Lone Wolf Question

[Tybrus]

So as most around here know I have been playing since the day RT hit the shelf, and my first love was the Wolves and Commander Russ.

 

Ok so that's that; we know that no one had ever heard of Lone Wolves before the new dex, so this is less a true Fluff question then "what do you think about" question. As there is no right or wrong answer I ask please keep things brotherly.

 

 

That said I have a Massive amount of 40k stuff, 8 armies all 5K+. Not to brag, just saying I have become bored with running a pure force of any kind. So my idea has been simple I have decided to run a crusade of assembled Imperial forces. I plan to write it up, but long story short the Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Black Templars launch a crusade into the Eye of Terror. Within the Eye they run across some Wolves and they all make marry and go on about the killing of chaos.

 

So These armies as you can tell are all made up from what I have already and collect. To really enjoy this force I plan to mix and match Chapters within units. (This is all friendly games I play with all the old men that learned the game with me when we were young) The idea is that as the Crusade move deeper and takes loses chapters break down noncombat strength units to reform them into combat effective strength. (Rules wise i pick which set I want to use for the army and let my foe known before hand)

 

So here is the Questions

 

1) For a lone wolf to have TDArmor he must be a Wolf Guard correct?

2) If that is the case would they be the last of the old Wolf Lord's Wolf Guard?

 

Now for the what do you think big one...

 

Given the Fluff I have stated above. If the Crusade were to be doing a TDA Assault, or assembling an Assault Squad would a Lone Wolf Join a Joint action with other Assault Terms? The idea is the Crusade Lead (Counts as Lysander) is bring together an assault squad to breach a Walled compound. They will use a Templar LRC with Counts as Lysander, 2 Templars TH/SS, 2 CF TH/SS, 1 IF /w TH/SS, 1 BT w/LC's, and the Lone with with LC.

 

 

Now I know this is all academic as I can do what I want (and already plan to, and they force will use Codex rules) But the deeper question remains what does Honor dictate he must do in such a event? Ignore the order and stay on the ship? Force his way down in a Drop pod and die in glory, Swallow his Honor for the All Father and carry his justice to the foe? Tell me what you think and why (if you care)

[Grimtooth]

The current fluff regarding Lone Wolves is that taking the oath of the Lone Wolf is a pretty respected action, one that even the wolf lord will not stand in the way of. That being the case, I feel that the armory doors are kinda thrown open to allow the Lone Wolf to regain their honor. It is also said that when a Lone Wolf gets his vengeance, he is welcomed back and inducted into the Wolf Guard. ALSO, a Bloodclaw in Battle of the Fang takes the oath of the Lone Wolf.

 

So no, I do not think being in the Wolf Guard is required to be a Lone Wolf in TDA.

[Blacksad]

a lone wolf in 40k is like a dwarven slayer in fantasy. they don't care how it happens, as long as they restore the glory of their clan/pack...

 

now, as to the question wether a Lone wolf NEEDS to be a wolf guard to get TDA... I'm not certain. it's not cause our codex allows only WG to wear TDA, that they're the only ones to wear it... he might just as well be from a bloodclaw pack, that received TDA specificaly for that mission, or whatever. it's only armour afterall. a Lone wolf, according to fluff, is always the last surviving member of a pack. then again, not all space wolves are part of a pack. a lone wolf might just as well be an ex-grey hunter that turned scout due to his taciturn demeanor, but always went to war in TDA, because it's not cause he doesn't play well with others that he is sneaky... He might even be to headstrong and impetious (svp?) for the blood claws, and be kicked out of the pack, forced to fend for himself, and forced into becomming a pack of one... fluffwise, you can go wherever you please, the only restraint being your own limited imagination

 

 

now, while I'm not certain I understood every abreviation you've used, I feel compelled to try and answer your question as plain and simply as I can:

 

Ignore the order and stay on the ship?

hell no, no honour to be held

Force his way down in a Drop pod and die in glory

maybe, depending on what his current supervisor says, and how well he respects his tactical insights... £He might say "f*ck you", he might say "I see what you mean... I'll follow your orders, and give you victory, wether with my life, or with my death" ,

Swallow his Honor for the All Father and carry his justice to the foe?

never swallow his honour, for he has none to swallow. it's the reason why he became a lone wolf, to regain his honour...

[Demonslayer]

Given the Fluff I have stated above. If the Crusade were to be doing a TDA Assault, or assembling an Assault Squad would a Lone Wolf Join a Joint action with other Assault Terms? The idea is the Crusade Lead (Counts as Lysander) is bring together an assault squad to breach a Walled compound. They will use a Templar LRC with Counts as Lysander, 2 Templars TH/SS, 2 CF TH/SS, 1 IF /w TH/SS, 1 BT w/LC's, and the Lone with with LC.

 

Usually I think the Lone Wolf would fight on his own for the lost packs honer.

 

As in your game fluff terms:

 

The Lone Wolf could just be using the squad as a means of getting into the stronghold to find the biggest, nastiness and pure fighter to gain the lost packs honour or die trying

[Silverwolf]

It's only armour afterall.

 

That comment is a bit misleading. Even PA is highly looked after, TDA suits are prized relics for any Chapter, and are looked after as such. Bro.Ramses comment was I think more correct, in that the Great Company / Chapter see the oath of a Lone Wolf as a highly honourable thing, and do what they can to support a brother who takes the oath, including allowing him the use of a TDA suit.

 

...then again, not all space wolves are part of a pack. a lone wolf might just as well be an ex-grey hunter that turned scout due to his taciturn demeanor, but always went to war in TDA, because it's not cause he doesn't play well with others that he is sneaky...

 

Again misleading. A Space Wolf scout never goes to war in TDA, hell even a WG Pack Leader or HQ in TDA cannot join a unit of scouts. And Space Wolves are always part of a pack. When a Space Wolf becomes a Wolf Scout, he is simply joining a pack more suited to his talents/demeanour.

 

However a Wolf Scout could become a Lone Wolf if his Scout Pack was destroyed, and he felt their honour tarnished so took the oath to regain honour for his lost pack mates.

 

He might even be to headstrong and impetious (svp?) for the blood claws, and be kicked out of the pack, forced to fend for himself, and forced into becomming a pack of one...

 

No.

1) A Blood Claw would not be kicked from his pack for being Headstrong. Ever read the fluff about Lukas? The whole point of the Blood Claws is that they are impetuous and headstrong, and it's not until they calm down that they become Grey Hunters.

2) Even if a Blood Claw could be kicked from his pack for being to headstrong/impetuous, he would not then be honoured with being allowed to take the oath of a Lone Wolf, and certainly would not be provided with a suit of TDA.

 

Wolf Priests / Rune Priests can control a full-blown Wulfen transformation, I think they can handle a Blood Claw.

 

++++

 

In answer to Tybrus's question.

 

First remember how the pack structure within the Space Wolves works. Initiates are inducted in packs of Blood Claws. Headstrong and spoiling for a fight, these packs are used as shock troops, usually under the guidance of a far more veteran Wolf, such as a Wolf Guard, or even a Wolf Priest.

 

As their numbers dwindle through losses, and they become forged in the fires of war, the Blood Claws settle down, and are ready to become Grey Hunters. They've learnt discipline in all things, and are a now a battle-hardened and tested fighting force that can go toe-to-toe with the worst the universe has to offer. (Note the drop in max pack numbers from 15 to 10 in the codex reflects this change from Blood Claws to Grey Hunters).

 

Eventually, as they become "long in the tooth", and their pack has taken even further losses, Grey Hunters become Long Fangs, now entrusted with their Great Companies heaviest weaponry, and trusted by their brothers to provide fire support and protection from the biggest and meanest targets on the field. (Further reflected by the drop from a max of 10, to a max of 6 in a pack)

 

And throughout this whole process, Space Wolves can become either Wolf Guard, or Wolf Scouts. The Wolf Guard being members of any level of the pack hierarchy, from any pack, who have shown distinction through deeds above and beyond the norm. These deeds earn them an induction into the Wolf Guard of their Wolf Lord. Wolf Scouts on the other hand come from those who show a lean towards an agility of mind and action, along with a steady and calm demeanour, that sets them apart from their brothers, and makes them perfectly suited to the art of recon, able to exist, and act, independently of all but their small pack, sometimes spending years behind enemy lines before emerging to exact a terrible toll on the enemy.

 

 

Now, think about what the oath of the Lone Wolf is. A Space Wolf has lost his entire pack, brothers he has probably fought alongside of for 100 years or more, and more then any other member of the Space Wolves, his pack was his family. And now, through some terrible circumstance, that entire pack has been annihilated, his brothers, his family, dead to the last. And so he takes the Oath of the Lone Wolf to avenge his pack, and regain his pack's honour. So that his pack (not he alone, but his pack as a whole) can be recalled with honour within the Sagas of the Wolf Priests.

 

And after having taken this oath, Lysander, the Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists, has called upon him personally to join in on an assault on a compound so heavily fortified that it requires a TDA geared assault force with Landraider support to breach. The act of taking part in such an assault almost in of itself would gain great honour for his pack, but if it were to succeed, he and his pack would be remembered within the Sagas of the Space Wolves for generations to come. Would he do it? Yes.

[Blacksad]

the examples I've given are just possibilities explained with some aspects of the fluff, and the rules. the scoutguy obviously isn't really a scout, but isn't part of his grey hunter pack eighter, for the same reason as a scout would cease to be a grey hunter: doesn't play well with others.

 

Lukas's fluff to me is even worse than Canis, therefor, I disregard it completely. that page does not exist. Even among Blood Claws, all members are seasoned warriors. They know throwing your weapons away, removing your armour, and jumping into a hoard of genestealers to urinate in the eye of the broodlord is a dumb thing to do. (just to give an over the top example) to field a lone wolf, you don't need a character that has taken the vow of the lone wolf. you just need a though dude that's not part of a pack, and strives to fight the biggest, baddest and meanest-looking foes, that isn't a wolf guard battle leader, priest, or lord. you make your own fluff.

 

not all wolves are part of a pack btw, not in rl, not in the space wolves. sometimes they band together for a mission, but scouts as far as I've read tend to keep to themselves, even finding other wolf scouts' company to be tedious at best.

 

edit: synopsis: when using a Lone Wolf in game, you don't HAVE to call it a Lone Wolf in your army fluff. There's tons of ways to explain a model having those special rules within a space wolf army besides the oath. (specialy because simply swearing an oath doesn't give you FNP)

[Valerian]

First remember how the pack structure within the Space Wolves works. Initiates are inducted in packs of Blood Claws. Headstrong and spoiling for a fight, these packs are used as shock troops, usually under the guidance of a far more veteran Wolf, such as a Wolf Guard, or even a Wolf Priest.

 

As their numbers dwindle through losses, and they become forged in the fires of war, the Blood Claws settle down, and are ready to become Grey Hunters. They've learnt discipline in all things, and are a now a battle-hardened and tested fighting force that can go toe-to-toe with the worst the universe has to offer. (Note the drop in max pack numbers from 15 to 10 in the codex reflects this change from Blood Claws to Grey Hunters).

 

Eventually, as they become "long in the tooth", and their pack has taken even further losses, Grey Hunters become Long Fangs, now entrusted with their Great Companies heaviest weaponry, and trusted by their brothers to provide fire support and protection from the biggest and meanest targets on the field. (Further reflected by the drop from a max of 10, to a max of 6 in a pack)

 

And throughout this whole process, Space Wolves can become either Wolf Guard, or Wolf Scouts. The Wolf Guard being members of any level of the pack hierarchy, from any pack, who have shown distinction through deeds above and beyond the norm. These deeds earn them an induction into the Wolf Guard of their Wolf Lord. Wolf Scouts on the other hand come from those who show a lean towards an agility of mind and action, along with a steady and calm demeanour, that sets them apart from their brothers, and makes them perfectly suited to the art of recon, able to exist, and act, independently of all but their small pack, sometimes spending years behind enemy lines before emerging to exact a terrible toll on the enemy.

 

 

Now, think about what the oath of the Lone Wolf is. A Space Wolf has lost his entire pack, brothers he has probably fought alongside of for 100 years or more, and more then any other member of the Space Wolves, his pack was his family. And now, through some terrible circumstance, that entire pack has been annihilated, his brothers, his family, dead to the last. And so he takes the Oath of the Lone Wolf to avenge his pack, and regain his pack's honour. So that his pack (not he alone, but his pack as a whole) can be recalled with honour within the Sagas of the Wolf Priests.

 

Silverwolf has it all right on the money.

 

And after having taken this oath, Lysander, the Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists, has called upon him personally to join in on an assault on a compound so heavily fortified that it requires a TDA geared assault force with Landraider support to breach. The act of taking part in such an assault almost in of itself would gain great honour for his pack, but if it were to succeed, he and his pack would be remembered within the Sagas of the Space Wolves for generations to come. Would he do it? Yes.

 

Agreed. I would also add that once the fighting started, the Lone Wolf would do it on his own, and not as a part of another unit. Although the setup for this game is the narrative, and he is going to deploy with the the joint/combined force, I would have him separate and fight on his own.

 

Valerian

[Tybrus]

Thanks for all the responses, I was really surprised by the number of "The Lone wolf would just not go" answers. THe one I liked best had to be "He uses them to get to a bigger target". I am just surprised that of a legion that would be the first to take on Another Space Marine, that so few would see Duty to the All father as less important to their Oaths. However, from having the life I had, I understand the power that lost brothers play in the rest of your life.

 

Thanks again

[Grimtooth]

It is a pretty hardcore oath.

 

If you read the codex entry on it, the Lone Wolf is usually inducted into the Wolf Guard IF he makes it back alive. It is pretty much a kill or be killed death oath hence why it is pretty respected.