SnakeoilSage Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 i like your chapter...:lol: Thanks Belisarius. ;) I'm hoping to get a DIY Astartes article ready for the Librarium if the Mods will allow it. Most of the fluff will go there. Dramatic improvements! Well done! Overall this is looks good to me and needs some heavy play-testing to ensure that points balance is appropriately tuned. I've got a few thoughts: If memory serves, Blessing of the Omnissiah is a hit or miss power...meaning if you roll high enough to succeed, you succeed. In otherwords, the IC's ability to re-roll it need not be constrained by "he must keep the second roll", as he wouldn't have re-rolled at all had he already succeeded. If something in your codex modifies BotO to somehow change with the number rolled, that's something else. Alright. I added it for clarification; a line like "re-roll any failed Blessing of the Omnissiah" attempts is all the fodder some people need to say that "any" roll, even a re-roll, can be re-rolled. Consider giving Drake a bit of a buff so he's better equipped to handle some of the nastier ICs out there (for instance, Mephiston)...possibly increase his cost to 200, flat, and change his vs IC rule to be "versus Independent Characters and any Infantry unit that always consists of a single model (this includes all types of Infantry, such as Jump Infantry, Bike Infantry, etc.)." Would that include monstrous creatures? The LR Hephastus is broken. <3 260 points for an all-around AV14 Demolisher Cannon that can carry ten models? Consider that there's a Forge World variant LR that has a built-in Thunderfire cannon but no carrying capacity. I would at least drop the tank's ability to carry troops (consider it needs room for its high explosive ammunition). I do think that very low-impact sponsons (like hurricane or heavy bolters) are a good idea. Consider imposing a special restriction on the tank, such that it cannot fire the Demolisher cannon and anything else (as if it were Ordnance, Barrage...without the benefit of blind-fire, of course). Okay, how about we scratch the Demolisher cannon and make it an autocannon? The Hephaestus could be a hybrid Land Raider/Predator. And maybe no Terminators allowed? Basically a big Rhino with the Land Raider's extra space for the Predator parts? I've also been puzzling over another Heavy Support unit, just to fit the theme. I was thinking of a Dread Knight model, armed only with ranged weapons, counts as a monstrous creature? Or maybe a single model unit, like a Space Wolf Lone Wolf, but focused on heavy weapons and bringing down monstrous creatures and walkers? He can't join units but he has bonuses to infiltration and stealth because he's basically a big-game hunter, looking to bag a trophy and win some honour according to Ursalan traditions? Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2862622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I would say "No" to the question of whether Monstrous Creatures should be included...just off the cuff though. Like I said, time for extensive play-testing. If you keep the Demolisher cannon I'd give it either TL-HB sponsons or no sponsons at all...maybe make the sponsons purchaseable upgrades at 15 a pop (and you have to buy the pair, so 30 total) and otherwise make the base cost of the tank (AV14 with the Demolisher cannon) like 250. I still think it should have no carrying capacity. As for the Autocannon idea, that's actually not bad at all. Consider that an autocannon is sort of on part with an assault cannon (while they serve different functions, they're points-wise similar where they are swappable) and you could even make it TL. I'd say "No assault ramp" and "restricted carrying capacity"...i.e. eight infantry models, all to account for the front half of the transport being used for the gun and ammo loading systems. You could give this tank some fun sponsons, like Hurricane Bolters or even some autocannon sponsons...as if it were a very large Predator. Now this is very much like a Phobos pattern, S7 instead of 9, two shots instead of one...extra S7 gun on the front instead of the HB...260 points seems fair to me. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2863186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 just had a radical idea...not sure if its any good but thought id share... How about all star shields are I3, S4 but can move and fire heavy weapons (counting as moving through difficult terrain). Sergeants and captains have the option to take heavy weapons too... what do you guys think? I was thinking the S5 could make them too hard in melee-sure they are strong but maybe this strength is represented by granting the ability to move and fire heavy weapons? (and take devs as troops too...) @snakeoilsage-id read your IA-i think you have some great ideas for fluff for your chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2863200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think the stat line modifications and army rules as-presented are all okay; not sure I see any merit in changing them further without testing. EDIT: Clarification! I mean don't change any of that stuff. We're past that now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2863205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 @chaplain belisarius: I'm glad you like my fluff; I've actually got a lot more than what I had posted up earlier. When I started this project I got pretty carried away and tried to write up a full-length codex. I took the fluff and cut, pasted, and trimmed it up into a nice little package that I hope to get submitted to the Librarium. I sent a message to one of the codicers but oddly he just repeated the message back to me so I'm trying again with another. *Laughs* As for your idea; my HQ's and Elite's are at Initiative 3 and can carry heavy weapons if they want; I limited it to heavy bolters and multimeltas (or heavy flamers and assault cannons for Terminators). HQ's and Elites are the only ones that get S5, and I've deliberately limited their options for carrying Power Fists, Chainfists and Thunderhammers. No unit besides Roan Drake has WS 6, the Chapter doesn't get bonus attacks on the charge, and what close combat weapons they have access to are a fair bit more expensive than they would be for other Chapters (the Star Shields don't build as many of them, preferring to produce more guns and ammo). @thade: Thinking about it now, the Hephaestus just seems more and more vestigal. There are already plenty of Land Raider variants and this one seems kind of silly. Demolisher Cannons and Flamestorm cannons was OP and the more we nerf it the more I realize I just wanted an ubertank: I wanted a Superman, not a Batmnan. I've given the Predators an option to take a Lancer, that's about as far as we have to go for new tank options. I don't think anyone will miss the Hephaestus when they see the kind of options they have at the HQ-Elite-Troop levels. They'll be perfectly happy with the Space Marine tanks that are already available. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2863245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 @snakeoilsage-yeah-that makes sense! was just an idea i had today.. I really do like your chapter...even wrote up a 1k list of them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2863371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 @snakeoilsage-yeah-that makes sense! was just an idea i had today.. I really do like your chapter...even wrote up a 1k list of them... Fantastic man. You should post it up here and see if you can convince someone to fight it. I'm eager for some playtest feedback. Gonna head down to the club tomorrow and try it against some Orks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2863509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Okay, I've got the fluff written up and posted in the Liber Astartes. Check it out here! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 zoom! :ph34r: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 zoom! :ph34r: *Laughs* Enjoy! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 my rough 1k star shields army- chaplain belisarius, 2x ten man devastator squads-4xmultimeltas 2x rhinos-h/k missiles? 2x vindicators(i like vindicators!) a dreadnought? (if points allow!) maybe get sergeants heavy bolters/multimeltas if points allow too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 my rough 1k star shields army- chaplain belisarius, 2x ten man devastator squads-4xmultimeltas 2x rhinos-h/k missiles? 2x vindicators(i like vindicators!) a dreadnought? (if points allow!) maybe get sergeants heavy bolters/multimeltas if points allow too? Nice! I'm thinking you've got a good tank-busting force there. Star Shields would definitely field Vindicators before most other tanks. Gotta love the demolisher cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 i may of found my chapter...i can take devs as troops, right? :ph34r: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 i may of found my chapter...i can take devs as troops, right? ;) Yup! It's in the Army List. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 heh!heh! boom! dakka!dakka! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 heh!heh! boom! dakka!dakka! :) Too much dakka! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 I had a great battle today with one of the blokes I playtested the first version of the Star Shields with. He brought his Speed Freek Orks back for another go at the Chapter, with plenty of Boyz, Trukks, Bikers, and a few squads of Lootas and Mega-Armoured Nobs led by a Warboss. The battle was 2000 Points with 2 Objectives on more or less open ground. 2000 Point Star Shields Force "Helm's Hammer" -HQ- HELM SHIELDBANE Deployed with Honour Guard HONOUR GUARD Chapter Banner Shield Bearer with Stalker boltgun - x2 Kodiak-pattern Boltguns Razorback w/ Hunter-Killer Missile LIBRARIAN Deployed with Sternguard Heavy Bolter Squad Powers: Levitate, Implode -ELITE- STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD x2 Heavy Bolters Razorback w/Hunter-Killer Missile STERNGUARD VETERAN SQUAD x2 Plasma Cannons Razorback /w Hunter-Killer Missile -TROOP- DEVASTATOR SQUAD x4 Multi-melta Sergeant Relius Razorback w/ Hunter-Killer Missile DEVASTATOR SQUAD x4 Heavy Bolters Sergeant w/ Heavy Bolter Razorback w/ Hunter-Killer Missile DEVASTATOR SQUAD x4 Heavy Bolters Sergeant w/ Heavy Bolter Razorback w/Hunter-Killer Missile DEVASTATOR SQUAD x4 Heavy Bolters Sergeant w/ Heavy Bolter Razorback w/Hunter-Killer Missile -HEAVY SUPPORT- WHIRLWIND w/ Hunter-Killer Missile 1 The Star Shields went first, and as you expected I unleashed every Hunter-Killer Missile I had, plus a round of Whirlwind missiles, and the Orbital Strike. The results were devastating, with two Trukks stunned, one exploding and taking out half of its Boys, a unit of Bikers slaughtered, and most of his Mega Armoured Nobs were vaporized by a pin-point Orbital Bombardment. Relius led his men aboard their Razorback to outflank the remaining Bikers and start picking off Stormboys and Kopters, and the rest of my force began a slow march partially behind their Razorbacks, creating moving wall of armour between my men an the Orks. There was little in the way of return fire, because the Speed Freeks were built for melee and speed. They began to swarm my way, with Trukks and Bikes roaring forth to meet the Razorbacks while the Koptas and Stormboys turned towards Relius' group. 2 In the next turn, I began opening up with Heavy Bolters, with most of my Devastators and Sternguard pushing up to stand in-between Razorbacks. Punishing fields of Heavy Bolter fire began tearing apart Orks and Trukks, and the Sternguard Plasma Squad destroyed a Trukk. Unfortunately it didn't put as many greenskins as I would have liked. In the Ork's turn, the stormboys and koptas swarmed on Relius' razorback, but failed to damage it. Some of his forces exited their Trukks but their shooting was awful. Some of his ground-based Boyz charged into close combat, and my small units didn't fair so well, with some of the Sternguard being killed and the rest being destroyed in the following pursuit phase. The Warboss moved in to face Helm, but didn't make the charge. 3 I faired much better the next turn, with Heavy Bolters massacring the Orks that left their trucks. Concentrated fire resultd in two squads fleeing. Relius departed his Razorback and opened up on the Koptas, killing a few of them. Helm managed a charge on the Ork Warboss, and as expeted Helm's Thunderhammer just popped the Warboss in one round, Helm's Honour Guard held back, using their bolters to massacre the rest of the Mega-Armoured Nobs. The Ork boys retaliated, driving a unit of Devastators into retreat, but their numbers didn't do so well in the tight spaces between my Razorbacks, and the Strength of my Veterans, Honour Guard, and Helm managed to splatter a few Orks to hold the line. Relius was attacked and sadly slaughtered by the Stormboys. 4 My Razorbacks opened up on pretty much everything, taking out a ton of Orks and limiting his force considerably. He had a chance to overwhem my Devastators, but my armour saves managed to save most of them. Helm personally massacred a unit of 12 Orks with a well placed grenade shot and his hammer. Relius' Razorback got a few hits on the Stormboys and my Whirlwind took out a few more. The Orks continued their attack on my forces, killing a unit of Devastators and sending another fleeing, but fortunately it wasn't run down. Helm continued to massacre Orks left and right. 5 Finally my luck returned. Relius' Razorback killed the last of the Stormboys and claimed an objective. My whirlwind caused a Trukk to explode, taking a few Lootas with it, and the remainder were cut down by my other Razorbacks. What units were still in melee managed to turn the tide thanks to their improved strength and the Orks began to retreat. Helm ended his turn within 3" of the second objective and the Orks were really just a scattered force of bikes, wartrucks and boyz. My opponent decided if he couldn't beat me he'd at least contest me, and piled his Trukks in around Helm. 6 Helm hit one with his Thunderhammer and caused it to be wrecked. My forces opened up on the Trukks with all they had, and exploded two, and my Librarian managed to Implode one, but one was left contesting the spot. The orks took a few pot shots but he was clearly outnumbered; I had more Razorbacks, and I still had a few Devastators with heavy bolters, and both my HQ's were still standing. Since we both had an objective we settled it with kill points, of which I had a much higher tally thanks to my Orbital Strike and the sheer firepower I'd brought to bear. It was declared a victory for my side, though I still felt kind of battered from losing so many units. I think my force did pretty good. I liked using the Razorbacks as a kind of moving wall, and their heavy bolters were welcome, but I think if I take on Orks again I'll get Rhinos and maybe more Tactical Squads. And fewer Hunter-Killers. They didn't do so great. Next time I use Relius for flanking I'll give his unit heavy bolters, not multimeltas. Helm however was a powerhouse, stomping Orks left and right. My opponent knew about Helm's Strength 5, but he still though that his build could take him (he was built for speedy attacks and he did land a fair number of them, but without a power klaw my Terminator armour was just too much, and Helm's return attack absolutely pasted him. All in all I like how the battle turned out! It didn't favour my homebrew so much that I won and overwhelming victory, and it was mostly due to luck with the dice that I survive those harrowing moments in close combat. That and a bunch of Orks couldn't make that 2" distance to reach the units, being clogged between Razorbacks and all. That was a good call, I say. So yeah! I'm happy with the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2864790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 that sounds good! but..why no vindicators? :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2865314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks for sharing the bat rep. You hit him pretty hard, but that's what HBs do to Orks. ^_^ I wonder if you had an all-comers or a more fluffy list (like, Dev team 1: HBs, Dev Team 2: MMs, Dev Team 3: Lascannons, Dev Team 4: MLs...or one of each in each of hte four squads) how it would have gone? Might be a better test for you, as it's less geared towards Orks and more geared towards anybody. No? :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2865320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 that sounds good! but..why no vindicators? ;) lol I wanted to field as many Devastators as I could. The Whirlwind had just enough points to make it an even 2000. Thanks for sharing the bat rep. You hit him pretty hard, but that's what HBs do to Orks. I wonder if you had an all-comers or a more fluffy list (like, Dev team 1: HBs, Dev Team 2: MMs, Dev Team 3: Lascannons, Dev Team 4: MLs...or one of each in each of hte four squads) how it would have gone? Might be a better test for you, as it's less geared towards Orks and more geared towards anybody. No? Actually that list was fluffy; in my opinion a Star Shield will pick up a heavy bolter first and only turn to the rest of his armoury if tactics call for it. And Relius and his multimeltas didn't do jack so I'd be reluctant to use him in that fashion. Maybe give him all the HB's and use him to hunt flankers? But you have a good point. I've got another game due on Sunday and I think I can re-tool the list to be an all-comers force. It was just so fun to have so many heavy bolters on the field, from Honour Guard, Sternguard, Devastators and Razorbacks. Too much dakka! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2865362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 i like multimeltas...is it ok to take them? (im paranoid about lacking anti tank!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2865429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 i like multimeltas...is it ok to take them? (im paranoid about lacking anti tank!) You can take any sort of weapon that's available on the list, I'm just partial to the heavy bolters. Probably because they can take out so many Orks. lol Seriously, 2000 points of Speed Freeks is a LOT of Ors. Packs and packs of Boys. And Stormboys, and Bike boys. Oi. Heavy Bolters felt good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2865639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 i used to play orks..that many heavy bolters is not good! (my army was goffs, footslogging...tons of boyz!) just realised on your list it says 1-2 dreads can be taken per elite slot? why is this? is there a fluff reasoning behind this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2866187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 i used to play orks..that many heavy bolters is not good! (my army was goffs, footslogging...tons of boyz!) just realised on your list it says 1-2 dreads can be taken per elite slot? why is this? is there a fluff reasoning behind this? Yes 8th Company owns all the Dreadnoughts, which is lead by a Dreadnought Captain. The Star Shields have 35 standard Dreadnoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2866323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 ok..was wondering if there is a fluff reason..;) i like dreadnoughts-the models are great! they would make a good "bodyguard" for the advancing dev squads..."no mr hive tyrant! no dev squad for lunch today!" :) i read up on leonardo davinci..he was a very clever man but i think he got bored very easily and was good at procrastination...was it a conscious decision to only concentrate on the positive traits of davinci? sorry for all the questions! oh yeah..there is one more thing..(ha! i did a columbo!) you come up with a chapter badge yet? got any painted star shields? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236731-codex-star-shields/page/6/#findComment-2866895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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