Codex: Star Shields

[thade]

How's this sound for a revised Focus and Fury:

 

Focused March: A model with this rule can move and fire Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons as if he had not moved. Models that move and fire Heavy weapons must take a Difficult Terrain test. All other restrictions for Deep-Strike, disembarking from a vehicle and launching assaults apply.

 

In addition, models with this rule do not gain an Attack bonus when launching an assault.

Simplified:

 

Focused March: Models with this rule may declare each phase whether they are using Focused March. Only models with Focused March may benefit from Focused March. When a model declares it is using Focused March, all models in its unit move as if in Difficult Terrain. In addition, any models in the unit with the Focused March special rule may fire Heavy weapons this turn, even though they have moved. Models may not launch an assault when using Focused March.

 

Models with the Focused March special rule never gain a bonus attack when launching an assault.

[thade]

War Saw: A war saw is a two-handed chainsword based on the heavy ice-cutting tools used by the Ursalis Clans. Successful armour saves made against wounds from a war saw must be re-rolled. Models attacking with a war saw do not gain the +1 Attack bonus for having a second close combat weapon.

I like this, especially if it means Captains can't take standard Power Weapons. It's actually kind of a harsh nerf for melee...but if you allow the Captain to rock the S10 Power Fist, still make it super expensive. This is also a fine weapon for the Vanguard Sergeant to take...or even the Assault Sergeant.

 

This is NOT a fine weapon as standard wargear for any non-Vetaran troops. ;) Again, based on the goal that this chapter's assault viability must be weaker than vanilla marines given their enhanced fire power.

 

Given that THs at S10 are insane, I wonder if +40 is enough? Probably, if only the Captain can take them.

 

I admit I'm not sure I like the Captain being able to take a Storm Shield...he's already as strong as a Dreadnought with a fist/hammer. It's also not really necessary as he's got a 4++ from the Iron Halo anyway.

 

Make the Multimelta/Heavy bolter weapons that replace other weapons. No reason he should be able to take a rapid-fire and a heavy weapon.

 

You'll want to add that the Terminator Honour Guard get Power Swords alongside those Storm Bolters...unless you really want their standard wargear to be a Stormbolter and no power weapon. I do think they should have something. ;)

 

I like the Chapter Banner's effect and points cost.

 

Otherwise it looks alright, given a once over.

[SnakeoilSage]

Simplified:

 

Focused March: Models with this rule may declare each phase whether they are using Focused March. Only models with Focused March may benefit from Focused March. When a model declares it is using Focused March, all models in its unit move as if in Difficult Terrain. In addition, any models in the unit with the Focused March special rule may fire Heavy weapons this turn, even though they have moved. Models may not launch an assault when using Focused March.

 

Models with the Focused March special rule never gain a bonus attack when launching an assault.

 

Simplified Simplified:

 

Focused March: Focused March models can shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase, but must take a Difficult Terrain test to move and fire heavy weapons. The restrictions for deep-strike and disembarking still apply. They cannot launch assaults on the same turn they fire and never gain an Attack bonus when launching an assault.

[thade]

Simplified Simplified:

 

Focused March: Focused March models can shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase, but must take a Difficult Terrain test to move and fire heavy weapons. They cannot launch assaults on the same turn they fire and never gain an Attack bonus when launching an assault.

Not to toot my own horn, but mine was less ambiguous and it's order of operations fit with the order of phases; more in tune with the game format. Still, yours is fine if you prefer it.

 

Also, I'm not sure they should get the single 24" shot off boltguns when moving...which is why I omitted rapid-fire weapons from my re-write there. Mass 24" engagement range with bolters is a GK thing. Unless tactical squads/Dev squads don't get this ability? (Which would surprise me, honestly.)

[SnakeoilSage]

I like this, especially if it means Captains can't take standard Power Weapons. It's actually kind of a harsh nerf for melee...but if you allow the Captain to rock the S10 Power Fist, still make it super expensive. This is also a fine weapon for the Vanguard Sergeant to take...or even the Assault Sergeant.

 

This is NOT a fine weapon as standard wargear for any non-Vetaran troops. :) Again, based on the goal that this chapter's assault viability must be weaker than vanilla marines given their enhanced fire power.

 

Given that THs at S10 are insane, I wonder if +40 is enough? Probably, if only the Captain can take them.

 

I admit I'm not sure I like the Captain being able to take a Storm Shield...he's already as strong as a Dreadnought with a fist/hammer. It's also not really necessary as he's got a 4++ from the Iron Halo anyway.

 

Make the Multimelta/Heavy bolter weapons that replace other weapons. No reason he should be able to take a rapid-fire and a heavy weapon.

 

You'll want to add that the Terminator Honour Guard get Power Swords alongside those Storm Bolters...unless you really want their standard wargear to be a Stormbolter and no power weapon. I do think they should have something. :P

 

I like the Chapter Banner's effect and points cost.

 

Otherwise it looks alright, given a once over.

 

I made the changes as mentioned; I agree that giving him a storm shield is kind of amusing. if players want lots of Shields in their army, they can mod the Iron Halo to serve as a kind of shield (maybe a shoulder-pad shield?)

[SnakeoilSage]

Simplified Simplified:

 

Focused March: Focused March models can shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase, but must take a Difficult Terrain test to move and fire heavy weapons. They cannot launch assaults on the same turn they fire and never gain an Attack bonus when launching an assault.

Not to toot my own horn, but mine was less ambiguous and it's order of operations fit with the order of phases; more in tune with the game format. Still, yours is fine if you prefer it.

 

Also, I'm not sure they should get the single 24" shot off boltguns when moving...which is why I omitted rapid-fire weapons from my re-write there. Mass 24" engagement range with bolters is a GK thing. Unless tactical squads/Dev squads don't get this ability? (Which would surprise me, honestly.)

 

Your description is accurate, but it feels... too step-by-step. I think if we use specific vocabulary there shouldn't be a problem. I agree that having it only apply to heavy weapons makes sense.

 

So how about: Models with this rule can shoot heavy weapons counting as stationary, but must take a Difficult Terrain test. They cannot launch assaults on the same turn they fire and never gain an Attack bonus when launching an assault?

[thade]

So how about: Models with this rule can shoot heavy weapons counting as stationary, but must take a Difficult Terrain test. They cannot launch assaults on the same turn they fire and never gain an Attack bonus when launching an assault?

That definitely doesn't work and highlights why I was so pedantic with my writing.

 

The ability boosts Shooting. Movement takes place before shooting. Definitely doesn't hurt to be clear that the movement affected is in the current turn (which is not clear, especially with that writing there).

 

Really...there's no such thing as too step-by-step. If the rules were as step-by-step as my example up there (or even a little bit more) we wouldn't need the Official Rules board to clear them up constantly. :) Try to be too step-by-step. You want it!

[SnakeoilSage]

That definitely doesn't work and highlights why I was so pedantic with my writing.

 

The ability boosts Shooting. Movement takes place before shooting. Definitely doesn't hurt to be clear that the movement affected is in the current turn (which is not clear, especially with that writing there).

 

Really...there's no such thing as too step-by-step. If the rules were as step-by-step as my example up there (or even a little bit more) we wouldn't need the Official Rules board to clear them up constantly. :) Try to be too step-by-step. You want it!

 

Alright, we'll play it safe.

 

Now that brings up another question; should this rule still replace Combat Tactics and Combat Squads? I'm thinking that it balances itself out enough that we might be able to keep Combat Squads, or does having S5 I3 qualify? Thoughts?

[thade]

Pretty much standard to forfeit Combat Tactics in exchange for something like this. Consider Red Thirst! which isn't always in effect, and when it is it's only partially a buff...Fearless isn't always a good thing.

[SnakeoilSage]

Pretty much standard to forfeit Combat Tactics in exchange for something like this. Consider Red Thirst! which isn't always in effect, and when it is it's only partially a buff...Fearless isn't always a good thing.

 

A partial buff I can get behind. What would fit the fluff, though...

 

How about this: the Shields are a "smart" chapter; maybe that can be reflected? They're meticulous planners and because they're naturally slower than other Marines they tend to plan things ahead. Maybe we can give them a temporary buff that helps with deployment? Maybe certain models can make an Infiltration move, or we can re-roll deployment/table-edge/first turn? Maybe a 6+ cover save in the first round?

[thade]

Not really what I meant... :lol: I meant that your replacement for Combat Tactics was on par (or better than) the BA's Red Thirst! so it's fine as is.

 

Perhaps a special character that lets you re-roll the Deployment roll-off is something to consider, to help you reflect that? (Also, in general you'll want to tool your specials waaaay down, at least at first. Some of those guys are like Mephistons-on-a-Budget.)

[SnakeoilSage]

Don't BA's get ATSKNF, Descent of Angels, Red Thirst and Combat Squads? Ah well, I'm not too worried about that.

 

I think giving the Star Shields ATSKNF, Focused March, and Combat Squads is perfect, but if necessary I'm okay with dropping Combat Squads to give them something more unique.

[angryswarmofbees]

I love this! Especially the fluff; my own DIY was something like it but to be honest yours is much better. Glad another chapter is seeking out the Imperial Truth. Also I love the rules...this is more what I imagine marines to fight like. Massive hulks marching relentlessly towards their enemy shooting them with equally massive guns! Love it!

 

As others have said though I think the points for the special characters is a little low. Especially the guy who unlocks sternguard as troops. I'd pay anything for him.

 

Great work.

[thade]

I'd keep Combat Squads. It's true they have DoA which is pretty good for their DSing. Hmm...

 

Okay, here's something interesting. Consider adding this to Focused March:

 

Infantry models with Focused March march may re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests when not Deep Striking.

[thade]

Unerring Vigilance (on your chapter master) is kind of broken...especially if he only costs 230. The model also has an I2 S10 weapon (which, by the way, really doesn't need the d3 wounds modifier as it will Instant Death almost everything it hits). For 230 I'd drop the Hammer down to I1, drop its d3 wounds-thing, keep the +1 on the damage table but make it flat (i.e. if he hits and glances or pens, he gets that +1 on the table). Also, drop Unerring Vigilance.

 

OR I recommend boosting his cost to 250 and changing Unerring Vigilance to something like this (which has more than a few precedents in the game already):

 

Unerring Vigilance: While (this awesome bamf) is on the table, all units in his army take Morale checks (rallying at end of combat, or when falling back, etc...not Ld checks or psychic checks) on his unmodified Leadership.

[SnakeoilSage]

Unerring Vigilance (on your chapter master) is kind of broken...especially if he only costs 230. The model also has an I2 S10 weapon (which, by the way, really doesn't need the d3 wounds modifier as it will Instant Death almost everything it hits). For 230 I'd drop the Hammer down to I1, drop its d3 wounds-thing, keep the +1 on the damage table but make it flat (i.e. if he hits and glances or pens, he gets that +1 on the table). Also, drop Unerring Vigilance.

 

OR I recommend boosting his cost to 250 and changing Unerring Vigilance to something like this (which has more than a few precedents in the game already):

 

Unerring Vigilance: While (this awesome bamf) is on the table, all units in his army take Morale checks (rallying at end of combat, or when falling back, etc...not Ld checks or psychic checks) on his unmodified Leadership.

 

Well here's how I was gonna nerf/improve Shieldbane.

 

-Retool his Characteristics to so he's back to T4, I3.

- Take away Sternguard as Troop Choices.

- Take away all his thunder hammer's abilities except vehicle damage.

- I'd like to retool Unerring Vigilance so it only affects Shieldbane himself, and not anyone else.

 

I like your leadership idea; maybe we could switch it so it only affects units within 18" of him?

 

And as for the second army rule, I like it. Fits their ground-pounder style. But it seems a little too good, almost. Maybe we could do something more roll of the dice, some might have it some might not, like the Red Thirst rule? Like on a roll of a 6, each infantry unit counts as Stealthy in the first round? I used to have some fluff for the Star Shields that they liked to start a battle by filling it with a chill mist (Ursalis is actually a very cloudy, foggy planet, when it's not blizzarding that is, and Ursalans prefer the "closed in" feel of the fog).

[thade]

Rerolling Dangerous Terrain is not that bad. It's effectively like a lil' dozer blade for each guy. (Not a literal dozer blade; that would be dumb. ;) )Fits the fluff and isn't as good as DoA is for BA, but at the same time it makes up for whatever you may find lacking with their other ability. It's pretty tame, by my estimation.

 

I hadn't noticed his stat line was unusual; I think he should be S5 T4 I3 like everybody else...as a captain figure he gets +1I to his stat line but as an older member of your chapter he gets an additional -1 for being freakin old. Balances out there. ;)

 

I definitely concur on dropping the Troop-choice unlock. If he's at 250 points, U.V. can totally apply to the force at large. If you're running infantry heavy (which is how I see this army for some reason) then he's awesome. If not, well, he's a character for that variation (which is what a codex is about). Make another character to fit the vehicle heavy variation. <3 We'll get to that next.

 

I need lunch first tho.

[SnakeoilSage]

Rerolling Dangerous Terrain is not that bad. It's effectively like a lil' dozer blade for each guy. (Not a literal dozer blade; that would be dumb. ;) )Fits the fluff and isn't as good as DoA is for BA, but at the same time it makes up for whatever you may find lacking with their other ability. It's pretty tame, by my estimation.

 

I hadn't noticed his stat line was unusual; I think he should be S5 T4 I3 like everybody else...as a captain figure he gets +1I to his stat line but as an older member of your chapter he gets an additional -1 for being freakin old. Balances out there. ;)

 

I definitely concur on dropping the Troop-choice unlock. If he's at 250 points, U.V. can totally apply to the force at large. If you're running infantry heavy (which is how I see this army for some reason) then he's awesome. If not, well, he's a character for that variation (which is what a codex is about). Make another character to fit the vehicle heavy variation. <3 We'll get to that next.

 

I need lunch first tho.

 

Hmm, you do have a point there. Maybe I could make a little armoury addition that lets Sergeants for certain units purchase smoke grenades? Work like smoke launchers? One use only? I like that idea a lot. lol

 

Well I4 would work. He's not really that old if you read the fluff, maybe three centuries? Three and a half? Okay maybe that is freakin' old. I just don't want him getting wiped because someone drops, I dunno, Jaws of the World Wolf on him.

 

Awesome. 250 I can live with to keep enemy characters from screwin' with an admittedly already shaky Characteristic setup. Naturally it only affects the enemy's ability to alter the stats, not our own (so yeah, Initiative 1 weapons are still Initiative 1).

 

Vehicle Heavy... yeah. Hmm. Never really considered it. Always thought of the Star Shields as a Devastator army. I guess it wouldn't hurt to cover my bases, though. Someone might see all this heavy firepower and want to get in on that.

 

Maybe we could go the Blood Angels route and give every tank Extra Armour for free? *Chuckle*

[thade]

Hmm, you do have a point there. Maybe I could make a little armoury addition that lets Sergeants for certain units purchase smoke grenades? Work like smoke launchers? One use only? I like that idea a lot. lol

This has some merit to it, but I would make it like this: on a special sergeant Named upgrade (unique character) who has +1BS and is otherwise identical to sergeants except for the Smoke Grenades...which work only once per game and only for his unit. Otherwise, they grant a 4+ cover save for the following enemy turn.

 

I just don't want him getting wiped because someone drops, I dunno, Jaws of the World Wolf on him.

And who does, really. But you're highlighting one reason why it's hard to write a codex for a chapter you're invested in: you want them to be super so they never never diez. Note that virtually all ICs in the game are vulnerable to JotWW. Yours should be no different. Use Psychic Hoods and otherwise kill those Psykers dead.

 

Awesome. 250 I can live with to keep enemy characters from screwin' with an admittedly already shaky Characteristic setup. Naturally it only affects the enemy's ability to alter the stats, not our own (so yeah, Initiative 1 weapons are still Initiative 1).

I forgot that part. I still think you should drop the whole "other units can't affect my guys's statlines" because, frankly, no amount of gusto is going to make your guys realistically resistant to chemical weapon gas grenades and also weird warp powers. Let them suffer sometimes; your opponent's abilities should work. Your opponent's abilities should work. They should work. <3

 

Vehicle Heavy... yeah. Hmm. Never really considered it. Always thought of the Star Shields as a Devastator army. I guess it wouldn't hurt to cover my bases, though. Someone might see all this heavy firepower and want to get in on that.

Hey man, if you don't see a need for a vehicle heavy IC, it's not so bad.

 

Maybe we could go the Blood Angels route and give every tank Extra Armour for free? *Chuckle*

You mean like the Fast Rhinos? Which are all way more expensive than normal Rhinos? ;) That Fast definitely is not free.

[SnakeoilSage]

This has some merit to it, but I would make it like this: on a special sergeant Named upgrade (unique character) who has +1BS and is otherwise identical to sergeants except for the Smoke Grenades...which work only once per game and only for his unit. Otherwise, they grant a 4+ cover save for the following enemy turn.

 

How about if the smoke grenades only grant a 6+ cover save (or +1 to an existing save), but they can still shoot?

 

And who does, really. But you're highlighting one reason why it's hard to write a codex for a chapter you're invested in: you want them to be super so they never never diez. Note that virtually all ICs in the game are vulnerable to JotWW. Yours should be no different. Use Psychic Hoods and otherwise kill those Psykers dead.

 

Right right. Golden Rule. Strategy not superiority. Batman, not Superman.

 

I forgot that part. I still think you should drop the whole "other units can't affect my guys's statlines" because, frankly, no amount of gusto is going to make your guys realistically resistant to chemical weapon gas grenades and also weird warp powers. Let them suffer sometimes; your opponent's abilities should work. Your opponent's abilities should work. They should work. <3

 

Alright. Batman/Superman. I just cringe at the thought of what someone like Commander Dante can do to a special character.

 

Hey man, if you don't see a need for a vehicle heavy IC, it's not so bad.

 

I don't personally; the main flavor of the Chapter is a march of Space Marines with heavy weapons. Naturally Tanks have their advantages and I'm not going to say anywhere that the Chapter doesn't love it some extra-heavy firepower, but when it comes down to it a Star Shield is happiest when he's got a heavy bolter in his hands.

 

You mean like the Fast Rhinos? Which are all way more expensive than normal Rhinos? ;) That Fast definitely is not free.

 

Extra armour would be cheaper, though. Eh. Let's not play around with the vehicles. I tend to feel that Space Marine tanks are just fine they way they are (naturally there will be those who disagree). Land Raiders really are the best tanks in the game.

 

Actually I've been thinking about nerving the Hepaestus; let it keep the Demolisher cannon but change its sponson weapons to something that's also a good punch at mid-range, like hurricane bolters. I think I'd prefer that over the flamers. Or even twin-linked heavy bolters. Or assault cannons. And take away the Lancer upgrade and maybe give it to a new Predator variant and/or expensive Razorback.

 

Cripes, didn't I just say I liked tanks fine they way they are?

[thade]

How about if the smoke grenades only grant a 6+ cover save (or +1 to an existing save), but they can still shoot?

Nah, if they can see to shoot, people can see to shoot them. <3 Smoke OR Shoot, not both. In light of that, 4+ and a single special sergeant makes more sense, no?

 

Right right. Golden Rule. Strategy not superiority. Batman, not Superman.

Beautiful.

 

Actually I've been thinking about nerving the Hepaestus...

I'll take a look at more of your characters in a bit. ;)

[SnakeoilSage]

Nah, if they can see to shoot, people can see to shoot them. <3 Smoke OR Shoot, not both. In light of that, 4+ and a single special sergeant makes more sense, no?

 

True. I think I can make a special character for the job. Not an upgrade Sergeant, though. Or maybe a Scout Sergeant? Hmm.

 

Right right. Golden Rule. Strategy not superiority. Batman, not Superman.

Beautiful.

 

*Laughs* Thanks.

 

I'll take a look at more of your characters in a bit. ;)

 

Cool.

[SnakeoilSage]

Okay! I've posted a complete update on the front page. Hope you guys like the new version!

[chaplain belisarius]

i like your chapter...:evil:

[thade]

Dramatic improvements! Well done! Overall this is looks good to me and needs some heavy play-testing to ensure that points balance is appropriately tuned.

 

I've got a few thoughts:

• If memory serves, Blessing of the Omnissiah is a hit or miss power...meaning if you roll high enough to succeed, you succeed. In otherwords, the IC's ability to re-roll it need not be constrained by "he must keep the second roll", as he wouldn't have re-rolled at all had he already succeeded. If something in your codex modifies BotO to somehow change with the number rolled, that's something else.
  
• Consider giving Drake a bit of a buff so he's better equipped to handle some of the nastier ICs out there (for instance, Mephiston)...possibly increase his cost to 200, flat, and change his vs IC rule to be "versus Independent Characters and any Infantry unit that always consists of a single model (this includes all types of Infantry, such as Jump Infantry, Bike Infantry, etc.)."
  
• The LR Hephastus is broken. <3 260 points for an all-around AV14 Demolisher Cannon that can carry ten models? Consider that there's a Forge World variant LR that has a built-in Thunderfire cannon but no carrying capacity. I would at least drop the tank's ability to carry troops (consider it needs room for its high explosive ammunition). I do think that very low-impact sponsons (like hurricane or heavy bolters) are a good idea. Consider imposing a special restriction on the tank, such that it cannot fire the Demolisher cannon and anything else (as if it were Ordnance, Barrage...without the benefit of blind-fire, of course).
  

Nice work. :devil:

 

EDIT: Clarification.