Opinions on Tactics, for new BA player

[Darligulv]

Hey Bolter and Chainsword, I'm a new time BA player... I have to say I absolutely love them.

 

 

So after my last few games I've come to some impasses, and after reading the forums, I have some questions which I'll include below. And would in general like your advice on the units/tactics mentioned.

 

 

Please correct me if I get anything wrong. This may be a bit long, so I appreciate your attention.

Here we go:

 

 

 

 

 

Some information: I usually play 1,750-2,500 point games. (more commonly 2,000+)

My playstyle seems to be DoA, with a maximum of 2-4 vehicles/dreads.

 

What I'm mainly looking for, is if you guys see anything that is greatly inefficient (waste of points, or excessive numbers/gear) I'd love for it to be pointed out.

My list right now is a mess, so instead of posting that, I'll just post up what I'm considering, and their role.

 

HQ's

Librarians: Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicle.

I use them for all around awesome, more specifically I use the for Blood Lance.

I absolutely love Blood Lance. I'm used to playing against Space Wolves, and JotWW always terrified me. When I first read the spell I thought 'Oh...a worse Jaws.'

After my last few games, I feel that is simply not true!

It's able to hit vehicles-- which is great and won't slaughter my own men. It's a psychic shooting attack...so I can DS in and use it.

 

When you use Librarians, what spell load out do you give them? I'm favoring BL + Wings/Sword...

Of course I'm also considering giving him Terminator Armor + a Storm Shield (and upgrading him to use 2 spells per turn if he needs to keep up with a Jumppack squad) Is this a foolish idea? I'm aware it's a major point investment. And *wince* it takes up an HQ slot.

 

So my questions: What spell load outs & Upgrades do you recommend? And do I have to roll to hit with Blood Lance? (It says it "automatically hits" but I've heard some dissent).

 

Dante: Support/Debuff.

I've used him every time thus-far. His ability to bestow penalties has been a great asset...but to be honest, other than the 100% accuracy for DS I'm not really sure where to put him. I basically have him for Libby delivery. Am I wasting his talents? ...More importantly am I wasting 200+ points? What do I do with this man?

 

 

 

OthersEveryone seems to really like using Mephiston--but him not being an IC and without Eternal warrior...or any Invul save...seems too risky for my blood.

 

Astorath....I just don't see a solid use for this guy. He's powerful enough... making them re-roll saves. But if I have Lemmy for my DC, why would I need him?

 

Sanguinor - too expensive, too easily shot down right? Has anyone a good experience using him over other HQs?

 

-----

Elites

 

Dreadnought Librarian:Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicle Used one in my last game and it more than paid for itself. It even got immobilized, but (again) I had given it BL. So it was a constant threat and soaked up my opponent's resources. But at it's cost--fielding only 1 model, and taking up a competitive elite spot, do you guys find that these have been worth it?

 

The ability to move 12" (wings) Pop smoke, and then assault a vehicle seems real nifty.

 

 

 

Furioso: Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicle

Haven't tried one yet...But I'd be tempted to put on in a Drop Pod w/ a Locator beacon, as an alternative to using Dante` as a glorified one. I'd like to know how Magna Grapple has worked out for people, against MEQ armies with your standard Vindi/Rhino layouts, as well as other things such as Dark Eldar which can field lots of smaller vehicles.

 

Seems like a good replacement for the Librarian Dreadnought if I had to fight a good anti psychic army (Space Wolves, Grey Knights)

 

Sang Guard: Anti-Infantry

I see a lot of people using them, but I feel I can't quite justify their point cost for 1 wound models with no Inv. save...If someone could shed some light on their contribution it'd be appreciated.

 

Sternguard: Customizable/Support

They seem solid, but I'm not sure where to start with them. Tricking them out looks like it could get pricey and quick. With the cost of Dreadnaughts, and Librarians...I'm hesitant to pour points into them.

 

Priests: Support

I have used one in a squad with Dante and some Honor Guard...They're cheap enough to be good.

----

 

Toops

 

Death Company: Deathstar/Anti-Deathstar

I used to play Chaos when I first started, and these guys seem to be Plague Marines and Khornites rolled into one.

That being said, because of them:

---I feel I don't need the Sanguinary Priests, as everybody who's anybody already has FnP and furious Charge.

---I feel I don't need the Mastercrafted weapons of the Sang Guard because all of these boys are re-rolling everything (As long as Lemartes is with them. Which he is. Best friends forever.)

 

I've been loading 10 of them in a Storm Raven + Lemartes, and putting them in an ideal spot for Rage not to hurt me. (usually porting them around to a flank) about 4-3 of them have power weapons and 1-2 power fists.

I'd love to be convinced to not use them if there's good reason.

 

They also let me take a Dreadnought as a Troop choice.

 

What kind of DC load-outs do you guys use? Would you advise not using them at all? (I imagine they're controversial).

----

 

Fast Attack:

Vanguard Veterans: Anti-Vehicle

I love the Vanguard Veterans. I DS them with a Thunder Hammer or two in Combat Squads (I was reading rules, and though it seemed to be debated, it would appear I can use Combat Squads + Heroic Intervention) to blow up Vehicles. It's a bit pricey...but has yet to really let me down.

 

And with sufficient support after the tanks die, they're not just suicidal dead weight.

If I have the points I'll give one or two per squad a pair of lightning claws to help survivability after they get into CC.

 

These guys are my main reliable anti vehicle unit. They can be anywhere I need them to be, and hit that Vindi or Land Raider where it hurts--but perhaps there are better options for the points? (they get veeery expensive).

 

I haven't used other FA, the only other option (in my eyes) is the Baal Predator. Opinions against it vs Vanguard Vets? (I suppose there are Land Speeders too?)

----

 

Heavy

Stormraven: Support/Anti Anything

I had one of these with the DC in the last game. It was fantastic. I gave it side sponsons, and a TL Las...and Multimelta...but in retrospect I'm thinking Plasma is the way to go. I've heard people favor running multiples?

Vindicators: Suppression/Threat

Cheaper than a raven, and great for blowing holes in groups if my DSing units are failing to arrive in time. I've been taking 2 of these and 1 raven.

 

-----

 

 

Any comments, or opposing opinions would be welcome. I'm new to this army, so any tips/advice on who to use for what would be greatly appreciated!

[JamesI]

Welcome to the Bolter and Chainsword!

 

My experience is if you play DoA heavy with 2-4 vehicles at 2000+ points, those vehicles die so fast.

 

Blood Lance does not roll to hit. What else could hit automatically mean? But it is far worse than jaws, since it hits units not models and allows cover saves.

 

Personally, I think the best librarian powers are shield, unleash rage, and fear with sword and lance the next group. I would never use wings, as I can just buy a jump pack and not risk psychic tests. Also, in my opinion Episoltary is not worth the points.

 

The main uses for Astorath are 1) to get more than 1 unit of DC if you want it. 2) to triple the chance of a unit falling to the red thirst. Other than that, he's best used as a chaplain attached to an assault squad.

 

Dante is pretty good in combat, and the ability to deepstrike a unit with no scatter is great as is hit and run. I run Dante attached to an assault squad with 2 meltaguns and an infernus on the sergeant and attacha priest. Nasty unit.

 

 

Sanguinary Guard are pretty good, especially in an army with Dante so they are now troops (and thus scoring). Keep them cheap (I just run the banner and 1 infernus pistol). Attach a pirest and they are really surviviable (make sure they over cover though). This unit on the charge will rip through most units that aren't T6+.

 

 

The best (in my opinion) Fast attack unit in the codex is Attack Bikes. I won't go anywhere without at least 4 with multimeltas.

[Darligulv]

Welcome to the Bolter and Chainsword!

 

My experience is if you play DoA heavy with 2-4 vehicles at 2000+ points, those vehicles die so fast.

 

In that case would you recommend taking fewer vehicles, or more smaller ones so that the loss doesn't hurt so much (Such as the Bikes you've mentioned down below?)

 

Blood Lance does not roll to hit. What else could hit automatically mean? But it is far worse than jaws, since it hits units not models and allows cover saves.

 

Personally, I think the best librarian powers are shield, unleash rage, and fear with sword and lance the next group. I would never use wings, as I can just buy a jump pack and not risk psychic tests. Also, in my opinion Episoltary is not worth the points.

People were informing me the latest FAQ says "all psychic shooting attacks need to roll to hit", but specific>general? Yeah it's pretty clear cut I guess.

I did not realize that about Blood Lance hitting units rather than models though. Hmm...that does give me cause to reconsider. It is just worse than Jaws then.

 

Fear, is that worth it against MEQs with ATSKNF? Would they just auto-consolidate on their next turn even if they failed the forced morale test? I can see it being harsh against Fearless units.

 

Dante is pretty good in combat, and the ability to deepstrike a unit with no scatter is great as is hit and run. I run Dante attached to an assault squad with 2 meltaguns and an infernus on the sergeant and attacha priest. Nasty unit.

 

 

Sanguinary Guard are pretty good, especially in an army with Dante so they are now troops (and thus scoring). Keep them cheap (I just run the banner and 1 infernus pistol). Attach a pirest and they are really surviviable (make sure they over cover though). This unit on the charge will rip through most units that aren't T6+.

Do you favor using both Assault Squads & Sang Guard (assuming you're using Dante)? Or is one just flat better than the other for their points?

 

The best (in my opinion) Fast attack unit in the codex is Attack Bikes. I won't go anywhere without at least 4 with multimeltas.

I've over looked these completely until now. But if they've proven a must have then I will definitely take a hard look at them!

 

 

Thanks JamesI for all your great comments, feedback, & sage advice

[JamesI]

well, personally, my advice is atleast 5+ vehicles or none at all at 1750+ points. I run lists with 2 Vindicators, several rhinos/razorbacks and I run lists with no vehicles. In between doesn't work for me.

 

The FAQ is for the rulebook, codex>rulebook. Hits automatically means what it says. The FAQ really is to stop people from claiming they don't need to roll to hit with powers like smite.

 

Fear works fine against Marines. I used it at Adepticon against marines, shot up a unit killed several. Hit them with fear, they failed their leadership test and fell back. Then at the end of hte shooting phase they autofailed their next test as they hadn't rallied and ran off the board. Though fear is better against lower leadership opponents.

 

I personally favor both. Sang Guard are nastier in combat, Assault squads more survivable due to numbers. At 1850 I run 3 10 man assault squads and 1 Sang guard squad.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Ok, I got two-thirds of the way through your post and decided to just do this point-by-point:

 

Hey Bolter and Chainsword, I'm a new time BA player... I have to say I absolutely love them.

Welcome!

 

Some information: I usually play 1,750-2,500 point games. (more commonly 2,000+)

My playstyle seems to be DoA, with a maximum of 2-4 vehicles/dreads.

In my experience, 2-4 vehicles at 2,000+ points will get slagged almost immediately. Given the prevalence of missile-spam, Eldar lances and the now-ubiquitous melta, vehicles badly need redundancy. The exception to this is running larger numbers of either Stormravens or Land Raiders - they have good enough armour to ride a significant number of attacks.

 

Librarians: Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicle.

I use them for all around awesome, more specifically I use the for Blood Lance.

I absolutely love Blood Lance. I'm used to playing against Space Wolves, and JotWW always terrified me. When I first read the spell I thought 'Oh...a worse Jaws.'

After my last few games, I feel that is simply not true!

It's able to hit vehicles-- which is great and won't slaughter my own men. It's a psychic shooting attack...so I can DS in and use it.

 

When you use Librarians, what spell load out do you give them? I'm favoring BL + Wings/Sword...

Of course I'm also considering giving him Terminator Armor + a Storm Shield (and upgrading him to use 2 spells per turn if he needs to keep up with a Jumppack squad) Is this a foolish idea? I'm aware it's a major point investment. And *wince* it takes up an HQ slot.

 

So my questions: What spell load outs & Upgrades do you recommend? And do I have to roll to hit with Blood Lance? (It says it "automatically hits" but I've heard some dissent).

I keep my Librarians cheap. A jump pack is all you need to add to a jump infantry force. Epistolary isn't worth it for a psyker that can already cast two spells per turn, so long as one of your spells is Shield of Sanguinius.

 

You don't have to roll to hit with Blood Lance. As JamesI already asked: what else would "automatically hits" mean?

 

If you're planning to roll a Terminator Librarian with Epistolary upgrade and a storm shield, why aren't you rolling a Furioso Librarian?

 

Blood Lance is not the be-all-and-end-all. As JamesI has said, I would normally run with Shield of Sanguinius and either Unleash Rage or Fear of the Darkness. Blood Lance comes into the "useful, but there are better options" pile.

 

Dante: Support/Debuff.

I've used him every time thus-far. His ability to bestow penalties has been a great asset...but to be honest, other than the 100% accuracy for DS I'm not really sure where to put him. I basically have him for Libby delivery. Am I wasting his talents? ...More importantly am I wasting 200+ points? What do I do with this man?

I use him with a rather expensive unit of Sanguinary Guard, Librarian and Sanguinary Priest. Because of his accuracy, he's ideally-suited to using with squads equipped with infernus pistols. Because of his special rule, Sanguinary Guard are scoring units that can be chosen as Troops. Seems fairly straight-forward to me: Sanguinary Guard with a chapter banner and two infernus pistols make the ideal unit to put him in. This is personal preference, however.

 

The idea is that Dante and the Sanguinary Guard can slag a tank; the Librarian and the Sanguinary Priest provide a 5+ cover save and Feel No Pain to the unit in opponent's next round of shooting. Then you're in amongst his units causing absolute chaos.

 

OthersEveryone seems to really like using Mephiston--but him not being an IC and without Eternal warrior...or any Invul save...seems too risky for my blood.

 

Astorath....I just don't see a solid use for this guy. He's powerful enough... making them re-roll saves. But if I have Lemmy for my DC, why would I need him?

 

Sanguinor - too expensive, too easily shot down right? Has anyone a good experience using him over other HQs?

I am about to use Astorath in a list because I want lots of Death Company. Other than that, I've seen arguments made that he's largely interchangeable with Dante in a list, but I personally prefer Dante. As to the other characters, I've never tried them and I'm not hugely tempted to try them.

 

Dreadnought Librarian:Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicle Used one in my last game and it more than paid for itself. It even got immobilized, but (again) I had given it BL. So it was a constant threat and soaked up my opponent's resources. But at it's cost--fielding only 1 model, and taking up a competitive elite spot, do you guys find that these have been worth it?

 

The ability to move 12" (wings) Pop smoke, and then assault a vehicle seems real nifty.

Again, I haven't used Furioso Librarian Dreadnoughts, but I hear they're nasty to deal with. I don't generally use much magic and neither do people in my gaming group, so having the psychic hood isn't hugely important. I kinda feel if I was taking a Furioso Dreadnought I'd want it causing as much carnage as possible without worrying too much about psychic powers. The high WS and S make the Furioso Dreadnought a pretty severe wrecking ball if you want it to be. I'm not entirely convinced the points are worth it for the spells, given that you don't just pay the points - you also pay the cost of losing your weaponry.

 

Furioso: Anti-Infantry, Anti-Vehicle

Haven't tried one yet...But I'd be tempted to put on in a Drop Pod w/ a Locator beacon, as an alternative to using Dante` as a glorified one. I'd like to know how Magna Grapple has worked out for people, against MEQ armies with your standard Vindi/Rhino layouts, as well as other things such as Dark Eldar which can field lots of smaller vehicles.

 

Seems like a good replacement for the Librarian Dreadnought if I had to fight a good anti psychic army (Space Wolves, Grey Knights)

I'd say it's a good replacement for the Furioso Librarian Dreadnought regardless, but as I say, psykers don't really come into my meta game. (I wonder, actually, whether overloading on psychic powers might give me an advantage...? Hmmm....)

 

I don't think you need a beacon for Drop Pods. They're less risky to drop than most things, though they don't get the Descent of Angels special rule. I'm toying with the idea of Furioso Dreadnoughts armed with both a frag cannon and a heavy flamer for multi-template goodness and I can imagine one of those coming out of a Drop Pod laying a world of hurt on some hapless unit. I'm currently looking for the optimal way of getting several of them dropping at once to cause maximum carnage! Furioso Dreadnoughts generally, I say go for it. They're iconically Blood Angels and can find a place in most armies.

 

Sang Guard: Anti-Infantry

I see a lot of people using them, but I feel I can't quite justify their point cost for 1 wound models with no Inv. save...If someone could shed some light on their contribution it'd be appreciated.

As a rule, if you see a lot of people doing something there's usually a reason why. There's a fantastic write-up here. There's also a good discussion of them here. Nothing more for me to add: Snorri's write-up in the first link is absolutely superb.

 

Sternguard: Customizable/Support

They seem solid, but I'm not sure where to start with them. Tricking them out looks like it could get pricey and quick. With the cost of Dreadnaughts, and Librarians...I'm hesitant to pour points into them.

Pouring points into anything in a Space Marine army is generally a bad idea. Sternguard are nice because they don't rely on getting the assault, which means you can put them happily in Rhinos and the like - vehicles which don't have the Assault Vehicle special rule. Drop Pods come into this, too. I don't buy that they're particularly pricey, though: stick ten of them with combi-meltas in a Drop Pod and you're talking about 335 points. Combat squad them when they land and you can pretty much guarantee two dead tanks on the turn you arrive. You don't have to fire all of your combi-meltas at once, either - combat squad, shoot off two combi-meltas from each squad and you've got another two dead tanks the following turn.

 

They work best in a stationary gunline or in a mechanised force. Obviously they lack mobility so you struggle to use them particularly well alongside a mobile jump infantry list. Depending on your list, they're an absolute gem of a choice.

 

Priests: Support

I have used one in a squad with Dante and some Honor Guard...They're cheap enough to be good.

Honour Guard have their own Sanguinary Novitiate - you don't want to be putting a Sanguinary Priest in that squad. Alongside Dante and Sanguinary Guard, I support you. Sanguinary Priests are one of the absolute standards of list building for almost any of my Blood Angels army. Putting Feel No Pain and Furious Charge across my army is of paramount importance to me when I'm planning a list. Like you say, they're cheap enough. But I'd go a step further than "cheap enough to be good" - I'd say they're so cheap, you almost have to use them.

 

Death Company: Deathstar/Anti-Deathstar

I used to play Chaos when I first started, and these guys seem to be Plague Marines and Khornites rolled into one.

That being said, because of them:

---I feel I don't need the Sanguinary Priests, as everybody who's anybody already has FnP and furious Charge.

---I feel I don't need the Mastercrafted weapons of the Sang Guard because all of these boys are re-rolling everything (As long as Lemartes is with them. Which he is. Best friends forever.)

 

I've been loading 10 of them in a Storm Raven + Lemartes, and putting them in an ideal spot for Rage not to hurt me. (usually porting them around to a flank) about 4-3 of them have power weapons and 1-2 power fists.

I'd love to be convinced to not use them if there's good reason.

 

They also let me take a Dreadnought as a Troop choice.

 

What kind of DC load-outs do you guys use? Would you advise not using them at all? (I imagine they're controversial).

There is no reason. I'd aim to use fewer bodies but more power weapons, personally. I think the numbers work out better nearly every time - unless you're dealing with something which has literally no armour save. I'd be tempted, based on the squad you're listing, to change your numbers to eight Death Company with seven power weapons and one power fist, plus Lemartes.

 

I don't think they're controversial at all. They're the single best killing unit that we've got bar none (in close-combat, that is). Take them.

 

Vanguard Veterans: Anti-Vehicle

I love the Vanguard Veterans. I DS them with a Thunder Hammer or two in Combat Squads (I was reading rules, and though it seemed to be debated, it would appear I can use Combat Squads + Heroic Intervention) to blow up Vehicles. It's a bit pricey...but has yet to really let me down.

 

And with sufficient support after the tanks die, they're not just suicidal dead weight.

If I have the points I'll give one or two per squad a pair of lightning claws to help survivability after they get into CC.

 

These guys are my main reliable anti vehicle unit. They can be anywhere I need them to be, and hit that Vindi or Land Raider where it hurts--but perhaps there are better options for the points? (they get veeery expensive).

 

I haven't used other FA, the only other option (in my eyes) is the Baal Predator. Opinions against it vs Vanguard Vets? (I suppose there are Land Speeders too?)

Vanguard Veterans definitely have a place in a Blood Angels army. I like to drop a Vanguard Veteran Squad which is geared for close-combat, then place Dante with his Sanguinary Priest and Librarian so that they can get a shot at the rear of a tank while still providing the Furious Charge buff to the Vanguard Veteran Squad, who can then charge a squad. I don't like putting them up against tanks because it doesn't give you the safety of being in combat. I do, however, accept that they're a valuable option and they have options.

 

Stormraven: Support/Anti Anything

I had one of these with the DC in the last game. It was fantastic. I gave it side sponsons, and a TL Las...and Multimelta...but in retrospect I'm thinking Plasma is the way to go. I've heard people favor running multiples?

I like them in multiples. Anything that draws fire like the Stormravens deserves to be taken in multiples, in my opinion. Weapon load-out is personal preference, but I'd pop extra armour on there in favour of the side sponsons.

 

Vindicators: Suppression/Threat

Cheaper than a raven, and great for blowing holes in groups if my DSing units are failing to arrive in time. I've been taking 2 of these and 1 raven.

Never used one, but I've seen them going horribly wrong. I can imagine them going incredibly right, however. I just like Stormravens too much to look at other Heavy Support options.

 

Any comments, or opposing opinions would be welcome. I'm new to this army, so any tips/advice on who to use for what would be greatly appreciated!

 

Also, I started writing this at about 0900 this morning and it's currently 2130, so I have no idea if anything else has been said by other people. Hope this is helpful.

[Brother_Byhlli]

well, personally, my advice is atleast 5+ vehicles or none at all at 1750+ points. I run lists with 2 Vindicators, several rhinos/razorbacks and I run lists with no vehicles. In between doesn't work for me.

I don't entirely agree with this. I do agree with it when we're talking general vehicles, but I honestly think that three Stormravens/Land Raiders is enough. Heck, you struggle to fit more than that into a list this size. Although there are fewer of them, they're damnably hard to damage.

 

Fear works fine against Marines. I used it at Adepticon against marines, shot up a unit killed several. Hit them with fear, they failed their leadership test and fell back. Then at the end of hte shooting phase they autofailed their next test as they hadn't rallied and ran off the board. Though fear is better against lower leadership opponents.

Plainly, the lower the leadership, the more effective the power. However, oftentimes units with lower leadership have special rules that grant them Fearless - see Orks for an example. But even when you're talking relatively high leadership you're looking at good odds. Ld8, for example, will fail a test more often than not to Fear of the Darkness (failing 21/36 times). Ld9 is looking at failing 15/36 times, which is near enough a 50% chance. Definitely worthwhile considering.

 

I personally favor both. Sang Guard are nastier in combat, Assault squads more survivable due to numbers. At 1850 I run 3 10 man assault squads and 1 Sang guard squad.

I agree they should be mix'n'matched. I tend towards four or five squads split between them - generally either two of one and three of the other.

[JamesI]

Yes, I'll agree that if those vehicles are predominantly Raiders/RAvens, then less is ok.

[Darligulv]

Thanks for all the advice you guys! The article on the Sanguinary Guard was extremely educational all in all. Consider me 'swayed'.

 

 

 

So, taking all of your advice--and mixing it with some outlandish notions of my own; I played a list that was (roughly, I might be missing a few things) this earlier tonight against Dark Eldar:

The game was around 2580 points (odd but he liked his list so I accommodated):

HQ

Dante

Astorath

 

Elite

Sang Priest w/ JP

Furioso Dred w/ Magna Grapple

 

Troops

Sang Guard w/ 2 Infernus Pistols

10 DC + Lemartes x4 Pow Weps

10 DC x4 Pow Weps

DC Dread w/ Magna Grapple

 

Heavy

Storm Raven

Storm Raven

Fast Attack

1 Land speeder//Typhoon + Multimelta

1 Land Speeder//Typhoon + Multimelta

1 Land speeder//Typhoon + Multimelta

 

His list consisted of (as best I can remember)

 

 

HQ

Succubus//Agonizer

Archon//Shadowfield//Agonizer (and million other little things)

 

Elites:

9 Trueborn x4 Blasters + Splinter Cannon

9 Trueborn x4 Blasters + Splinter Cannon

 

Troops:

Wyches decked out with all kinds of stuff...(thousands of them).

Fast attack

x2 full squads of Scourges...with a bunch of gear.

 

Heavy

x3 Ravagers

 

 

And everything was in a raider with a flicker field and/or Nightshield.

 

----

 

To summarize: He conceded by turn 4. I DeepStriked in, blew up all of his toys. Lost in total 2 models and a Plasma Cannon.

 

 

Details as follows (for those interested):

My Turn 1: Nothing. Everything will be Deep Striking.

 

Opponent Turn 1: He moves flat-out with everything getting the 4+ Cover save.

 

My Turn 2: everything came in, save 1 Land Speeder.

Shooting phase...

I shoot all of my bullets, disembarking with the Dreadnoughts but leaving the DC's and their leaders (Lemmy + Astorath) inside.

 

-Each Storm Raven took out 2 vehicles, starting with the ravagers.

 

-Dante and his Sang Guard took out his Succubus' transport--Who then had to take a morale check, and were pinned.

 

-The Landspeeders and Dreads cleaned up what remained of the Transports.

With all but a single Dark Lance remaining and all but two of his units exposed on the field...I end my turn

(He rolled horrifically on his cover saves, and the few he made weren't enough.)

 

 

His 3rd turn:

He fires on Dante's squad with Blasters and Splinter Weapons from the Scourges...Killing 2 Sang Guard

He assaults the Dreads with Wyches + Haywire Grenades... doing nothing. (I was in a state of stark disbelief at this point)

 

He destroys 1 Plasma Cannon of a Storm Raven and Stuns the other.

 

My turn 4:

I disembark the DC's from their birds.

I fire again, dropping his numbers... then prepare to assault

 

After seeing the field however--he concedes.

 

It was an astoundingly one sided game--more through the merits of his bad luck than any action on my part. BUT I had great fun with the list.

...I suspect, had I scattered more on the DS, or things came in piecemeal the game would have been much more weighted in his favor.

 

What I'm taking away from this is that while DoA reduces risk...it can still be dangerous. If I had scattered too far with my Storm Ravens and gotten a mishap --that alone would have radically changed this game. (They do indeed roll on the mishap table yes?)

If only 1/2 my army came in 2nd turn, I wouldn't have been able to do as much damage as I needed to keep him from horrific Dark Lance retribution

 

I went with the Landspeeders over Bikes for the Typhoon. The versatility appealed to me, and the ability to Deepstrike was essential to the concept.

 

Next game I'll try out with more men on the field...Perhaps a bike charge in the beginning.

 

Thank you all very much--I'll be around asking questions, and soaking up what I can.

Sweet Emperor, but Blood Angels are fun.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Thanks for all the advice you guys! The article on the Sanguinary Guard was extremely educational all in all. Consider me 'swayed'.

 

 

 

So, taking all of your advice--and mixing it with some outlandish notions of my own; I played a list that was (roughly, I might be missing a few things) this earlier tonight against Dark Eldar:

The game was around 2580 points (odd but he liked his list so I accommodated):

HQ

Dante

Astorath

 

Elite

Sang Priest w/ JP

Furioso Dred w/ Magna Grapple

 

Troops

Sang Guard w/ 2 Infernus Pistols

10 DC + Lemartes x4 Pow Weps

10 DC x4 Pow Weps

DC Dread w/ Magna Grapple

 

Heavy

Storm Raven

Storm Raven

Fast Attack

1 Land speeder//Typhoon + Multimelta

1 Land Speeder//Typhoon + Multimelta

1 Land speeder//Typhoon + Multimelta

 

His list consisted of (as best I can remember)

 

 

HQ

Succubus//Agonizer

Archon//Shadowfield//Agonizer (and million other little things)

 

Elites:

9 Trueborn x4 Blasters + Splinter Cannon

9 Trueborn x4 Blasters + Splinter Cannon

 

Troops:

Wyches decked out with all kinds of stuff...(thousands of them).

Fast attack

x2 full squads of Scourges...with a bunch of gear.

 

Heavy

x3 Ravagers

 

 

And everything was in a raider with a flicker field and/or Nightshield.

 

----

 

To summarize: He conceded by turn 4. I DeepStriked in, blew up all of his toys. Lost in total 2 models and a Plasma Cannon.

 

 

Details as follows (for those interested):

My Turn 1: Nothing. Everything will be Deep Striking.

 

Opponent Turn 1: He moves flat-out with everything getting the 4+ Cover save.

 

My Turn 2: everything came in, save 1 Land Speeder.

Shooting phase...

I shoot all of my bullets, disembarking with the Dreadnoughts but leaving the DC's and their leaders (Lemmy + Astorath) inside.

 

-Each Storm Raven took out 2 vehicles, starting with the ravagers.

 

-Dante and his Sang Guard took out his Succubus' transport--Who then had to take a morale check, and were pinned.

 

-The Landspeeders and Dreads cleaned up what remained of the Transports.

With all but a single Dark Lance remaining and all but two of his units exposed on the field...I end my turn

(He rolled horrifically on his cover saves, and the few he made weren't enough.)

 

 

His 3rd turn:

He fires on Dante's squad with Blasters and Splinter Weapons from the Scourges...Killing 2 Sang Guard

He assaults the Dreads with Wyches + Haywire Grenades... doing nothing. (I was in a state of stark disbelief at this point)

 

He destroys 1 Plasma Cannon of a Storm Raven and Stuns the other.

 

My turn 4:

I disembark the DC's from their birds.

I fire again, dropping his numbers... then prepare to assault

 

After seeing the field however--he concedes.

 

It was an astoundingly one sided game--more through the merits of his bad luck than any action on my part. BUT I had great fun with the list.

...I suspect, had I scattered more on the DS, or things came in piecemeal the game would have been much more weighted in his favor.

 

What I'm taking away from this is that while DoA reduces risk...it can still be dangerous. If I had scattered too far with my Storm Ravens and gotten a mishap --that alone would have radically changed this game. (They do indeed roll on the mishap table yes?)

If only 1/2 my army came in 2nd turn, I wouldn't have been able to do as much damage as I needed to keep him from horrific Dark Lance retribution

 

I went with the Landspeeders over Bikes for the Typhoon. The versatility appealed to me, and the ability to Deepstrike was essential to the concept.

 

Next game I'll try out with more men on the field...Perhaps a bike charge in the beginning.

 

Thank you all very much--I'll be around asking questions, and soaking up what I can.

Sweet Emperor, but Blood Angels are fun.

 

Congratulations on your victory, brother! I have a few things I want to point out which aren't clear to me in your battle report - I don't know if you followed all the rules properly. If you did, then sorry for picking you up on them. If you didn't, then keep these in mind for your next battle!

 

• Stormravens do not benefit from Descent of Angels. The only thing in your list which does is the Sanguinary Guard with Dante and, due to his non-scattering, it has less of an effect on them. Everything else has a single 50/50 chance of arriving on turn two and scatters a full 2D6". Descent of Angels only affects units equipped with jump packs - that does not include vehicles whose cargo is equipped with jump packs.
  
• Land Speeders, again, do not benefit from Descent of Angels. They do not reroll failed deep strike rolls and they scatter 2D6".
  
• Stormravens can only fire one weapon on the turn they deep strik, so you've destroyed two more targets than you can even actually aim at.
  
• Land Speeders will only be able to fire one weapon on the turn they deep strike.
  

This isn't an attempt to detract from your victory, however. Just wanting to make sure you're using the rules properly.

 

:huh:

[sp4rky]

Stormravens can only fire one weapon on the turn they deep strik, so you've destroyed two more targets than you can even actually aim at.

But they have Machine Spirit so they can fire 1 extra weapon as well.

 

 

Edited because I fail at hand typing quote tags

[Darligulv]

Congratulations on your victory, brother! I have a few things I want to point out which aren't clear to me in your battle report - I don't know if you followed all the rules properly. If you did, then sorry for picking you up on them. If you didn't, then keep these in mind for your next battle!

 

• Stormravens do not benefit from Descent of Angels. The only thing in your list which does is the Sanguinary Guard with Dante and, due to his non-scattering, it has less of an effect on them. Everything else has a single 50/50 chance of arriving on turn two and scatters a full 2D6". Descent of Angels only affects units equipped with jump packs - that does not include vehicles whose cargo is equipped with jump packs.
  
• Land Speeders, again, do not benefit from Descent of Angels. They do not reroll failed deep strike rolls and they scatter 2D6".
  
• Stormravens can only fire one weapon on the turn they deep strik, so you've destroyed two more targets than you can even actually aim at.
  
• Land Speeders will only be able to fire one weapon on the turn they deep strike.
  

This isn't an attempt to detract from your victory, however. Just wanting to make sure you're using the rules properly.

 

;)

 

Ahaha, thank you so much!

 

I completely over looked vehicles not having DoA. Reassesment is in order, I'll definitely have to come with a different ballgame next time. (Games are less one-sided/broken when you follow the rules, so I hear. =P )

 

The lack of DoA very likely could have changed things radically. IIRC that would have put me down 1 landspeeder and 1 Storm Raven. Not to mention the scattering.

 

And I believe power of the Machine Spirit allows me to always fire one extra? (and at a different target at that? Yes?)

[JamesI]

The Stormraven can fire 1 gun when it lands, and POTMS can fire another at a different target (or the same target if you want)

[Brother_Byhlli]

Stormravens can only fire one weapon on the turn they deep strik, so you've destroyed two more targets than you can even actually aim at.

But they have Machine Spirit so they can fire 1 extra weapon as well.

 

 

Edited because I fail at hand typing quote tags

 

I forgot that Stormravens are fast, my mistake. Thanks for picking me up on that.

 

However, my understanding of dice suggests that four shots destroying four different vehicles is pretty frakkin' unlikely, so the point that you cannot fire all of your weapons remains.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Ahaha, thank you so much!

 

I completely over looked vehicles not having DoA. Reassesment is in order, I'll definitely have to come with a different ballgame next time. (Games are less one-sided/broken when you follow the rules, so I hear. =P )

 

;)

 

The lack of DoA very likely could have changed things radically. IIRC that would have put me down 1 landspeeder and 1 Storm Raven. Not to mention the scattering.

 

It's common for people to misread the Descent of Angels special rule. But hey, no harm to anything but xenos, no foul, right? :o

 

And I believe power of the Machine Spirit allows me to always fire one extra? (and at a different target at that? Yes?)

 

Yes. I'd forgotten that Stormravens are Fast vehicles, which allows them to fire one weapon when they move at cruising speed.

 

Deep striking vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed, which doesn't allow you to fire any weapons. However, the Stormraven is a Fast vehicle, so you may fire one weapon after moving at cruising speed. Additionally, because of the Power of the Machine Spirit special rule, you can fire one additional weapon, which takes your total to two. Power of the Machine Spirit also allows you to target a separate target with up to one of your weapons, which means you can deep strike, target unit "a" with a lascannon and then target unit "b" with a multi-melta.

 

I made a mistake in forgetting that Stormravens are Fast.

 

:)

[sp4rky]

However, my understanding of dice...

Ok, I'll give you that one :P

 

 

To help get around scattering when deep striking, I deploy a Raven (with Locator Beacon) on the table and turbo-boost it on turn 1 into a convenient position then deep strike things in within 6" to prevent scattering. It is very open to failure - all the other guy has to do is stop the Raven moving which happens on 4 out of 6 penetrating hits and 2 out of 6 glancing hits - or maybe there is no such "convenient position" on the table, but it has worked for me in the past.

Or infiltrate some scouts somewhere and give Sarge a beacon of his own :blink:

[Darligulv]

To help get around scattering when deep striking, I deploy a Raven (with Locator Beacon) on the table and turbo-boost it on turn 1 into a convenient position then deep strike things in within 6" to prevent scattering. It is very open to failure - all the other guy has to do is stop the Raven moving which happens on 4 out of 6 penetrating hits and 2 out of 6 glancing hits - or maybe there is no such "convenient position" on the table, but it has worked for me in the past.

Or infiltrate some scouts somewhere and give Sarge a beacon of his own :)

 

When it comes to scouts--have you had much success in actually using them for anything but locator beacons? They seem so...frail.

[Brother_Byhlli]

To help get around scattering when deep striking, I deploy a Raven (with Locator Beacon) on the table and turbo-boost it on turn 1 into a convenient position then deep strike things in within 6" to prevent scattering. It is very open to failure - all the other guy has to do is stop the Raven moving which happens on 4 out of 6 penetrating hits and 2 out of 6 glancing hits - or maybe there is no such "convenient position" on the table, but it has worked for me in the past.

Or infiltrate some scouts somewhere and give Sarge a beacon of his own :)

 

When it comes to scouts--have you had much success in actually using them for anything but locator beacons? They seem so...frail.

 

I have a friend who runs a Scout and Sternguard army with Pedro Kantor. Scout Bikes, two Land Speeder Storms, three or four Scout Squads and a ton of Sternguard in Drop Pods. I've seen him absolutely destroy someone's entire starting force in turn one. (By "starting force", I mean the force that started on the table and wasn't held in reserve.) As each bit of the army came on, piece-by-piece, from his opponent's table edge, he wiped it out. Completely.

 

So, yeah. Scouts can be nasty.

 

:woot: