Units beginning in a non-dedicated transport.

[Quannum]

Hi all,

 

I'm looking at combinations for my Imperial Fist army list and wanted to check that the following idea is legal with the units below. I can't find any conclusive wording in the BRB. The idea here is based on a desire to have two Land Raiders each loaded with 5 assault terminators and a character. :

 

HQ: Lysander

 

HQ: Librarian in Terminator Armour

 

ELITES: 10 Assault Terminators w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield

DEDICATED TRANSPORT: Land Raider

 

HEAVY: Land Raider

 

 

My question is:

 

Prior to deployment, can I declare that I am going to use the Combat Squads special rule to split my Terminator Assault squad into two units of 5 men, have the HQ characters join a unit each, then mount the subsequent 6-man units in each of the Land Raiders, even though one isn't a dedicated transport? In essence, can I begin the game with the two Land Raiders fully loaded, each with a Character and 5 Terminators?

 

I ask because I don't want the annoyance of having to "embark" at the beginning of my first turn - I'd rather have them safely tucked away in their Land Raiders...!

 

Cheers,

 

Q

[thade]

Cleanest and easiest way to do this - completely dispute free - is to take your terminators as two seperate five-model Elite choices. One gets a Dedicated LR, the other one hops in the Heavy. Nice and easy. :lol:

 

That said, pretty sure if both LRs are Heavy Choices - or even if one of them is Dedicated - you can combat squad and deploy into each one when you Deploy them (pre Turn 1). You cannot do this from Reserves (that was FAQ'd), nor can one of the Squads remain off the board in Reserves while the other does not.

[Quannum]

Cleanest and easiest way to do this - completely dispute free - is to take your terminators as two seperate five-model Elite choices. One gets a Dedicated LR, the other one hops in the Heavy. Nice and easy. :P

 

 

Ah that's my problem you see - the other two elite slots are taken up with Dreadnoughts. :lol:

 

I guess the point of issue here is whether a unit that has been bought a dedicated transport can combat squad and deploy in seperate, non-dedicated transport.

 

Q

 

P.S. The dedicated LR doesn't, IIRC, occupy a FOC slot.

[thade]

Yea, I get that. I don't see an issue with it, provided you deploy both LRs and the squad at the same time.

[Quannum]

Yea, I get that. I don't see an issue with it, provided you deploy both LRs and the squad at the same time.

 

Cool, thanks thade.

 

Q

[thade]

Yea, I get that. I don't see an issue with it, provided you deploy both LRs and the squad at the same time.

 

Cool, thanks thade.

 

Q

You're welcome, man. I've been wrong before though, so keep an eye on this thread, just in case.

[timmytool]

sounds fine, only problem is if you want to reserve them and/or the Dawn of war scenario.

 

in DOW just move the tanks 6" when rolling in and then move the termis in and embark them.

[Quannum]

sounds fine, only problem is if you want to reserve them and/or the Dawn of war scenario.

 

in DOW just move the tanks 6" when rolling in and then move the termis in and embark them.

 

Why is it a problem in these two examples?

 

Q

[SeattleDV8]

sounds fine, only problem is if you want to reserve them and/or the Dawn of war scenario.

 

in DOW just move the tanks 6" when rolling in and then move the termis in and embark them.

 

Why is it a problem in these two examples?

In DOW you may only deploy one HQ and 2 troops.

The termies in your example are Elites (as is the dedicated transport) and the other Land Raider is a heavy choice.

None of these can be deployed at the start of the game.

 

Units placed in reverves are not deployed and as such cannot be split into Combat Squads at that point..

Once the termies came in from reserves you could combat squad them but if you embarked them in the dedicated transport the entire squad would be embarked and could not combat squad, the drop pod being the only exception.

[Quannum]

++EDIT++

 

I'm convinced!

[Quannum]

++EDIT++

 

Double-post.

[thade]

yea, DOW gets a bit dodgy...the squad can Combat Squad when they Deploy on your first turn, but they can't thus embark into separate transports (per that recent FAQ). However, since the Raiders can only move in 6" (putting them on your table edge) embarking the terminator combat squads the old-fashioned way becomes trivial, so it's a non-issue. :yes:

[timmytool]

did you read BRB p94 "Preparing reserves"

"When deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve."

 

and same page "Rolling for reserves" second paragraph

"Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one unit of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later."

 

these quotes stop the reserve deployment of a combat sq into 2 transports when combined with your C:SM p51 and BRB p94 quotes.

 

EDIT:

BTW if you want to retract your comments could you leave the comment(s) and just cross out all the text then add the edit:why at the end.

 

to cross out the text: edit it, select the text, bold it, change the added bold tags "b" 's to "s" 's

[thade]

timmy, are you talkin to me? If so, to quote the vernacular: "You best be steppin' back, foo!" (not a typo)

 

I wasn't talking about Reserves in my most recent post. In fact, the word "Reserves" is no where IN that post. In Dawn of War deployment, you deploy up to one HQ and two Troop Units...then on your first turn, anything you didn't explicitly Reserve comes into play simultaneously...in the order you choose.

 

Here is the order I choose:

• Land Raider One moves onto the table.
  
• Land Raider Two moves onto the table.
  
• I break the 10-man Terminator unit into combat squads, move them onto the table, then embark them into LRs One and Two respectively.
  
• I profit immensely at your awe and applause.
  

EDIT: If you want to redact anything you said, feel free to use those strike-out annotations you so kindly demonstrated.

 

I should also mention that if perchance the two LRs and the terminators all come in via Reserves later on the same turn that you could still do precisely what I outlined there.

[timmytool]

timmy, are you talkin to me? If so, to quote the vernacular: "You best be steppin' back, foo!" (not a typo)

 

I wasn't talking about Reserves in my most recent post. In fact, the word "Reserves" is no where IN that post. In Dawn of War deployment, you deploy up to one HQ and two Troop Units...then on your first turn, anything you didn't explicitly Reserve comes into play simultaneously...in the order you choose.

 

Here is the order I choose:

• Land Raider One moves onto the table.
  
• Land Raider Two moves onto the table.
  
• I break the 10-man Terminator unit into combat squads, move them onto the table, then embark them into LRs One and Two respectively.
  
• I profit immensely at your awe and applause.
  

EDIT: If you want to redact anything you said, feel free to use those strike-out annotations you so kindly demonstrated.

 

I should also mention that if perchance the two LRs and the terminators all come in via Reserves later on the same turn that you could still do precisely what I outlined there.

 

na thade it was directed to Quannum, my last post was written in response to his which is now reduced to a "++EDIT++ I'm convinced!""

 

btw I agree with your 4 point plan it matches the one I was trying to elude too with my first post in this topic "in DOW just move the tanks 6" when rolling in and then move the termis in and embark them."

[thade]

na thade it was directed to Quannum, my last post was written in response to his which is now reduced to a "++EDIT++ I'm convinced!""

 

btw I agree with your 4 point plan it matches the one I was trying to elude too with my first post in this topic "in DOW just move the tanks 6" when rolling in and then move the termis in and embark them."

*High-five!*

[Quannum]

Hehe thanks timmy and thade.

 

I'll just do that on the Dawn of War missions - can I do the same with my Independent Characters to join the Terminator squads now in the two Land Raiders?

 

Q

[thade]

Can I do the same with my Independent Characters to join the Terminator squads now in the two Land Raiders?

Sure can. They can move on by themselves and embark along side each squad in their respective land raiders..

[sp4rky]

May I just get a little clarification on this non-dedicated transport thing...

 

Unit A wishes to be transported by Heavy Support transport (not dedicated). Can they start the game already embarked? Can the transport be kept in reserve with said unit embarked and roll on together?

 

 

I'm thinking specifically Blood Angel Storm Ravens (deep striking, with Dreadnought and squad embarked) or Space Marine Land Speeder Storms (outflanking, with Scouts embarked). This came up recently in our club and a few players are of the opinion that if they deploy on the table then the unit cannot start in it as it's not dedicated (so they deploy next to each other then on turn 1 get in and drive off). The same players couldn't decide about arriving from reserves in the same way.

[timmytool]

May I just get a little clarification on this non-dedicated transport thing...

 

Unit A wishes to be transported by Heavy Support transport (not dedicated). Can they start the game already embarked? Can the transport be kept in reserve with said unit embarked and roll on together?

 

 

I'm thinking specifically Blood Angel Storm Ravens (deep striking, with Dreadnought and squad embarked) or Space Marine Land Speeder Storms (outflanking, with Scouts embarked). This came up recently in our club and a few players are of the opinion that if they deploy on the table then the unit cannot start in it as it's not dedicated (so they deploy next to each other then on turn 1 get in and drive off). The same players couldn't decide about arriving from reserves in the same way.

 

for normal deployment they can deploy any way they want (accept a dedicated transport can "ONLY" transport the unit it was purchased for while deploying), for reserves its the same accept that its declared when reserving them and you cant combat sq units at that point. In your SR scenario they would be one reserve roll (tank/sq/dread).

[sp4rky]

Ok, that's cool. I'll go smash some faces later as it cost a GK player a game last night B)