Need help starting a chapter

[Julgolax]

Before I begin, I'm sure at least one or two people here have noticed I've been back and forth in the threads 100 times or so over chapters I plan to do. In fact though I want to do one chapter, one to the fullest extent. (I mean 3 Thunderhawks, Prometheus LR Command Tank, Contemptor Dread, custom Chapter Master and honor guard, custom MotF, Chief Lib, MoS, and Apothicarion lord, and perhaps even going so far as to customize every single battle brother with my 6 inch tall, foot long box of space marine bits, bobs, and blisters filled to the brim.)

 

I just need to get started. Queue the only foundation for any respectable Space Marine theme ever!

 

1. My first question is a matter of opinion, may I and/or should I use a pre-heresy traitor legion's color scheme for my chapter?
   - (The P-H Death Guard color scheme has to be one of my top 5 favorite color schemes of any lore out there, ironically being among the Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, and Word Bearers. :P )
   
2. I am planning on the theme of my chapter taking it's root in the mix culture of Roman style and the modern special forces style military. I want a diverse, progressive, independent, and powerful chapter founded relatively late in the mysterious timeline of Foundings. I was thinking 18th or 20th to give me a reasonable 2 or 3 hundred years for there to have been a Chapter Master and his current successor. In addition to the theme which I've decided upon, I need a name for this Chapter-to-be, and a fitting insignia. Any ideas?
   - (I was thinking of the eagles, spears, skulls, laurels, and stars as motifs but they are so popular they are taken 1000 times over, I want something unique but not off the wall. I almost feel like ripping off the Death Guard's original emblem and adding 6 more spikes to it for the 12 pointed star, a symbol of the Imperium)
   
3. The Chapter will specialize in planetary assault as most space marine chapters do, but in their history, 3 major battles have been won against the Orks, Tyranids, and the Necrons in siege, so my question is how best can I represent this in modelling and painting the banners of the 10 companies, the tanks, and the battle-brothers?
   

 

I do have more questions but these are the most important for now. Thanks for the help!

[Durus]

I think I remember reading somewhere that the original schemes and icons of the Traitor Legions aren't allowed to be used anymore. But with the changes you mentioned, the symbol would look pretty similar to the Nova Marines one and a few other chapters that I can't remember the name of right now. So if the colors and heraldry don't looke exactly like Death Guard, you shouldn't run into any problems justifying their look fluffwise.

However, if you really like the pre-Heresy Death Guard that much, why don't you just make a Death Guard army?

 

 

To represent the specialization in sieges I'd say that it would probably mean that the marines have to stay in the field over extended periods of time and are regularly engaged in firefights, without much time to resupply or perform repairs. So I'd probably go for battle damage, ammo pouches, grenades and lots and lots of dirt. So in general less knightly and more like an actual soldier.

If you want to include who they fought against into the look, I'd take a look around for Crimson Fists when it comes to Orks and Ultramarines for Tyranids. Necrons phase out when they lose a battle so the only reminder a Marine would keep from such an encounter would be a dematerialized limb, so maybe bionics.

Though as a rule of thumb I would keep those things subtle. I can't imagine Marines with 'xeno weapons' and you can't get more obvious than skulls and choppes off heads. A few teeth, a small glyph plate or even a few ears on a string would make more sense as trophy. A knife made out of a Tyranid claw might work though. Or think of Cassius' book, it's bound in Tyranid leather.

[Octavulg]

- (The P-H Death Guard color scheme has to be one of my top 5 favorite color schemes of any lore out there, ironically being among the Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, and Word Bearers. tongue.gif )

 

Sure (though I'd modify it a little in some way). The Blood Ravens use PH Thousand Sons colors and the Hawk Lords use the Emperor's Children's. There's no reason there wouldn't be others.

 

I am planning on the theme of my chapter taking it's root in the mix culture of Roman style and the modern special forces style military. I want a diverse, progressive, independent, and powerful chapter founded relatively late in the mysterious timeline of Foundings. I was thinking 18th or 20th to give me a reasonable 2 or 3 hundred years for there to have been a Chapter Master and his current successor. In addition to the theme which I've decided upon, I need a name for this Chapter-to-be, and a fitting insignia. Any ideas?

 

Three hundred years and powerful would seem an odd combination (though, of course, all chapters are powerful). Depending on what you mean by powerful, progressive and independent would actually diminish their influence.

 

And what do you mean by diverse?

 

- (I was thinking of the eagles, spears, skulls, laurels, and stars as motifs but they are so popular they are taken 1000 times over, I want something unique but not off the wall. I almost feel like ripping off the Death Guard's original emblem and adding 6 more spikes to it for the 12 pointed star, a symbol of the Imperium)

 

...That's actually been done, IIRC. One of those otherwise undistinguished chapters in a codex (3e or 4e, maybe).

 

The name, scheme, and symbol are all linked to some extent. What do you want to evoke with their name?

 

If you want powerful, I'd recommend going a little over the top. Something like Annihilator Legion, or Warhawks, or Golden Swords.

[KhorneHunter57x]

The Chapter will specialize in planetary assault as most space marine chapters do, but in their history, 3 major battles have been won against the Orks, Tyranids, and the Necrons in siege, so my question is how best can I represent this in modelling and painting the banners of the 10 companies, the tanks, and the battle-brothers?

If you are doing a whole Chapter, perhaps you could individualize the Companies and try to focus on them each having their own specialty and honors? (for example, the Third Company are experts in Planetary Assault, and the 5th, 7th, and 9th Companies were the forces involved in the siege against the Orks)

 

 

- (I was thinking of the eagles, spears, skulls, laurels, and stars as motifs but they are so popular they are taken 1000 times over, I want something unique but not off the wall. I almost feel like ripping off the Death Guard's original emblem and adding 6 more spikes to it for the 12 pointed star, a symbol of the Imperium)

 

...That's actually been done, IIRC. One of those otherwise undistinguished chapters in a codex (3e or 4e, maybe).

It sounds like the Novamarines Chapter Symbol.

[BoldType]

Its good to see an (and dont take the slightest offence) IA Vanilla chapter <_<. Specialities in Xeno killing, PA specialities and no hidious genetic tragedies, WELL DONE. Marines as marines should be :D consider me hooked

[Julgolax]

Its good to see an (and dont take the slightest offence) IA Vanilla chapter ;). Specialities in Xeno killing, PA specialities and no hidious genetic tragedies, WELL DONE. Marines as marines should be ;) consider me hooked

 

Thanks and yes I want a chapter that is just there to do it's part, I feel bad for people who try to make something of chapters like the Black Dragons or Exorcists where there's either genetic deformity or bizarre rituals involved.

 

It sounds like there's evidence of a lore-based restriction on using color schemes similar to the old traitor legions so I need to think of something else. I like the whole white + color theme, and in particular white and blue as well as white and green/camo green. I also like the bold single color scheme that the Raven Guard and Emperor's Children used, not counting the shoulder pad trim.

 

I dont want an entirely codex-oriented chapter because I dont like the look of company colors and I actually want to have 9 battle companies instead of 5 because the Chapter's crusading space-bound nature has them at constant battle and constant need for "reserves" as they go farther and farther through Ultima Segmentum and beyond.

 

I found a picture a while ago which spoke to me, even if the colors aren't exactly how I want them. Anyone have any ideas on how to make "dirty" white and either camo green or dark blue work to look battle-tested like this lysander repaint?Lysander repaint OR does anyone have any other darker color combinations that look choice?

[Ace Debonair]

It sounds like there's evidence of a lore-based restriction on using color schemes similar to the old traitor legions so I need to think of something else. I like the whole white + color theme, and in particular white and blue as well as white and green/camo green. I also like the bold single color scheme that the Raven Guard and Emperor's Children used, not counting the shoulder pad trim.

*Jams Heraldry Dept. Hat on*

Is this any use to you? (Dirty white & camo Green)

Or possibly these? (Dirty white/white & pre-heresy EC purple :P )

I coloured the backpacks in too (except on the first one - oops!) as I figured the picture needed a bit more green/purple.

I can change them if you'd prefer. ^_^

 

EDIT:

No longer need these pics chewing up the bandwidth or whatever it is they do.

EDIT EDIT:

Damn typos.

[Ring-around-the-roses]

Why do they remind me of Luna Wolves?

And there is no such thing as a 'normal' chapter. Think of them as spartans. each is created and equipped broadly the same way, but each will have their own rituals and odd little ways. Same with chapters or indeed most military units of the past (not so much sure about the modern military, lacking in info)

So, you could have a Chapter that is totally codex-adherent, but they will have some character and ways. Even Ultramarines have they're own little rituals and ways, even as much as they hide them.

 

If this is what you meant, and i am just be annoying, please tell. Sorry if so, and the rote 'its still your chapter....' if not. ^_^

[Ace Debonair]

Why do they remind me of Luna Wolves?

I'm taking that as a compliment. The Luna Wolves looked really cool.

He said 'white & trim colour' for possible scheme ideas, so I thought I'd give it a bash. It helps that white armour & trim is my favourite setup of colours, too. :P

 

I think he meant a Chapter in the same vein as the Ultramarines or the 'Fists. As in, a Chapter without any particular horrible genetic quirks or secret histories, rather than an intentionally bland chapter.

 

I might be wrong, though. I'm tired. ^_^

[Julgolax]

Here's what I've come up with so far.

Sample PH Death Guard

Sample PH World Eaters

Sample PH Emperor's Children

Sample PH Thousand Sons

From these I like several elements of the color schemes that I would like to use. From all of them I like the look of bold solid colors, white, blue, red, purple, and green all do well as primary scheme colors. For the secondary colors, gold, green, white, and blue I like most as well. As for the schemes, the two I favor the most are the Death Guard and World Eaters type color schemes where either the shoulders and backpacks have a secondary color, or just the shoulder trim and any small details on the power armor have secondary color.

I suppose I could share a few non-PH-Legion schemes that I've played around with, inspired by the PH designs, in the next post.

[Julgolax]

Color options post

(Pre-Heresy Night Killers maybe? ^_^)

Just thought this one was very simple and clean, metallic or grey would be a good primary against dark blue.

And that's it. What do you guys think? Any sparks of ideas?

[Donkey Kong]

If the Death Guard scheme is your absolute favorite, I can say that you're in luck in one very important way. The Death Guard scheme, quite literally, isn't. Space Marine armor is ceramite ie: ceramic. The Death Guard "off-white" is the color of ceramite. It's not a scheme, it's unpainted power armor. I know it doesn't exactly agree with your desire for "bold solid colors," but it does fit the idea of a no-nonsense siege chapter (or Legion ie: The Death Guard).

 

I would agree with Durus when it comes to the idea of "less knight, more soldier." In the vein of trophy taking, this policy doesn't quite agree with using Ork skulls to make a pretty necklace, at least not in my opinion. An Ork choppa or Tyranid scything talon knife would be pretty interesting. If you'd like to follow the Tyrannic War Veteran style, that could be interesting too: Tyranid carapace field repairs, etc. Between Tyranids and Necrons though, Durus is right again: bionics.

 

Just as a point, if you're going to pit them against the Tyranids, they need to be in the East (Behemoth) or the South (Leviathan), East if you want the fight earlier, South if you want it more recent.

 

Edit:

 

Not to sound like a jerk, but I'm not particularly a fan of any of the schemes you have so far, and I would actually suggest working on the background first before picking colors.

 

Sure (though I'd modify it a little in some way). The Blood Ravens use PH Thousand Sons colors and the Hawk Lords use the Emperor's Children's. There's no reason there wouldn't be others.

 

Only in the same vein that the Blood Ravens and the Thousand Sons are both red or the Hawk Lords and the Emperor's Children are both purple, you mine as well say that the Black Legion, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, and Dark Angels are black :P (Hell, you can basically put every chapter ever on that list if they've ever had a member in the Deathwatch or have had some kind of penitence period).

[Octavulg]

Fair point on the BR (I always forget how different they actually are). But the Hawk Lords and EC are pretty damn close.

[Lysimachus]

I like the first scheme, although it is a bit too similar to the Mentors one IMHO. Not sure about the middle three, but the last one is very nice, think I'd go with that.

[Julgolax]

I have been very busy for a few days so I have not had the chance to respond to this forum thread but now I have much to update on with my choosing process.

 

I have chosen the last one because I believe inspiration should not be ignored or unused.

 

The name I have chosen is generic but nonetheless powerful, the Eagle Knights, since Eagle Warriors was taken.

 

I am in the process of writing a first draft of Index Astartes - Liber Astartes article.

 

The insignia I've chosen is basically the same insignia as the Raptors, only it will be the same blue color that the models will use, that Midnight Blue color. I have chosen this insignia because there are terminator shoulder pads on Forgeworld that I can use to great effect, I only wish they made power armor versions of the same relief the Terminator shoulder pads are.

 

If I may be allowed to do so, I would like to dedicate an entirely new post to my WiP/first draft of Index Astartes article for scrutiny.

[WeaponAdept]

Just thought this one was very simple and clean, metallic or grey would be a good primary against dark blue.

And that's it. What do you guys think? Any sparks of ideas?

I like this one, very very smart!! :wallbash:

[Julgolax]

WORK IN PROGRESS

 

Index Astartes

 

Chapter Name: Eagle Knights

Chapter Founding: 18th

Chapter Primogenitor: Ultramarines

Chapter Homeworld: Fleet-based

Chapter Master: Sorl Prandor

Chapter Heraldry: Silver and Blue armor, blue Eagle head

Chapter Composition: 9 battle companies, 1 battle barge, 6 strike cruisers

Chapter Specialty: Planetary Assault, Siege tactics

Chapter Battle Cry: You will be crushed beneath your fortress alien!

 

Chapter Culture: The Eagle Knights chapter are warriors through and through. The chapter's recruiting worlds in the Eclisus System in the galactic north of Ultima Segmentum are home to a feudal class populations of people who live as a microcosm of Imperial culture where science and technology are intertwined with religion and mystacism. The Eagle Warriors return once every century to visit each world for recruitment and to maintain their presence in these most valuable of worlds. Eclisus Primus, Secundus, and Teriatus are the most populous of the 5 populated worlds. Eclisus also has 2 small colony worlds just beginning to develope their societies and are not yet ready for stable genepool samples. Eclisus System also has a single small Forgeworld which provides the Eagle Knights with supplies periodically. This ideallic system of planets has caught the eye of several xenos races and even traitors of the Red Corsairs pirate warband, so the Eagle Knights are never without foes. Assaulting their worlds as well as attacking worlds far beyond the Eclisus System, xenos of every kind seek to plunder, pillage, and conquer for their own nefarious reasons but none have yet succeeded. The chapter has a relatively small fleet of warships and a single carrier ship which is a heavily modified battle-barge with codex-approved extended storage and functionality. The Majestic is a colossal ship that is likened to a small star-fortress rather than simply a battle-barge. The Majestic is home to 4 of the 9 battle companies and also is home to the 10th Scout Company known as the "Youngbloods". Much of the chapter's cultural matters and practices are performed aboard the Majestic such as their most sacred ritual, the Honor Duel. The ritual has only been performed 7 times in the chapter's history and it involves a highly important process of prayer and training that the two participants must undergo if they are to perform the ritual. After a week's time of preparation, the First or Tenth Captain is called upon to approve the worthiness of the Captain-elect should the previous Captain be slain. This ritual is overseen by Chapter Master, Master of Sanctity, Chief Librarian and the entire company of which is Captain-less. The duel is always to first blood from the torso and not a single battle-brother has ever died from this duel as that would be great dishonor to the opposing Captain. If the battle-brother proves he is worthy in both spirit and in combat of his Captaincy, he is then elected and dawns the power armor of his former Captain should the power armor be suitable for service. The chapter views combat as the warrior's true place and so make war wherever it is to be found, for the ultimate victory of the Imperium rests not on the shoulders of squabbling and corrupt beurocrats, but on the shoulders of men willing to sacrifice all for the people of the Imperium.

 

Homeworld Details: The Eagle Knights are a fleet-based chapter and do not draw their recruits from or make their home on a single planet. The chapter's battle barge the Majestic is heavily modified to house 5 companies of battle brothers, the chapter's main armory, the Apothicarion, Reclusiam, and Librarium in their own sections of the ship. The ship is equipped with a massive vault containing their chapter's genestock which is located in the deepest section of the ship behind the nigh impenetrable Apothicarion deck. The Chapter Master's personal chamber, grand hall, and bridge are housed in the upper rear section of the ship were the Master of the Fleet and other officers of the Chapter can convene with the 10 Captains and the Chapter Master himself for the Council of Lords. The ship's hangar, gun batteries, drop pod rails, and it's armory are located from the tip of the ship to the bottom of the main structure and accomodates 3/4 of the chapter's entire vehicle pool. The Majestic has seen more combat in it's time than some battle barges owned by more senior chapters and has been the bane of 3 Tyranid Norn Queen bioships, a Necron carrier crescent, 4 score Eldritch cruisers, and a grand total of 47 Ork Roks carrying hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Orkid barbarians.

 

Famous Battles:

Kergonian Cleansing

The Eagle Knights have had several hundred victories against many different alien races but only three have been worthy of Imperial Record. The first great victory of the chapter was against the Ork Warlord Tazsnik Grimskull who had been terrorizing the Kergonian colonies for centuries, pillaging and slaughtering Imperial Guard regiments and citizens alike. The Eagle Knights mustered their chapter's entire fleet and set out about the Kerogonian colony worlds scouring Orks by the thousands, interrogating the many "bosses" for information on the whereabouts of their shadowy leader. Three months after the campaign began, the chapter had gotten enough information from dying Ork leaders to know where this creature made his lair and enacted one of it's most brilliant ploys yet. Taking command of the Kergonian Imperial Guard regimental armory as well as contributing much of it's own, the Eagle Knights under the command of then Chapter Master Hadrian destroyed a large section of wall guarding an Imperial supply depot and piled it high in arms, ammunition and even vehicles that made an irresistable target for the Orks. In a risky gambit that could have ended in disaster if careful planning had not been made the last of the Orks holding out on Kessia were driven to this one spot by precision orbital strikes and Land Speeder sorties. Finding the stockpile the Orks made a collective B-line to the cache. Before they could touch any of it however, Master Hadrian and the entire 1'st company of Eagle Knights teleported to the surface from an overhead strike cruiser, the Sword of Hadrian and immediately engaged the fleeing Orks. In a battle of defense, the company was equipped with terminator armor and various weapon loadouts. The imposing wall of adamantium and ceramite was too much for the Orks and they were caught in a wave of gunfire that tore them apart. Looking amongst the onslaught of the Orks, Hadrian did not join his battle-brothers in the slaughter, leaving the safety of the group for the outskirts of the compound, and there sure enough he encountered the black skinned Ork, Tazsnik Grimskull. The creature was not about to be taken by surprise and made for the shadows but Hadrian knew the Ork would cower in the shadows. While the rest of the warband was cut down in fire, Hadrian lit up the jungle with his combi-flamer and charged the painted Ork warlord. A vicious duel ensued and in spite of several wounds from the adamantium dagger and the grenade vollies from his opponent, Hadrian pushed through the thrashing beast and drove his ornate Chainfist into the Ork's gut, peeling the beast in two and severing it's spine from it's right half. With that, the Orks were purged from Kergonian space, bringing the light of salvation to the darkness of fear in the lives of the people.

Defense of Eclisus

The second great victory of the Chapter was against the Eldar of the dark kindred. The raiders had thought it profitable to invade the Eagle Knight's recruiting worlds in search of slaves for their dark designs but such a mistake was worthy of the chapter's salvation and so the chapter returned to their people and faced the largest raid the chapter had seen in it's history. An entire army of these insane xenos had befallen Eclisus and spread out amongst the system, the chapter had to divide in order to conquer. Dispatching 2 companies to each planet, save the tenth, Hadrian ordered each company to divide further into fire teams supported by Land Speeders and Razorbacks. Every even-numbered company also had it's assault squads divided into 4, 5-man bike squads to cover the Razorbacks. The xenos had established Eldritch strongholds on each planet where slaves would be gathered and stored for transport up to the illusive cruiser. Lacking the means to locate and destroy the cruiser, Hadrian's chapter did not evacuate but instead rallied the people into bands of militia and lead rapid sieges against the Eldar encampments to buy time for the chapter's fleet to locate the Eldritch cruiser and destroy it so the aliens had no way of coordinating and vacating the worlds which they plundered. The chapter spent nearly 6 months hunting the shadowy foe and did what they could to save the people of Eclisus worlds. That time was a time of strife and the chapter's many warriors were put to the test but when victory seemed far, Hadrian again saw opportunity in the enemy's very nature. The Dark Eldar had a classic weakness that their speed simply could not save them from, and that weakness was their armor. The dark kin were easily defeatable if they were merely struck with enough force. Rather than try and match them speed for speed alone, and the Chapter Master ordered his full assortment of Vindicators and Land Raiders to be deployed world by world in rapid deployments via Thunderhawk vehicle dropships. Landing the mighty siege vehicles in the heat of battle, the tanks formed a nigh unstoppable wall of firepower and from rolling hills, to swampy jungle, to arid plains, the vehicles laid low several dozen of the enemy fortifications. Within 9 months, the Dark Eldar had been purged from Eclisus System and the 15 tanks involved in the campaign each recieved numerous awards from both the chapter and the militia they saved. Forever after it would be known as Hadrian's Wall, the tanks in formation which could both wipe the enemy from the surface of the planet or hold back a tide of enemies with armored firepower.

(WORKING ON THIRD MAJOR CAMPAIGN)

 

Chapter Tactics: Siege tactics have arrisen to become the pre-eminant tactic of the chapter because direct and overwhelming force has seen more victories than any other tactica within the Codex Astartes. The chapter specialises in planetary assault as a whole, but in siege warfare the Eagle Knights are fast becoming famous and infamous for their rapid blitzkrieg tactics. The only drawback to this tactic is that it has their armory in constant shift and the Eagle Knights must resupply often to keep up their onslaught, which can put immense strain on their supply lines and their battle-brothers defending those supply lines. To counter this, the chapter commonly employs one of the astartes most effective weapons, their alliance and relationship with the people of the Imperium. With the eternal promise of Guilliman to progress and rebuild the Imperium, the Eagle Knights never leave a world without working to influence it for the better. With such benevolence given to the people the chapter really leaves no reason for the people they aid to not reciprocate support. Militia are an unusual and often handy resource that some other more seasoned chapters have yet to employ in their long wartorn history.

 

This again is still a first draft and a work in progress. Please be gentle and if you have any constructive criticisms, please tell me. Also note I do not have a functional Microsoft Office - Word on this computer so I apologize ahead of time for spelling and grammar errors.

[Julgolax]

did anyone bother to take a look at my IA?

 

I'm starting to think it's just that boring for people...

[SnakeoilSage]

I read through your setup and here are my thoughts.

 

I think you have a good, solid foundation for a Chapter; it's concise and feels like a stalwart member of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

That said, it feels a little too vanilla, know what I mean? Some of the details read like a checklist of Chapter creation, and while there's nothing wrong with those per se they don't help elevate your Chapter above the hundreds of others that exist.

 

Consider limiting technical details about your Chapter to single paragraphs and use broad strokes. "Show, don't Tell" is a hard rule to follow when you're creating a Chapter, but try to put it in terms that the average Eagle Knight might use when speaking to an outsider. "The Chapter holds the Honour Duel above all other traditions, and even the position of Captaincy is only won through this test of wit and steel" feels a little more imposing and solid than a paragraph of how the duel is played out.

 

You'll also want to flavour your Chapter more to fit the theme you were going for. If you want a strong Roman touch to your Chapter, look up Roman Military on wikipedia. Roman Legions were sometimes draconian in their discipline, perhaps that's a strong part of their culture? Perhaps your recruitment worlds are not as content as you might think, and like the original Roman Empire won over the discontented masses with "bread and circuses." Perhaps blood sport played out to honour the Emperor is common, with gladiatorial games and savage chariot races, and the Chapter recruits its members from "noble-gladiator" stock, men who punish criminals and heretics in the arena to the roaring cheers of the populace. They could view it as an honour for a Knight Eagle to induct that gladiator's son into the Chapter, and this is why so many are willing to fight in the arena: to give their children a better life off their somewhat miserable homeworld.

 

Finally, try not to drag out your noteworthy battles. Again, try to tell them as if they were epic tales shared around a feast table, emphasizing deeds of heroism or cunning over technical details. An Ultramarine might find the intricacies noteworthy, but only in an actual battlefield debriefing. A Space Wolf or a Blood Angel is more likely to get bored listening it.

 

I hope these give you some insights to making your Chapter even better!