Yeah, but they're off-table for at least two player turns (ie all of Turn 1, possibly half of Turn 2 if you went second), which means you've got to make a dent in the enemy early, and hope your smaller force can last until the Raven shows up (even with 'Communion' cast, you can still roll bad, so it could be as late as Turn 3 it finally makes an appearance). I don't feel comfortable sticking a HQ, an expensive Elite unit and an expensive dropship off-table for that long. Your mileage may vary, but I play a lot of aggressive opponents, who don't just let me wait around for my strategy to work out. Not to mention my local Guard players, who always take Fleet Master+Astropath.

 

and with 3 termie units with psycannons and a dread knight their are other things that need to be shot at too.

 

Yeah, but the return on investment you get by shooting down the Raven is huge. You delay an enemy assault unit+combat character, you knock 205 points out his list straight away, it can't provide fire support anymore etc. Dreadknight is a good target as well, but it's really a choice of killing one or the other, and most armies can feed him a sacrificial unit to tie him up for a turn or two.

[jamsight]

All good points I guess I just don't like the idea of having a 5 man unit walking across the table with the raven and dread knight my model count is very low so I took the purifiers to bulk the count up, I play against Deathwing a lot at the moment so the extra wounds in combat don't really matter since they are doubled out. I also need the raven so that I can move guys around the board, if the raven gets the unit cross the board then it's don't it's job everything else after that is gravy, don't get my wrong I see your point about having over 500pts sitting in reserve waiting for the right roll and it has happened. The other reason I like Purifier over Paladins at the moment is their psychic power it is my anti horde, I feel paladins would just get swamped by 30 orks while the cleansing flame at least give me a chance to kill a few before I start attacking. I guess it's just my playing style a bit all or nothing I do see that in combat with two wounds and a invulnerable save the paladins aren't going anywhere fast but to stop them getting shot to bits they need a transport so that is either a raider or a raven which I will use in the same way and we both know nothing attracts A.T like a raider.

 

I do understand where your coming from and I know I am sounding a bit stubborn but I am just using what I know from experience.

[breng77]

I acutally tried using the purifiers as a deathstar similar to you are for a while. The problems I found (against better players), was if the storm raven gets shot down your Deathstar is done (especially with no special ranged weapons). The second problem was that I would kill what ever I charged and then often get killed by return fire/ assault unless I rolled really well on my grenades. Purifiers largest issue is that they hit on 4s against most other units, which means that sometimes they just fail to hit anything.

[Abaddonshand]

At 2000 points, I plan on running a librarian in a stormraven with purifiers.

 

So, to clarify, you are:

 

- Putting our best support character in a flying Chimera, potentially moving him out of range to help the rest of your army

- Sticking our best auxilary fire support unit in there, to act as a pseudo-close combat Deathstar

- Taking a Stormraven

 

I know this looks good in paper, but I'm telling you now, other armies are going to focus-fire your ride to hell. Then do the same to your assault unit (who can only contribute storm bolter at anything but point-blank, because you don't wanna take psycannons). And, to add further pain, you're potentially stranding your Librarian out of range of the rest of the army.

 

I would suggest a different approach. Firstly, take a different bodyguard for the Librarian. Paladins are a great choice, but seeing as this is 2k, you can afford a Terminator blob instead (and they're Troops too, meaning one less Strike squad you have to take to fulfil Troop requirements). Your Librarian belongs in the middle of your army, maximising his 'Sanctuary' and 'Shrouding' auras to nearby units (especially your vehicles).

 

Next, ditch the free incinerators ('Cleansing Flame' does the same thing already), take psycannons instead. You can never have enough (due to the expense of Strike squads), and bringing more on a unit that can split up to cover more ground (ie defend both wings of your phalanx from attack, thus keeping your Strikes from getting charged) is great.

 

Finally, I would strongly urge you to reconsider taking one Stormraven. 2 is the minimum I would field if you want them, 3 preferably. The reason being is that Knights lack armour saturation to begin with (due to our higher cost per model, transports are harder to fit in). 2-3 Stormravens transporting a Paladin or Death-Cult unit each (the only two real close-combat units we have that can fit inside Ravens) is a different army entirely though.

 

I already have the terminator blob, and the standard strike squad in rhino, and a psyfleman, and a PT dreadknight, and an inteceptor squad. The point is to put a lot of high priority targets in the enemy's face fairly quickly. If they ID the purifers as a major threat, and ignore the rest, sending all the heavy weapons they have against a skimmer with a 3+ cover save, I won't object. The stormraven is for keeps, as I find it a more effective way to take down opposing psykers than a vindicare, of which I've generally had poor experiences.

 

 

I don't want to waste points on psycannons

 

I may have had a brain meltdown reading that. You can never waste points on psycannons.

 

You can waste points on anything that isn't being used. If the unit is travelling in a fast moving transport with no fire points, with the goal of depositing the contents in combat, points on psycannon are a waste.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

All good points I guess I just don't like the idea of having a 5 man unit walking across the table with the raven and dread knight my model count is very low so I took the purifiers to bulk the count up, I play against Deathwing a lot at the moment so the extra wounds in combat don't really matter since they are doubled out. I also need the raven so that I can move guys around the board, if the raven gets the unit cross the board then it's don't it's job everything else after that is gravy, don't get my wrong I see your point about having over 500pts sitting in reserve waiting for the right roll and it has happened.

 

Who said anything about walking? Paladins wear TDA, they can Deepstrike into position if need be (or, if you have a Grandmaster, you can even Outflank with them). I walk mine because I play 1.5k a lot ( :) a lot of my friends won't buy new stuff/assemble new units to expand any larger), and I need a bodyguard for my Librarian. Even saying that, I've Deepstruck onto the board using servo-skulls on a couple of occasions, to alleviate their slowness (ie get them halfway up the board in one go).

 

If you cut out the Raven, you'll find you have plenty of points to spare. 200 is a lot for Knights, its an entire Strike or Terminator squad, or the difference between Terminator or Paladin blob.

Mobility isn't really an issue for Knights. I know a lot of people are cheering that we know have Rhinos and Razorbacks (I'm more interested in the latter, because it brings guns we don't have access to normally), but you never have to mech up (and indeed, it's hard to find points for transports usually). Strikes and Terminators can teleport into position if need be, and really don't have to move once they're within psycannon range.

 

The other reason I like Purifier over Paladins at the moment is their psychic power it is my anti horde, I feel paladins would just get swamped by 30 orks while the cleansing flame at least give me a chance to kill a few before I start attacking. I guess it's just my playing style a bit all or nothing I do see that in combat with two wounds and a invulnerable save the paladins aren't going anywhere fast but to stop them getting shot to bits they need a transport so that is either a raider or a raven which I will use in the same way and we both know nothing attracts A.T like a raider.

 

If you play a lot of horde armies, Purifiers are insanely good and make them cry. Paladins laugh in deep baritone at enemy hordes, because your attached Librarian has a nasty 'Sanctuary' waiting for them when they charge you (I've probably killed more enemy models with that power than with actual close-combat attacks).

Anyway, unless you've miscalculated horribly (or you dice hate you), Paladins win pretty much any combat you send them into. Mine have waded though Stormhammers, Nob Bikers, Thunderwolves, Wyches, Genestealers etc. I've mutually annihilated a Tyranid Warrior squad (I got ID power off even with 'Shadow', his boneswords+toxin sacs ripped me apart though). Sure, a horde of Boyz or Termagaunts might hold them up for a turn, but thats all it'll be. They'll have to roll 'Insane Heroism' or be Fearless (and thus take several 'No Retreat' wounds) to keep you wedged in combat. Worst-case scenario, you lose a few wounds (maybe a single Pally) to massed attacks, but you curb-stomp the enemy horde unit after two or three rounds of combat.

 

Our Redeemer is actually a pretty sexy beast. 'Fortitude' and 'POTMS' means we could care less about anything not an 'immobilise' or 'wrecked', it's slightly cheaper than usual Raiders (always handy), and the Flamestorms solve the superior numbers issue you've mentioned (you only need one template laid down on a Marine squad to make them cry). Yes, it will cop melta/lascannon/railgun, but all that panic fire into one target means your Dreadknight/Dreadnoughts aren't getting shot up. Pretty win-win (seeing as the Paladins can always walk and still contribute Relentless psycannon until they reach enemy lines, assuming your ride gets wrecked).

 

I do understand where your coming from and I know I am sounding a bit stubborn but I am just using what I know from experience.

 

;) All good man, if you stomp face in your local scene with Purifiers, I'm not going to begrudge you. Just offering up alternatives if you find it's no longer working out for you.

 

I already have the terminator blob, and the standard strike squad in rhino, and a psyfleman, and a PT dreadknight, and an inteceptor squad. The point is to put a lot of high priority targets in the enemy's face fairly quickly. If they ID the purifers as a major threat, and ignore the rest, sending all the heavy weapons they have against a skimmer with a 3+ cover save, I won't object. The stormraven is for keeps, as I find it a more effective way to take down opposing psykers than a vindicare, of which I've generally had poor experiences.

 

Damn, thats a pretty solid list for 2k. Are the 'psyker brain melted' frag missiles really that good? I usually don't use Vindicare to kill psykers (he's too busy popping armour with his turbo-pen, I only use Hellfire if I have no armour to shoot).

 

You can waste points on anything that isn't being used. If the unit is travelling in a fast moving transport with no fire points, with the goal of depositing the contents in combat, points on psycannon are a waste.

 

I actually agree with you, with one caveat. Having additional psycannon to use before charging in is pretty useful, as it can pop open a transport, or weaken an enemy unit before you get hacking face. Obviously, your efficiency is less because you're moving (ie half the firepower you get if you stand still), but them's the breaks.

[jamsight]

Checks bank balance... sigh.. looks like a redeemer and another squad of termies are on the horizon :P

[Abaddonshand]

 

Damn, thats a pretty solid list for 2k. Are the 'psyker brain melted' frag missiles really that good? I usually don't use Vindicare to kill psykers (he's too busy popping armour with his turbo-pen, I only use Hellfire if I have no armour to shoot).

 

When I say "have the list", I mean have the list planned. One of the drawbacks of being a post-grad student is that tuition fees come before models :) Based on stats and reports I've heard, the missiles are fairly good. You only need to cover the average MEQ psyker with two of the four templates to kill it through perils, shutting down psychic hoods nicely.

 

Here's the proposed list:

 

 

Grey Knights 2000 List

 

HQ: Librarian w/ halberd, warp rift, shrouding = 165pts

 

Elites: Purifier Squad: 8 men w/ 6 halberds, 1 incinerator, hammer on knight of the flame = 209pts

 

Troops: Terminator squad; 10 men w/ 7 halberds, 2 hammers, 2 psycannon, halberd on justicar = 450pts

 

Strike squad; 10 men w/ 7 swords, 2 psycannon, hammer on justicar, rhino = 270pts

 

Fast Attack: Interceptor squad; 10 men; 7 falchions, 2 psycannon, hammer on justicar = 360pts

 

Stormraven Gunship w/ twin-linked multimelta and lascannon, 4 mindstrike missiles = 205pts

 

Heavy Support: Dreadknight w/ personal teleporter = 205pts

 

Dreadnought w/ two twin-linked autocannons, psybolt ammunition = 135pts

 

Total points = 1999

 

40 models + 3 vehicles,

 9 - 12 Kill Points

2 - 4 scoring units.