he_plays_guitar Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am not a blood angels player, so I am not sure how you guys interpret this, but I have a friend who runs mepheston with an honor guard squad, making it impossible to target mepheston individually. This also allows him to allocate wounds to the honor guard thereby allowing mepheston to survive for a long time...he is impossible to kill this way. Is he cheating? He states his codex says he can have an honor guard for every HQ. This would mean that mepheston gets an honor guard since he is an HQ. He also states that page 48 in the rulebook says a character can join a retinue (body guard or similar) and since an honor guard is similar to a bodyguard, he can have mephiston in the honor guard squad as per the codex rules concerning honor guard and the core rulebook concerning a retinue. Now, since I play dark angels and dont have an honor guard, extreme jealousy and anger ensues. Is my friend in the right? I thought this would be a good place to find out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 He's incorrect. The HG are a separate unit, and do not use the rules for a retinue. Mephiston cannot join any squad, or be joined by an Independent Character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2855548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Taking Mephiston allows your friend to buy an Honor Guard. But the Honor Guard is not a retinue. Mephiston is not an IC so he can not be attached to the Honor Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2855585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Retinue is actually a special rule which units have. You said it yourself when you said 'LIKE a retinue'. Like is not good enough, they have to be a Retinue. Honour Guard are not. And Mephiston does not have the Independent Character rule anyway, so he may never join a squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2855677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
he_plays_guitar Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 His argument is since page 48 of the rulebook says "Some codex books allow you to field characters together with a special unit...which is normally called a 'retinue', 'bodyguard' or similar." He says since it says "or similar" that means an honor guard could be considered "similar." We asked the manager at our local GW and he even made a few phone calls asking about it, and nobody could give us a straight answer since it says "similar" and one could assume an honor guard is similar to a bodyguard, (hence them being a retinue.) I dont see how it is legal...and it looks like it is NOT legal...but even the managers at our GW stores couldn't make a ruling on it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2855737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The important thing to remember is that the rule you are talking about is in the Independent Characters section- which Mephiston is not. Otherwise, purchasing an Honor Guard for him would not only allow the Guard to protect him while it was alive, it would actually grant him the Indepedent Character special rule after they died, which makes absolutely no sense at all. Mephiston is a singular unit of one model. He cannot join or be joined by other models under any circumstances. The fact that he allows you to purchase another unit that does not occupy a FoC slot makes no difference at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2855749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The important thing to remember is that the rule you are talking about is in the Independent Characters section- which Mephiston is not. Otherwise, purchasing an Honor Guard for him would not only allow the Guard to protect him while it was alive, it would actually grant him the Indepedent Character special rule after they died, which makes absolutely no sense at all. Mephiston is a singular unit of one model. He cannot join or be joined by other models under any circumstances. The fact that he allows you to purchase another unit that does not occupy a FoC slot makes no difference at all. This. Your friend is cheating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2855848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Retinues are covered in the same entry as the character in cases where they can be taken. The current BA codex has none of those. We do have embedded characters like the techmarine and Lemartes, but none of those are independent characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2855934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
he_plays_guitar Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm going to show this thread to him and hopefully convince him that he is wrong. He has been playing for 20 years, he usually is spot on about rules, and for some reason he thought he found a loophole, especially since our GW managers couldn't tell us one way or another. Surprising...since it sounds pretty cut and dry that it's not allowed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2856899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Yea, Retinues are a thing of the past. That blip on pg 48 he refers to is so older codecies which are still used (DA, BT, Eldar) which actually have "retinues" still can. The Honour Guard doesn't have the term "Retinue" attached to it; it is not a Retinue. It is unfortunately formatted in a very similar way to old Retinues (same page in a uniquely colored box) but the reason for this is that Honour Guard are unlocked by the purchase of an HQ. Kindly refer your friend to the Independent Character rule. <3 Mephiston doesn't have it. He can never join a unit. Nor can be ever be joined by any Independent Character, as he is always a unit consisting of one model. In addition... Mephiston is Super Man. He's the melee equivalent of six Terminators...just as durable, just as deadly...but more maneuverable as he can fly, he's Fleet, and he's a single Infantry model so he can squeeze places six Terminators cannot. The guy is a beast. At T6, it takes anti-tank fire to really hurt him; the 2+ makes him virtually immune to small arms fire. He is not broken because he has no Invulnerable save and can never hide in a Unit, ever. :lol: That's how he's balanced. He doesn't need a unit. He's a one man army. EDIT: I know how this can go sometimes with friends and rule disputes. Try this, if it helps: I use the BA codex. I personally field Mephiston one out of every two games I play. I have never had him join a unit. He's always flown solo, racing across the battlefield like some insane anime ninja hero. He works just fine that way. In fact, it's stupid fun...because that single model looks so awesome engaging entire units on his own and crushing them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2856907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Yea, Retinues are a thing of the past. That blip on pg 48 he refers to is so older codecies which are still used (DA, BT, Eldar) which actually have "retinues" still can. The Honour Guard doesn't have the term "Retinue" attached to it; it is not a Retinue. Tau also have a retinue, their battlesuits were FAQed to be one. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2856946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 If he still wants to hide Mephiston he could do it in a transport after the game has started (as the only thing he could start in would be a Stormraven), but that would probably be a waste in most circumstances... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236885-mepheston-with-an-honor-guard-is-this-ok/#findComment-2857103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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