Best assassins to use?

[CuddlesHeretics]

I want to use Eversor and Vindicare, for a mix.

 

 

Any ideas? This is for a mainly combat orientated force, but with a fair bit of range power (it being grey knights)

[Crynn]

Death Cult...

 

Regards,

Crynn

[thade]

You're going to get a glut of people telling you that the Vindicare is all that's worthwhile. Before they get here, let me try to make a quick case for each of them. ;)

 

Vindicare can (and very likely will) remove five or six of your enemy's models from the table over the course of the game. He gets one very awesome shot each turn and has very high odds of hitting and killing any infantry model or popping any tank. He's very good at popping Land Raiders; like, extremely good. He can also remove invulnerable saves from those pesky super-powered ICs you love to hate. If he gets assaulted or if the enemy can get close enough to him, his value drops rapidly...so you need to keep them off him (or hope they try to ignore him yet still stay in range...which happens from time to time).

 

Eversor is a beast. He's vicious. He's the Jet Li/Jason Stamos/Snake Eyes of your army, riding alone in his personal Storm Raven, waiting to be put close enough to charge in and eat entire infantry units on his own. The issue with him is that he has no deployment options (no Infiltrate or Deep Strike) and so he's foot-slogging it. Exceptional home base defense or - if you do actually buy him a transport or have him hijack a Razorback - you can shuttle him forward field.

 

Callidus arrives via DS sans scatter, can land wounds as she does so on an enemy unit - even if they're in combat - right as she deploys. She then has a template attack she can use during Shooting (of course she can't use this against an engaged enemy unit). She cannot charge, meaning she's no longer the drop-in-deep-and-eat-something model; she now drops in and offers support to one of your units that's mired, or presents your opponent with a choice: kill the Callidus and allow the scoring unit (that was previously alone) to endure and kill you OR kill the scoring unit and fall to the Callidus when she can charge next turn.

 

Culexus is a weird one; every Grey Knight or Psyker Henchmen unit in range increases his number of shots by one and your opponent needs to make a Ld check to even shoot at him. His range is 12" but he can really light up any unit with a Psyker in it he wants to shoot at. He'll probably make Eldar players sweat until they understand his range is 12". Of all the assassins, this is the one even I have yet to figure out how to utilize.

 

Bottom-line: if you think those two sound like fun, rock out, man. It's early in the codex's life yet. Let us know how they work out for you. :P

[Crynn]

You're going to get a glut of people telling you that the Vindicare is all that's worthwhile. Before they get here, let me try to make a quick case for each of them. ;)

 

Culexus is a weird one; every Grey Knight or Psyker Henchmen unit in range increases his number of shots by one and your opponent needs to make a Ld check to even shoot at him. His range is 12" but he can really light up any unit with a Psyker in it he wants to shoot at. He'll probably make Eldar players sweat until they understand his range is 12". Of all the assassins, this is the one even I have yet to figure out how to utilize.

 

Bottom-line: if you think those two sound like fun, rock out, man. It's early in the codex's life yet. Let us know how they work out for you. :P

 

Just for gags I used him in a coteaz librarian list with a henchmen psycher in each unit, there were gks around with razorbacks as well, many. The idea was the lib and dreads, strikes DCA henchmen all just did there normal thing and the culexus just hid behind vehicles or in a corner or even in terrain, half the time people would just forget about him. As the army was predominantly ranged, units would eventually try to get close and when they did, BAM the lib would summon the assassin using a mystic for no scatter and bastard would lay down up to 21 str 5 ap 2 shots that hit on 2+ then a 4+. He wiped a 10 man terminator squads, he was funny as hell. he would do this while just poking around from a vehicle after being summoned then units would try and shoot him, half of the time failing if they could even see him. He is quite a lot of fun but he is better used in a mech list where he has places to hide and all the mech adds to his number of shots.

 

Unfortunately as thade said most people will come ona nd talk about the vindicare only and I am one of them. Unfortunately he is clearly the best on DCA assassin as I don't thing buying a 205 point transport for an eversor a good idea at all, as a home base defender he works ok if you have a vehicle to hide him behind. Callidus si jsut ok not bad just not great against a lot of opponents.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[TheMouth]

after playing a few games against vinds....i usually kill them on turn 1-2. Really surprised they dont live as long.

[Something Wycked]

after playing a few games against vinds....i usually kill them on turn 1-2. Really surprised they dont live as long.

Did you win those games? How much firepower did you have to devote to killing those Vindicares that could have been killing other things?

 

I'm not trying to sound hostile ;) its just that there's often more to a story than "He died and didn't do anything." Granted, my experience with the Vindicare is less than stellar too. The first time I fielded him it was against Necrons and a full Destroyer unit killed him with the first shots fired in the game :devil:

 

But yeah. What thade said. :P

[thade]

My one encounter with a Vindicare I "kited" him with a Land Raider. I did better at range estimates than my opponent, so I kept getting "closer" and knowing full well I had yet an inch or two to spare as I did so. Meanwhile, I advanced tacticals around on a flank that managed to break through and contest the objective he, Crowe, and some Purifiers were sitting on.

 

Last Sunday I saw a Sisters of Battle player use the old-style Callidus to introduce the Vindicare to a world of pain; it then occurred to me that the new style Callidus could ruin his day too, as he's very often deployed all alone somewhere...and then *poof* there she is. And he's like ":evil:?!"

 

And she's like "I was masquerading as part of your unit, lol."

 

And he rebuttles "What? I'm a single-model unit; I'm always a single model unit. I can never have anyone other than me in this unit. What were you masquerading as, my iPod?"

 

And she says "TL;DR" and does her on-deployment wounds to him; he dies. "You know," she says, "I know how that single-model unit thing goes. I get lonely too."

 

"Yea," says Crowe. "It sucks."

 

"Where the heck did you come from?!"

 

"Nobody ever notices me," says Crowe, who then charges the Callidus.

 

True story.

[Something Wycked]

True story.

:devil:

 

You, sir, are an absolute gem.

[Crynn]

My one encounter with a Vindicare I "kited" him with a Land Raider. I did better at range estimates than my opponent, so I kept getting "closer" and knowing full well I had yet an inch or two to spare as I did so. Meanwhile, I advanced tacticals around on a flank that managed to break through and contest the objective he, Crowe, and some Purifiers were sitting on.

 

Last Sunday I saw a Sisters of Battle player use the old-style Callidus to introduce the Vindicare to a world of pain; it then occurred to me that the new style Callidus could ruin his day too, as he's very often deployed all alone somewhere...and then *poof* there she is. And he's like ":evil:?!"

 

And she's like "I was masquerading as part of your unit, lol."

 

And he rebuttles "What? I'm a single-model unit; I'm always a single model unit. I can never have anyone other than me in this unit. What were you masquerading as, my iPod?"

 

And she says "TL;DR" and does her on-deployment wounds to him; he dies. "You know," she says, "I know how that single-model unit thing goes. I get lonely too."

 

"Yea," says Crowe. "It sucks."

 

"Where the heck did you come from?!"

 

"Nobody ever notices me," says Crowe, who then charges the Callidus.

 

True story.

 

 

Brilliant.

 

I propose this thread gets perminatnly highjacked and turned into 'Thades 40k bed time stories'

 

I want the audio book.

[Godhead]

My one encounter with a Vindicare I "kited" him with a Land Raider. I did better at range estimates than my opponent, so I kept getting "closer" and knowing full well I had yet an inch or two to spare as I did so. Meanwhile, I advanced tacticals around on a flank that managed to break through and contest the objective he, Crowe, and some Purifiers were sitting on.

 

Last Sunday I saw a Sisters of Battle player use the old-style Callidus to introduce the Vindicare to a world of pain; it then occurred to me that the new style Callidus could ruin his day too, as he's very often deployed all alone somewhere...and then *poof* there she is. And he's like ":(?!"

 

And she's like "I was masquerading as part of your unit, lol."

 

And he rebuttles "What? I'm a single-model unit; I'm always a single model unit. I can never have anyone other than me in this unit. What were you masquerading as, my iPod?"

 

And she says "TL;DR" and does her on-deployment wounds to him; he dies. "You know," she says, "I know how that single-model unit thing goes. I get lonely too."

 

"Yea," says Crowe. "It sucks."

 

"Where the heck did you come from?!"

 

"Nobody ever notices me," says Crowe, who then charges the Callidus.

 

True story.

 

ROFL. That made me laugh really hard.

[Gentlemanloser]

Awesome! :P

 

 

As for the Assassin, you have to ask yourself, why do you want one?

 

What can the assassin bring to your list that you're not getting elsewhere?

 

That's why the Vindicare shines, and the other really, don't.

 

Do you want more CC attacks that the GK's can't cover? Why? Just use more GK. Or DCA. Do you really need the Callies deployment? Why? Can't you Scout some GKs or DS some? Do you really need the, well, whatever the Cullexes brings. Do you? Do you need the long range shooting / armour popping the Vindicare brings? Or is that covered by Dreads and Stormravens.

 

Why are you using the Assassins?

[CuddlesHeretics]

Much needed variation to the Grey Knights force :)

 

Actually I have my own codex chapter, so I can use them for both forces, I just think Eversor and Vindicare are the best, because they offer completely different ways of playing

[nurglez]

I have used both of those, though only a few times each. The vindicare is very nice, but with only 1 shot, its like having a non scoring tactical squad with 1 lascannon. he either hits and destroys what he shoots, or doesn't. dawn of war is annoying as you have to waste a turn moving him on.

 

The eversor felt like a let down when I used him. compared to what I remembered him doing (back in codex assassin's and such) he feels rubbish. He doesn't explode when he dies anymore and can't infiltrate or scout or anything (unless you use GS on him).

 

I have toyed with the idea of using only assassin's in apocalypse, 3000 point's of assassin's would be rather interesting heh.

[CuddlesHeretics]

You could recreate the space marines storming the assassin's temple, finding the traitor high lord.

 

100 eversor stood guard outside, only 1 space marine survived.

[Gentlemanloser]

Much needed variation to the Grey Knights force

 

What variation? :)

 

CC strength? Well you have Pallies (and at a push Termies) and Purifiers for that.

 

Deployment shenanigans? Mordrak, who also has PC.

 

Long Range? Psybolt Autocannon Dreads.

 

Anti-psycher stuff? PH, Aegis and Reinforced Aegis.

 

 

The Vindicare has some awesome utlity that can't be replicated (removal of I saves, Turbo Penetrator), which is why he's generally seen as the better choice. But why use an Eversor, when you can outshine him in CC with an equal number of DCA, let alone Grey Knights. B)

[XaClocKWorKoX]

if he pops that IC character with that crappy invul on him that everyone hates. hes already made his points up when you start shooting at him.

 

normally just to be jerky sometimes i have a techmarine hiding with him. oh damn my assassin has a 2+ up on his cover save now.

 

things he not fun against but still silly is anything nid. playing a necron player is probably the only time i love fielding him cause they are like

 

BLARG BLARG BLARG living metal BLARHAB

 

4 d 6 armor pen....... *pop*

 

necorn player blinks.......

 

i smile.

 

a lone indian in the corner roles a tear.

 

CREDITS

[thade]

4 d 6 armor pen....... *pop*

 

necorn player blinks.......

Pretty sure you only get 1d6 to pen the Monolith, even with Turbo Pen ammo. The Living Armor rule (rough around the edges as any 3rd Ed codex can be) is pretty clear that you never get "extra dice to pen"...where "extra dice" is anything beyond the core rulebook 1d6. A discussion for another thread though. I'll post this over in the OR so you can hop over there to trounce on it. <3 Let's not derail this.

 

See OR discussion here.

 

Back OT, the Rule of Cool is a perfectly acceptable reason to field a temple assassin. I plan to have one of each in my kit for lolz. I may actually purchase a Storm Raven which I will use ONLY to transport an Eversor. Like I said: Jet Li/Jason Stamos/Snake Eyes.

[TheDarkOne]

Inspired by Thade:

 

Vindicare infiltrated into cover... aims his Massive rifle at an incomming Black Templar Alndraider, takes a breath...

 

All of a sudden the Landraider busts into a smoky haze, limiting visibility and shrouding it from all but the most sensative of eyes... unfortunately there are no senses more sensative than those posessed by the emperor's finest snipers...

 

Squeezing the trigger, a turbo penetrator round is unleashed, hammering into the vital workings of the landraider, through its smoke screen, causing a massive explosion, left much startled in the crater, a squad of lightning claw terminators, a chaplin and the Emperor's Champion are all like ";) mate? That was smoke!"

 

In a hail of fire 2 of the lightninc claw terminators fall, the unnoticed squad of paladins dispense psycannon death.

 

Emperor's Champion is like "I'm a get you!" and comes running like a mania at the Vindicare in the building. He climbs up to the floor with the assassin and is all like "OMG I'm Blind!" as a grenade goes off.

 

The assassin wastes no time and punches the Champion right in the nuts, 3 times, severely injuring the Space marine.

 

The Champion proceeds to slash randomly with his relic blade but the Assassin dodges all his attempts.

 

They dance around like this for a couple more minutes before the Assassin kicks the Champion's head clean off.

 

True Story - Ard Boyz round 1 Game 1.

 

But in all reality, I've used the Vindicare in 6 games to this point, and blowing up that landraider and killing the emperor's champion is by far the most he's done. The other effects he's had were immobilizing a Vendetta and stunning a Vindicator. That is all, across 6 games, and he's died only 3 times. Not so impressed, but when he does work, he's awesome.

[CuddlesHeretics]

What are death cult assassins like? ;)

[Something Wycked]

What are death cult assassins like? :blink:

Some of the best close combat troops in the entire game. A full squad of 12 of them can put a massive dent in what is regarded as the hardest to kill unit in the game, Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. Any lesser unit stands a very good chance of just being wiped off the board.

 

The only things that can really stand against them are Eldar Howling Banshees since they will go first, regardless of what Initiative score you can bump the DCA's up to.

 

Other than that, the assault phase is the DCA's oyster- as long as you keep them protected in the enemy shooting phase, since they'll fall like wheat to basic ranged weapons from most armies.

[CuddlesHeretics]

They're the only assassins you can get a squad of then..?

 

They even better than Eversor?

[Something Wycked]

Yes, the Temple assassins are each unique so you can only take one of each kind per army list, but the DCA's are taken as an Inquisitor's retinue so you can mix and match them with the other henchmen in groups of up to 12.

[CuddlesHeretics]

I doubt I'm gonna use an inquisitor...

 

Thanks anyway :nuke:

[Something Wycked]

Stick an Inquisitor in Power or Terminator armor and he uses the model for a Marine so you won't need to buy any special models to represent him- he can even be painted up to look just like the rest of your Grey Knight force, if you'd like :) He then allows you to take a unit of Henchmen who are the most diverse and unique entry in the entire codex, and some parts of it are very powerful, though some parts of the unit entry may require some creative purchasing/modeling to put on the table. This unit also does not occupy a slot on the Force Organization Chart allowing you to maximize your other Elites slots.

 

I was in the same boat as you are, not really interested in Inquisitors. Then I started to think of all the potential they open up in a Grey Knights list! Inquisitors are very inexpensive HQ choices with a very wide array of options, so I suggest you don't dismiss them out of hand. Wait until you've purchased and read through the codex at least :D

[nurglez]

Indeed, a special inquisitor called Coteaz costs as much as the cheapest possible grey knight marine HQ, and provides a few interesting abilities. I would suggest waiting and reading the codex, there are a lot of viable builds for grey knights :)