The Chapter's Future

[MaveriK]

I'm curious to see what my brothers have to say about the future of our chapter. Where do you see our chapter 10 years from now? even 20 years? codex's come and go, rules change for the good and at times for the worst. But I'm curious to see what you all think the fluff is heading. We know that the Imperium isn't looking too good. Do you think the Wolves of Fenris will survive? will they eventually kill-off the Old Wolf Logan Grimnar? will the 13th come back in the codex? will the Fang be once again besieged?

[maverik_girl]

I'd love to see Ragnar be Great Wolf one day.

[Torvak Kyre]

I'd love to see Ragnar be Great Wolf one day.

 

 

Totally agree!

[MonSTeR]

I'm sure that when GW needs a big shake up we'll see perhaps Russ returning or Ragnar taking over the chapter. I think things are very much sales driven and they don't tend to do stuff that hurts their profits.

 

I think the most interesting thing will be the effect of the Horus Heresy novel series and where that takes the company direction in relation to the game. I definitely think that they're revealed too much to keep the mystery of 40K and as such there may well be a big shake up. HOWEVER... GW prefers to trickle out the new releases to ensure sales remain constant.

 

But yes, Ragnar for President. ;)

[MaveriK]

I dunno man, the 40K universe storyline's progression is very slow.. to the point were it feels really BORING, it's like it's put on pause for everyone. Sure there are plenty of battles to fight, but nothing really major happening with the war itself. It almost feels like GW is too scared to bring anything new and fresh on the table. Sure the whole lets keep certain things open and secret is fine, like the primarchs or the two mission legions. But really... where is the story going? the only really cool thing that happened with 40K is the Horus Heresy. So now all we have in our hands are heroes who will eventually die, while new ones are born on the battle field. It would be nice to see some development with each faction/chapter and race.

 

--EDIT--

Don't get me wrong, I love Ragnar. But having him eventually become Great Wolf after Logan seems too predictable. I don't know about you, but I like things that surprises you with unpredictable results. GW needs to put more focus on the other Wolf Lords. I'm just glad Bran Redmaw is getting some press time thanks to Forge World.

[MonSTeR]

It should be slow, in fact I'd go so far as to say it should in fact be static. It should be about wargaming in a set time period rather than watching a soap opera where you tune in every week to see what happens next.

 

I would prefer that they simply set the scene and let us get on with it. Moving a story forwards, one that is defined by the fact it is set in the close of the 41st millenium seems counterintuitive to me. I personally think the elucidation of the Horus Heresy is the worst thing that GW have done to 40K by filling in the background too much they've taken away too much of the mystique and almost too much of the facility to "imagine". It shoudl be up to us the gamers to tell the story of what happens next rather than turning 40K into a Marvel comicbook.

[MaveriK]

It should be slow, in fact I'd go so far as to say it should in fact be static. It should be about wargaming in a set time period rather than watching a soap opera where you tune in every week to see what happens next.

LOL I wasn't asking for a soap opera. I was implying a forward momentum with the "war" effort and story itself.

 

they've taken away too much of the mystique and almost too much of the facility to "imagine".

I dunno, I think the mystique is still there! it's just that I think there are players out there who ruin that.

 

It shoudl be up to us the gamers to tell the story of what happens next rather than turning 40K into a Marvel comicbook.

LMAO that's hilarious, thank you for that! remember when we had GW global campaigns? and when chaos and xeno races were out performing the good guys? I'm pretty sure it's one of the reason's why GW stopped doing the global campaigns that helped tell what happens next.. but they pulled the plug on that one because Space Marines and Imperial Guard are the bread and butter of the company, money maker. Sooooooo yah, I'm all for gamers telling the story of what happens next! LOL actually, I'd rather have good authors like A.D.B come up with better stories for the future of this game than corporate GW.

[Pavement Artist]

It should be slow, in fact I'd go so far as to say it should in fact be static. It should be about wargaming in a set time period rather than watching a soap opera where you tune in every week to see what happens next.

LOL I wasn't asking for a soap opera. I was implying a forward momentum with the "war" effort and story itself.

 

they've taken away too much of the mystique and almost too much of the facility to "imagine".

I dunno, I think the mystique is still there! it's just that I think there are players out there who ruin that.

 

It shoudl be up to us the gamers to tell the story of what happens next rather than turning 40K into a Marvel comicbook.

LMAO that's hilarious, thank you for that! remember when we had GW global campaigns? and when chaos and xeno races were out performing the good guys? I'm pretty sure it's one of the reason's why GW stopped doing the global campaigns that helped tell what happens next.. but they pulled the plug on that one because Space Marines and Imperial Guard are the bread and butter of the company, money maker. Sooooooo yah, I'm all for gamers telling the story of what happens next! LOL actually, I'd rather have good authors like A.D.B come up with better stories for the future of this game than corporate GW.

 

Yes and the game changing fluff of those campaigns had to be nuked fairly quickly due to the massive impact it would have had on the universe. It's a game system first and foremost. The background and the story of this grimdark millenium is meant as a backdrop to your games. It's not meant to be this serialised epic that progresses every time there's a rules update.

If GW had chaos reach terra, or the orks kick down everyone's collective space back doors, then that would immediately place one army as being more dominant or more powerful than the other. None of the factions can be in the ascendant, because otherwise you close off the game for people starting the hobby. This is precisely why the "timelines" in each of the codices are just rough histories of awesome things said army has done. The idea is to get the person pumped about playing with them. Each army has it's own equal potential to be the dominant force but they're all kept in check for the purposes of presenting each force in equal terms.

 

ADB once referred to the 40k universe as being "Two minutes to midnight". That's the whole point of the setting. It's a mood, a theme to get us inspired when playing the game. The ethos of the system is that the universe couldn't give two lower body biological functions about your army or what happens to them. Not to come across as some wargaming Ghandi, but the "story" is meant to be what you form from the experiences of your games. It's just that sort of thing gets lost in translation when people are just focussing on meta lists.

 

It's part of the reason it irks me when people talk about the Primarchs returning. It'd be terrible. The Imperium would just charleston its way across the universe and slap all the other factions around. Then where will that leave you? Narratively speaking you'd be left with Logan Grimnar taking up an admin role or something.

[MaveriK]

Yes and the game changing fluff of those campaigns had to be nuked fairly quickly due to the massive impact it would have had on the universe. It's a game system first and foremost. The background and the story of this grimdark millenium is meant as a backdrop to your games. It's not meant to be this serialised epic that progresses every time there's a rules update.

If GW had chaos reach terra, or the orks kick down everyone's collective space back doors, then that would immediately place one army as being more dominant or more powerful than the other. None of the factions can be in the ascendant, because otherwise you close off the game for people starting the hobby. This is precisely why the "timelines" in each of the codices are just rough histories of awesome things said army has done. The idea is to get the person pumped about playing with them. Each army has it's own equal potential to be the dominant force but they're all kept in check for the purposes of presenting each force in equal terms.

I agree on the game system first and foremost. But then again, a game without a good background gets boring. It's like buying a video game, you can play it all you want but once you finish it... you get bored with it. Sure the story is meant as a backdrop to the games, but again.. it gets repetitive. And I personally think that every time there's a rules update, the story should at least step forwards instead of standing still. At least, it feels like that at the moment.

 

If GW had chaos reach terra, or the orks kick down everyone's collective space back doors, then that would immediately place one army as being more dominant or more powerful than the other. None of the factions can be in the ascendant, because otherwise you close off the game for people starting the hobby. This is precisely why the "timelines" in each of the codices are just rough histories of awesome things said army has done. The idea is to get the person pumped about playing with them. Each army has it's own equal potential to be the dominant force but they're all kept in check for the purposes of presenting each force in equal terms.

Maybe chaos should have reached Terra, maybe the Orks should kick down everyone's collective back doors. At least something MAJOR is happening, at least it's a bit exciting. If a person loves their army, they wont leave it. It's not about who's army will be superior if the story goes one way... heck do you know how many Necron players I know who still play their armies because they can? even against all the odds with the newer books? But your right, each book as it's own checks to keep it on equal terms. But having things even and on a stalemate seems pointless. It's like a tug of war and nobody really wins except GW as they cash in the money.

 

ADB once referred to the 40k universe as being "Two minutes to midnight". That's the whole point of the setting. It's a mood, a theme to get us inspired when playing the game. The ethos of the system is that the universe couldn't give two lower body biological functions about your army or what happens to them. Not to come across as some wargaming Ghandi, but the "story" is meant to be what you form from the experiences of your games. It's just that sort of thing gets lost in translation when people are just focussing on meta lists.

I get you.. but the way things are going those two minutes have been ten years for allot of us. At least my future grandchildren will have a better idea of what might or might not happen in the 40K universe hahaha

 

It's part of the reason it irks me when people talk about the Primarchs returning. It'd be terrible. The Imperium would just charleston its way across the universe and slap all the other factions around. Then where will that leave you? Narratively speaking you'd be left with Logan Grimnar taking up an admin role or something.

You give Primarchs far too much credit. Sure their uber, but they can still die. Their not immortal, if an assassin or another Primach can take out each other then who's to say a C'tan or an entire horde of Necrons all pointing their guns at one Primarch can.

[Xeenos]

I expect to see a 40k expansion called "The Horus Heresy" where they can add in chars like the Emperor and the Primarchs, far before we ever see Russ return to us.

 

And while i like Ragnar, i would worry for the chapter in his hands. He is a good company leader, but does he have the wisdom to play diplomacy for the whole of the chapter? I could see him being a leader akin to Ironhelm perhaps.. making some grave headstrong mistake. Something Logan would likely have the wisdom and cunning to foresee. But hey, if it gets Ragnar Eternal Warrior then i suppose im down for that! >_>

 

Was the 13th Black Crusade not a big event for GW where they had a lot of shops do fights to see what happens and perhaps see if Chaos gets a foot hold outside the Eye? I know Chaos lost, but if they had won then what might have happened?

 

As for the 13th company, now that GW is taking white dwarf back to the route of having rules and stuff in it, i expect we will very very likely see the return of our beloved 13th Company.

[maverik_girl]

As for the 13th company, now that GW is taking white dwarf back to the route of having rules and stuff in it, i expect we will very very likely see the return of our beloved 13th Company.

good call :ph34r: that makes me happy! totally forgot about the white dwarf route! *fingers crossed*

[Arez]

I expect to see a 40k expansion called "The Horus Heresy" where they can add in chars like the Emperor and the Primarchs, far before we ever see Russ return to us.

They have one out.LOL.I thinks its old though.

 

Yesterday after the Apoc game I was in was done my dad and I went to a place that use to sell GW stuff.We were looking at the different models(found a SW battle force from 2nd ed,2 actual long fang packs and a grey hunter pack :cuss ) and my dad found Horus Heresy ( or something like that) and on the back it had the Emperor and some other people.I think it was something like Space Hulk or Monopoly but its still an expansion IMO ^_^

 

 

And for the 13th comment:OOOoooooooo I sooo hope they bring them back.They are what got me into Space Wolves

[Blacksad]

our chapter in 10 to 20 years? Logan Grimnar still as Great Wolf, getting drunk drinking from Abadon's skull.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I expect to see a 40k expansion called "The Horus Heresy" where they can add in chars like the Emperor and the Primarchs, far before we ever see Russ return to us.

 

And while i like Ragnar, i would worry for the chapter in his hands. He is a good company leader, but does he have the wisdom to play diplomacy for the whole of the chapter? I could see him being a leader akin to Ironhelm perhaps.. making some grave headstrong mistake. Something Logan would likely have the wisdom and cunning to foresee. But hey, if it gets Ragnar Eternal Warrior then i suppose im down for that! >_>

 

Was the 13th Black Crusade not a big event for GW where they had a lot of shops do fights to see what happens and perhaps see if Chaos gets a foot hold outside the Eye? I know Chaos lost, but if they had won then what might have happened?

 

As for the 13th company, now that GW is taking white dwarf back to the route of having rules and stuff in it, i expect we will very very likely see the return of our beloved 13th Company.

 

If I remember correctly, Chaos actually crushed the Imperium, but the results got fudged a little.

[Arez]

Edit:woops wrong thread sorry

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

with the chaos 3.5 dex, crushing the Imperium wasnt that hard...

 

WLK

[Xeenos]

Actually now that i think about it i believe chaos won in most aspects but they were not able to take Cadia... id have to go dig out the old 13th crusade stuff..

[Bikeninja]

Well if anyone actually believes some of the rumors about GW advancing the setting into the 42nd Millineum then we may get to see a little of what the future holds.

[Grimtooth]

Global campaigns should be directed at just creating more activities for the gamers in the current millennium which in turn could also boost sales. They should not be directed at trying to forward the storyline.

 

Back on topic, here is where I would prefer to see things go which might shock some of you;

 

I would like to see the fall of the Imperium due to the bureaucracy of the High Lords which would further push the chapters into even more autonomy. I can see the blue boyscouts as well as some of the other Codex Astartes parade deck goody-two shoes pulling back to Terra to clean things up and establishing a militrarism goverment.

 

This would allow the Wolves to even further standout as an autonomous entity. Free of any of the tenets of High Lords crap, the Wolves would continue to do what they know is the right thing to do. The Wolves could progress forward, carving out a growing area of space that was under their protection and followed their law, not the coorupted of the Imperium.

[MonSTeR]

Yeah, when I said it should be up to players to tell the story, I didn't mean on a "global campaign" sort of thing I mean in our living rooms, in our gaming groups. Nothing should affect the background and the background shouldn't change.

 

I'd worry for GW if they move things forward because they've found the "right" setting and nurtured it over the years. to change it by moving the "core" setting on 2000 years will remove a lot of the favourite characters and settings that people have attached themselves to over the last 20 years.

 

I can see a Horus Heresy offshoot. But a major "core" universe "reboot" wouldn't work for 40K because folks have too much invested, both emotionally and financially into the "current" setting. If you equate the 40K universe to the Marvel Universe, they can change certain aspects, but Cap and Spiderman and Wolverine, and all the rest of the key players stay constant and have done since day 1. If you kill off Cap he comes back. that sort of thing.

 

Effectively it's new sotries in a static setting.

[Prot]

Some really good discussion here.

 

I would normally agree that progression in the 40K storyline is painfully slow, but I think that's slowly changing since the Horus Heresy became a four-thousand part novel series. We're seeing change now, and a set up to the 'present' that is much more volatile, and not as cookie cutter as before... I'm talking Looong before like Slaves to Darkness era.

 

I think the more the Wolves particular story line progresses, I think the more they are liable to become very similar to their pre-heresy roots. I see them getting larger, and I see them deviating even further from the 'wonderful' Codex Astartes that Guilleman pooped out.

[Forté]

Personally, Id love to see less reliance on special charactors. Considering they are the equivalent of 1/1000 people, if not more. Why are there more than one in peoples army so often? Does Ragnar really lead every attack his GC commit and with Logan, Canis and Bjorn with him? It's removed a lot of creativity from the players of the games (not just 40k) when players used to be more imaginative.

 

Don't get me wrong, they have their place in the whole story/ background. But when players use them because of how powerful they are....it gets to me.

 

 

As for the future of the SW.....still kicking ass, creating sagas and drinking to fallen heroes.

[Grimtooth]

Personally, Id love to see less reliance on special charactors. Considering they are the equivalent of 1/1000 people, if not more. Why are there more than one in peoples army so often? Does Ragnar really lead every attack his GC commit and with Logan, Canis and Bjorn with him? It's removed a lot of creativity from the players of the games (not just 40k) when players used to be more imaginative.

 

Don't get me wrong, they have their place in the whole story/ background. But when players use them because of how powerful they are....it gets to me.

 

 

As for the future of the SW.....still kicking ass, creating sagas and drinking to fallen heroes.

 

The only special character I have ever used is Logan and that is because you need him to run a Loganwing. Other then that, been my own HQ and whatnot everytime.

[Nrthstar]

Monster, what you have to keep in mind, is people play this game for tons of different reasons, and some play it for the story. I personally love the idea of a world wide ongoing storyline that thousands of players take part in. That being said, I actually not just play 40k, but the competition now too (love my Khador army) because they've figured out how to have a story that moves onward every 2 years or so, and yet it doesn't break the game. Yeah, it's possible to lose a named character and gain a new one, but I find that to be brilliant even if I can't use a 10 dollar model I purchased.

 

With Fantasy and 40k, I didn't commit to the game till after I had read some of the stories. Gaming systems are a dime a dozen, and as time goes, so are good looking models. If there's no story behind them, then I have no real connection to the models. Sure I craft my own sagas for my models, but an overarching story is interesting to me and actually, to all the players in my gaming group.

 

An existing character twist I would be interested in is Arjac being turned into a dreadnought. If anyone would deserve it, he would.

[MonSTeR]

Monster, what you have to keep in mind, is people play this game for tons of different reasons, and some play it for the story. I personally love the idea of a world wide ongoing storyline that thousands of players take part in. That being said, I actually not just play 40k, but the competition now too (love my Khador army) because they've figured out how to have a story that moves onward every 2 years or so, and yet it doesn't break the game. Yeah, it's possible to lose a named character and gain a new one, but I find that to be brilliant even if I can't use a 10 dollar model I purchased.

 

With Fantasy and 40k, I didn't commit to the game till after I had read some of the stories. Gaming systems are a dime a dozen, and as time goes, so are good looking models. If there's no story behind them, then I have no real connection to the models. Sure I craft my own sagas for my models, but an overarching story is interesting to me and actually, to all the players in my gaming group.

 

An existing character twist I would be interested in is Arjac being turned into a dreadnought. If anyone would deserve it, he would.

 

Oh I know people play the game for a lot of reasons, but I think that you have to remember the wholl premise upon which 40K is now built, in that it represents the final days of the 41st millenium. Otherwise it's Wahrammer 41,000 so to speak. The whole bacground as such is set at this turning time and moving things onwards would (imho) break the whole game. In effect GW set themselves up for that by hinging the whole thing around a certain point in time, initially (bearing in mind I have played 40K since it was released in 1st edition) it wasn't so heavily focussed on the exact point in time, GW added this later and there was a lot more flexibility "in the olden days" :lol:.

 

GW walks a dangerous path with the 40K fluff as it stands which could make or break their fortunes.