Purifier question...

[Astorath the Grim]

Ok since my lgs didn't have any termies I decided to bite the bullet and start a purifier army. My first thought was to run them (to start out) in squads of 5 in a razorback that will be left open to turn into a rhino if I need. My question is how best to equip them. My original thought was with a Daemon hammer on the knight, an incinerator and halberds on the rest. But would two psycannons be better? IMO they are an assault unit so an incinerator makes more sense but??

[thade]

Purifier army? I recommend Psycannons. An Incinerator here or there is fine for assault preparation, but you want mostly Psycannons for anti-armor...and you also want them out of their transports and shooting while they walk. Transports are to hop into later and buzz to objectives...and also to lay down S6 Psybolt Heavy Bolter shots. :cuss

 

Halberds are cheap on Purifiers, so I do recommend those pretty liberally. I'm a fan of S8 weapons on vet ICs in general, at least in any unit that will engage within 12". That said, you could have some squads with and some without as the squads are small and can easily pair off to engage threats.

 

Purifiers are Fearless which is awesome for ranged fights (they'll never run, right to the last man) and can be very good for assaults...though No Retreat! wounds can be pretty brutal. Not a terrible idea to have a Strike Squad or Interceptor Squad or two that can launch into assaults to make absolutely certain your Purifiers win. Though, honestly...base 2 attacks, halberds, Cleansing Flame...you'll find they often win. :cuss

[Astorath the Grim]

Hmmm...perhaps one incinerator and one psycannon per squad? I'm not normally a big fan of mixing special weapons like that...but?

[Something Wycked]

A mix would certainly make them good all-rounder squads, but you could also double up. Example: 5 man squad A with Hammer, 2 Halberds and 2 Incinerators. 5 man squad B with Hammer and 2 Psycannons. The two squads supporting each other could do rather well- one is designed to open transports and the other is designed to flame and assault the contents of the transport.

[Astorath the Grim]

A mix would certainly make them good all-rounder squads, but you could also double up. Example: 5 man squad A with Hammer, 2 Halberds and 2 Incinerators. 5 man squad B with Hammer and 2 Psycannons. The two squads supporting each other could do rather well- one is designed to open transports and the other is designed to flame and assault the contents of the transport.

 

Good idea! I shoulda thought of that

[Zagman]

Purifiers have the Cleansing Flame which is partially redundant with an Incinerator. Psycannons give you a greater ranged threat and the ability to harm armor outside of CC. I put my vote toward psycannons.

[Something Wycked]

I don't know that I'd call Cleansing Flame making Incinerators redundant or vice versa. The psychic power is not as deadly in the to-wound or AP departments, and it can be blocked by psychic defense. It will, however, hit every model engaged in the same combat and so has the potential to cause a great many wounds on a large model count, high armor save squad.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I haven't used any Purifiers yet but I'm planning to kit them as follows:

 

10x Purifier - 2x psycannon, 6x halberd & 2x daemonhammer - rhino

 

G :D

[Astorath the Grim]

Well I was thinking of running it pretty much the same cept with two incinerators once I get enough troops...until then I am going to run just one special and one daemon hammer.

 

The list I'm planning is going to have two storm ravens and two dreadknights..but I'm starting to wonder if I don't need the psycannons more then the incinerators

[Crynn]

Purifiers have the Cleansing Flame which is partially redundant with an Incinerator. Psycannons give you a greater ranged threat and the ability to harm armor outside of CC. I put my vote toward psycannons.

 

+1

 

The incinerator is very expensive and reduces your anti armour and range. Generally if you find yourself in assault range and you fire the heavy incin a smart opponent will remove front models often leaving you out of charge range especially if the enemy is in cover. It is really wasted on them, theya re already great at anti infantry in both cc and shooting. Its a simple equation 1 hammer 2 psycannons all halbards.

 

Purifiers like most GK aren't oredominantly a close combat unit. Purifiers are better than stike knight but still will foten want to sit back and lay down a torrent of fire. Remember they aren't quick so don't be too hasty to rush into combat where they may find themselves Occasinoally outdown by things such as dread, Meph withches with FnP will still hurt them alot.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Astorath the Grim]

Purifiers have the Cleansing Flame which is partially redundant with an Incinerator. Psycannons give you a greater ranged threat and the ability to harm armor outside of CC. I put my vote toward psycannons.

 

+1

 

The incinerator is very expensive and reduces your anti armour and range. Generally if you find yourself in assault range and you fire the heavy incin a smart opponent will remove front models often leaving you out of charge range especially if the enemy is in cover. It is really wasted on them, theya re already great at anti infantry in both cc and shooting. Its a simple equation 1 hammer 2 psycannons all halbards.

 

Purifiers like most GK aren't oredominantly a close combat unit. Purifiers are better than stike knight but still will foten want to sit back and lay down a torrent of fire. Remember they aren't quick so don't be too hasty to rush into combat where they may find themselves Occasinoally outdown by things such as dread, Meph withches with FnP will still hurt them alot.

 

Regards,

Crynn

 

In truth incinerators are free for purifiers, so hardly expensive, and a smart grey knights player does not let loose with the incinerator if there is a chance of taking them out of charge range.

 

Purifiers are more close combat oriented then any other grey knight unit, sans certain henchmen, which are in fact not grey knights.

[-the-white-lizard-]

If I run with MSU purifiers, I usually take 2 squads with a hammer, 2 cannons, 2 halberds and 2 squads with Warding stave, 2 cannons, 2 Halberds. When running small units of purifiers you have to ask yourself whether the hammer will get to hit or not... the warding stave is capable of keeping your units in combat longer for extra turns of cleansing flame, or to bog down walkers etc.

 

But yes if you have the points to spare, psycannons over incinerators any day of the week, unless you are specifically tailoring your list for a game. The ability to deal with vehicles of any armour value, and horde units is invaluable, and much more all-comers then the incinerator.

[TheDarkOne]

I run my purifiers out of a redeemer, which is a little different than the plans here.

 

They are: 2 Hammers, 5 Halberds (1 on the Knight of the Flame) and 3 Incinerators. They come in at 260 pts.

 

They're great to hop out, and burn stuff! Charge everything they can see and because they're running with a librarian, they often get might of titan!

 

It may also be worthwhile to put a warding staff on the knight of the flame, as the only time they'll be using psychic powers in in combat, and the 2+ will really help!

[thade]

It's not a bad thing that Cleansing Flame and Incinerators effectively stack; that said, I wouldn't take so many as "one per squad". I would put one in one or two squads that I wanted for close-range skirmishing, piling the rest of the squads with Psycannons. It's all about giving each squad a role to fill.

 

A generalist squad, in my mind, would get Psycannons as their only ranged-weapon upgrade...and might get a hammer and a halberd or two.

 

A ranged specific squad would get only Psycannons...maaaybe a Hammer for insurance.

 

A close combat squad would get an Incinerator, halberds, and a hammer. Maybe a Psycannon.

 

If I had, say, six squads in my force, the distribution would probably be like 3-4 generalist, 2 ranged specific, 0-1 cc guys. Given that the CC guys are kitted out for optimal short-range engagement, they'd actually be better served as Interceptor squads, so they can be better leveraged supporting parts of my gunline that need it. Precisely the way I use jump teams in my marines now. I more often give my assault squads (with jump packs) flamers than melta guns: I have other things to open tanks up...I want the jump team to eat whatever I pop out in the open.

 

Just the way I roll; not necessarily standard, but it's worked for me.

[Simo429]

I'm running 2 squads

7 man in each and each led by a xenos inquisitor

 

The inquisitor has

rad and psychotroke grenades

psyker mastery with hammerhand

 

in the squad there are

2 psycannons

4 halberds

1 hammer

 

That's 12 attacks on the charge that have an 1/6 chance of autohitting and killing on a 2 the majority of the time.

[Ozybonza]

Don't underestimate the power of 10 purifiers with 4 x incinerators, driving 12" in a rhino and putting 15 - 25 strength 6, cover ignoring hits on a unit. I would only ever equip one or two squads like this as it's very situational, but more times than not the kcick ass.

 

I've taken out Lysander + 5 THSS termies (all in one turn except for 2 wounds left on lysander), tons of marines and a few DE raiders with this unit. Give the remaining guys halberds and they are seriously a force to be reckoned with.

[Abaddonshand]

Don't underestimate the power of 10 purifiers with 4 x incinerators, driving 12" in a rhino and putting 15 - 25 strength 6, cover ignoring hits on a unit. I would only ever equip one or two squads like this as it's very situational, but more times than not the kcick ass.

 

I've taken out Lysander + 5 THSS termies (all in one turn except for 2 wounds left on lysander), tons of marines and a few DE raiders with this unit. Give the remaining guys halberds and they are seriously a force to be reckoned with.

 

It's a setup I considered, with a hammer on the knight of flame just in case, and in a stormraven rather than rhino. However, I wonder if 2 more halberds are better than 2 more incinerators.

 

Also, the idea of a warding stave on the knight of the flame is something I'll look into in the morning!

[UnbreakablePirate]

The only problem with the hammer on the knight of flame/justicar is if you get a perils of the warp your hammers gone. And your most likely going to be casting a psychic power every assualt. thank you thade for telling me that right when i started!

[grimz]

I run a deathstar of purifiers out of a Redeemer, warding save on the Knight actually sounds pretty good.

 

Keeps Coteaz and my grenade caddy alive, plus alows protection from perils... now if I have the points...

[Abaddonshand]

The only problem with the hammer on the knight of flame/justicar is if you get a perils of the warp your hammers gone. And your most likely going to be casting a psychic power every assualt. thank you thade for telling me that right when i started!

 

I know, but in my powered armoured units I use the hammers as a Mark of rank, giving them to justicars in interceptors and strike squads. I liked my purifier unit matching up with that. Of course, I'm now seriously considering a warding stave instead, after all they'll be with a librarian with might of Titan. The only issue is I would have to drop a rhino from my strike squad for it. I would still have enough Points to give then psybolt ammo though, so it might be a wash.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Well, lets think for a second about what Purifiers are, and what they are not;

 

Pros:

 

- 'Cleansing Flame' to clear out tarpits and swing combat their way. By combat squadding (which I highly recommend), you can double-cast, which will make even Marines fear you

- Cheap halberds and hammers, and 2 attacks base

- Outside of Paladins, the most psycannon of any Grey Knight unit (no Purgators suck)

 

Cons:

 

- They die just as easily as Strikers, but cost more (I'm talking more at range, in close-combat they still lack an invul or FNP which means trouble if the enemy have power weapons)

- You will usually have to burn 'Grand Strategy' to make them scoring, because Crowe is so unbelievably bad

 

The primary role of Purifiers is not close-combat (although they do it fairly well, comparable to Terminators), it is fire support and as auxilaries to your core of 2 x Strike squads. They can (and should) get halberds and 1-2 hammers, due to the cheapness (for the price people pay for MC'd hammer on Strike Justicar, you can load out 5 halberds and a hammer on Purifiers), but don't put them in a Stormraven and bum-rush them at the enemy. They are more akin to Sternguard (better than the average Marine at close-combat, but just as squishy and no invul). I'd recommend the following;

 

Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer, 4 x Purifiers w/halberds, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons, Razorback w/lascannon+twin plasma gun

(375 points)

 

Now, how you combat squad is largely going to depend on your opponent and available cover. Putting two combat squads with the psycannons split between them makes fantastic fire support for the Strikes (who we must sadly max out to 10-man to get double psycannon), and it means double casting of 'Cleansing Flame' and combat ability in both units. With a Librarian attached to one of the Strike squads, providing 'Shrouding' and 'Sanctuary' auras (not to mention 'Might' if someone charges a walker or monster at you), you're going to have a very hard to kill firebase set up in the mid-field.

Alternatively, if you think you can risk you hand in close-combat, you can always put a halberd+four psycannons in your auxilary squad, then ride out like a madman in your Razorback with the Flame Knight+rest of them.

 

If you want a pure close-combat unit in a Stormraven, take Death Cult instead. You lose out on power armour, 'Cleansing Flame' and ranged attacks, but you get more S4 power weapon at the same speed as a halberd and WS5 (which is something only Paladins can match). Coteaz is a pretty viable choice as a secondary HQ outside of 2k or higher (Grandmaster and Paladin Deathstar become affordable when you hit that game size).

 

The free incinerators aren't a bad thing, but it's not why you're bringing Purifiers in the first place. Nowhere else in the army do get such affordable psycannon spammed so easily, and in a slot you will almost always have room in (Vindicare is mandatory, everything else in Elite is down to personal choice). Paladins are extremely expensive to bring just for quad psycannon fire support, Purgators eat Heavy slots, have a pointless psychic power, and cost exactly the same for 10-man (putting four psycannons in one 5-man unit isn't something I'd recommend, even with Purifiers). You can never have enough psycannon, especially against things which need 'Rending' to die (like Landraiders).

[Blood Scorpion]

If you want a pure close-combat unit in a Stormraven, take Death Cult instead. You lose out on power armour, 'Cleansing Flame' and ranged attacks, but you get more S4 power weapon at the same speed as a halberd and WS5 (which is something only Paladins can match).

The issue I have with Dealth Cult Assasin's is their lack of Frag Grenades. A close combat unit charging out of a Stormraven will often be assaulting an enemy in cover. Striking at Initiative 1, their 5++ save will mean most are dead before they get to attack. They are good value, but are by no means a unit that's going to rip through half your opponents army on their own.

 

Purifers on the other hand have Frags so will strike at Initiative 6 when charging into cover and Hammerhand/Cleansing Flamer make up for having fewer attacks than the Death Cult. Obviously they cost more, but if you're going to have just one unit tooled for combat to spearhead your force or act as counter assault then Purifers will do the job very well.

 

Forgive me, I'm late to the Grey Knight party, just bought the new Codex 2 days ago. For years I've allied in a unit of "old" Grey Knights into my Marine list, charging out of a Land Raider (with Chaplain) they were fantastic and even without Force Weapons throughout the squad they would beat down most opponents in combat. Sadly I can no longer ally them in so my converted Grey Knights are now much more expensive Honour Guard, but let's get back on topic....

 

The Purifers remind me of the "old" Grey Knights, with their 2 Attacks basic and points per model. The difference is that they all have Force Weapons, and you can add in Halberds/Hammers to make them even better! Hammerhand makes up for the lower Strength and take a IC with Rad Grenades to lead them into the fray and you'll be wounding on 2's against T4 or less opponents. Okay, they don't have an Invulnerable Save, but if you are charging in with 30+ Force Weapon attacks at Initiave 4-6 there will not be many opponents who are still around to hit you back! Of course, I would not recommend throwing them against some of the uber hard core combat units that you might face (TH/SS Terminators for example), but against 90% of opponents the Purifers should comfortably come out on top.

 

The question remaining then is do you bother giving them an incinerator/Psycannon at all? I'm thinking not, but if you did then Psycannons may be the way to go to give them some flexibility. It'd allow them to pop open a transport to get to the squishy enemy hiding inside in the assault phase. Also, if they found themselves out of reach as your opponent runs away following your initial assault(slaughter) the Psycannons would allow them to do more damage as they closed the gap with the cowardly enemy.

 

- You will usually have to burn 'Grand Strategy' to make them scoring, because Crowe is so unbelievably bad

I think you'd only use Grand Strategy in this way if there were 4 or 5 objectives in play, so usually you will be able to use Grand Strategy to allow them to re-roll 1's to wound or allow them (and their transport) to Scout/Outflank.

 

Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer, 4 x Purifiers w/halberds, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons, Razorback w/lascannon+twin plasma gun

(375 points)

Now this I like, 2 of these please to support a combat orientated unit in a Land Raider/Stormraven and you've got one hell of a Purifer force!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The issue I have with Dealth Cult Assasin's is their lack of Frag Grenades. A close combat unit charging out of a Stormraven will often be assaulting an enemy in cover. Striking at Initiative 1, their 5++ save will mean most are dead before they get to attack. They are good value, but are by no means a unit that's going to rip through half your opponents army on their own.

 

Attach Librarian, receive bacon. The main rulebook FAQ clarified that so long as one model in the unit has assault grenades, and he contacts (something pretty easy to achieve, given the size of the Stormraven base+it's sheer speed), the rest of the unit do not suffer the Initiative penalty.

 

Purifers on the other hand have Frags so will strike at Initiative 6 when charging into cover and Hammerhand/Cleansing Flamer make up for having fewer attacks than the Death Cult. Obviously they cost more, but if you're going to have just one unit tooled for combat to spearhead your force or act as counter assault then Purifers will do the job very well.

 

I agree, like I said, they compare very well to Terminators. The problem is, no invul, no FNP and still only WS4. Close-combat, like with all things regarding Knights, is the follow up once you've shot their legs off with a bajillion storm bolter and psycannon rounds. So, by all means, use them as the counterpunch in your firebase, but don't load up on incinerators+Raven and think you're a hacky unit. Other armies have much better pure close-combat units that will slap you down.

 

Forgive me, I'm late to the Grey Knight party, just bought the new Codex 2 days ago. For years I've allied in a unit of "old" Grey Knights into my Marine list, charging out of a Land Raider (with Chaplain) they were fantastic and even without Force Weapons throughout the squad they would beat down most opponents in combat. Sadly I can no longer ally them in so my converted Grey Knights are now much more expensive Honour Guard, but let's get back on topic....

 

I know that feel man. Back when you could avoid taking Tactical Marines entirely (just the two mandatory Scout squads to hug objectives), have an awesome mid-field firebase unit , and superior Terminators than your normal ones (talking Tac Terminators, Stormhammers are even to this day the gold standard of close-combat).

 

The Purifers remind me of the "old" Grey Knights, with their 2 Attacks basic and points per model. The difference is that they all have Force Weapons, and you can add in Halberds/Hammers to make them even better! Hammerhand makes up for the lower Strength and take a IC with Rad Grenades to lead them into the fray and you'll be wounding on 2's against T4 or less opponents. Okay, they don't have an Invulnerable Save, but if you are charging in with 30+ Force Weapon attacks at Initiave 4-6 there will not be many opponents who are still around to hit you back! Of course, I would not recommend throwing them against some of the uber hard core combat units that you might face (TH/SS Terminators for example), but against 90% of opponents the Purifers should comfortably come out on top.

 

Yeah, but you're making a lot of assumptions. Ranged combat is a pretty sure-fire thing for Purifiers (and all Knights), it's close-combat and psychic powers that can be less than reliable. Often you won't be the one making the charge ('Sanctuary' notwithstanding), so it's only 2 attacks each. You then have to contend with only having 6 combat-capable models in the unit (the four psycannon dudes are just wacking their empty guns uselessly against the enemy's face), and you only have WS4. It's quite sad our only two characters that grant re-rolls are so eye-gougingly bad (Bro Champ has 1 wound, takes up HQ slot...and don't get me started on Crowe). But yeah, like I was saying, half your attacks miss. You then have to choose between wounding on 3's, or getting a free round of wounds on a 4+ on them. It's by no means bad, but they're not uber-awesome.

 

 

The question remaining then is do you bother giving them an incinerator/Psycannon at all? I'm thinking not, but if you did then Psycannons may be the way to go to give them some flexibility. It'd allow them to pop open a transport to get to the squishy enemy hiding inside in the assault phase. Also, if they found themselves out of reach as your opponent runs away following your initial assault(slaughter) the Psycannons would allow them to do more damage as they closed the gap with the cowardly enemy.

 

Well exactly. The maxim of every Knight player is 'I can never have enough psycannons', closely followed by 'I can never have enough manz'. So, make sure you've taken enough of both, then start looking at transports, close-combat upgrades etc.

 

I think you'd only use Grand Strategy in this way if there were 4 or 5 objectives in play, so usually you will be able to use Grand Strategy to allow them to re-roll 1's to wound or allow them (and their transport) to Scout/Outflank.

 

Well yeah, but then you have to consider tournament scenarios with weird win conditions, or facing down an army that eats Marine squads every turn (Imperial Guard, gunlines etc). Like I said, you can never have enough guys, and especially scoring guys is hard to come buy (unless you give into the temptation of Coteaz).

 

Now this I like, 2 of these please to support a combat orientated unit in a Land Raider/Stormraven and you've got one hell of a Purifer force!

 

Don't even need a Raider/Raven+close-combat Purifiers. Take a Librarian, a Terminator blob/Paladin Deathstar (former in smaller games etc), wedge them between your Razorbacks, advance (and don't forget the Dreadknight zooming up a flank to bring some divine justice). The enemy is now forced to shoot up a tank, a 10-wound meatshield that will utterly evapourate any assault unit send to kill them/tie them up, or another tank. Purifiers advance behind this wall, safely within 'Sanctuary'/'Shrouding' aura. Then after 2 turns of moving, you're within psycannon range. You may now proceed to cackle as you unleash insane amounts of psycannon downrange.

[Blood Scorpion]

The issue I have with Dealth Cult Assasin's is their lack of Frag Grenades. A close combat unit charging out of a Stormraven will often be assaulting an enemy in cover. Striking at Initiative 1, their 5++ save will mean most are dead before they get to attack. They are good value, but are by no means a unit that's going to rip through half your opponents army on their own.

 

Attach Librarian, receive bacon. The main rulebook FAQ clarified that so long as one model in the unit has assault grenades, and he contacts (something pretty easy to achieve, given the size of the Stormraven base+it's sheer speed), the rest of the unit do not suffer the Initiative penalty.

I didn't know that. I've looked at the FAQ on GW website (update 1.4) and can't find that particular clarification, what page is it on?

[Brother Valerius]

The issue I have with Dealth Cult Assasin's is their lack of Frag Grenades. A close combat unit charging out of a Stormraven will often be assaulting an enemy in cover. Striking at Initiative 1, their 5++ save will mean most are dead before they get to attack. They are good value, but are by no means a unit that's going to rip through half your opponents army on their own.

 

Attach Librarian, receive bacon. The main rulebook FAQ clarified that so long as one model in the unit has assault grenades, and he contacts (something pretty easy to achieve, given the size of the Stormraven base+it's sheer speed), the rest of the unit do not suffer the Initiative penalty.

I didn't know that. I've looked at the FAQ on GW website (update 1.4) and can't find that particular clarification, what page is it on?

 

I can't find it either. Perhaps Darius is thinking of the GK FAQ entry which gives the ruling he mentions for rad, psyk-out, and psychotroke grenades?