Further HH Novels (What YOU want to see)

[Týr]

Really looking forward to ADB World Eaters book. I have a feel, that it might become the most refreshing part of the entire series.

 

And then I would like that the White Scars got a book. It's quite sad they have been ignored, besides, "Little Horus" and some small refrences.

I remember Dan Abnett talking about how he likes to write about them. And I really think he should. He's maby the best for creating entire new aspects of the universe, and reinvent stuff. Just like he did with the Vlka Fenryka in Prospero Burns.

[Captain Semper]

I think it's going to be an audio... Anyway as I mentioned in the Aurelian thread I think his portrayal in that novella was very promising indeed (small as it was). So yeah, I look fwd to it too!

[Gree]

I would like an Ultramarines novel showcasing their way of war and culture. It will feature a Codex Astartes-type Marine force go against a Heresy era Marine force and have them win handily, showcasing the tactical flexibility that the Codex offers and why strict adherence to the Codex is a good thing. This will ideally be written by Abnett or A D-B.

 

Unfortunately with GW’s current policies concerning the Codex Astartes, this probably won’t happen.

[Nikt208]

I would like an Ultramarines novel showcasing their way of war and culture. It will feature a Codex Astartes-type Marine force go against a Heresy era Marine force and have them win handily, showcasing the tactical flexibility that the Codex offers and why strict adherence to the Codex is a good thing. This will ideally be written by Abnett or A D-B.

 

Unfortunately with GW’s current policies concerning the Codex Astartes, this probably won’t happen.

 

I suggest Know No Fear by Dan Abnett, coming next March. Its the battle of Calth, however I think you will be disappointed with the codex references as it will most likely show the exact opposite of what you stated, i.e non-strict adherence (as was the original intention by Guilliman - see GM's short in Age of Darkness) is the proper use of the codex, its just meant to be a guide. Truth be told Heresy era forces are usually more likely to win against 40k era Ultra's given they A) 'think outside the box' ;) are less narrow minded than the indoctrinated marines of the 40k era.

[Gree]

Its the battle of Calth, however I think you will be disappointed with the codex references as it will most likely show the exact opposite of what you stated, i.e non-strict adherence (as was the original intention by Guilliman - see GM's short in Age of Darkness) is the proper use of the codex, its just meant to be a guide. Truth be told Heresy era forces are usually more likely to win against 40k era Ultra's given they A) 'think outside the box' ;) are less narrow minded than the indoctrinated marines of the 40k era.

 

Not really. The concept of the Codex being a restrictive and obstructive document is essentially a product of Graham McNeill introducing a problem that did not orginally exist.

 

Legatus has some interesting insights into the Codex Astartes and McNeill's rather daft interpretation of it here.

 

Suffice to say, the Second Edition introduced the Codex Astartes as an empowering tool and that strict adherence was a good thing. The idea that it is a obstructive document mostly came to play when McNeill wrote it for his stories and contradicts prior interpretations of the Codex.

 

The Deathwatch Rulebook has a better example of the Ultramarines Codex adherance.

 

This is not to say that the Ultramarines are hidebound or unimaginative in their thinking, for it must not be forgotten that Primarch Roboute Guilliman is regarded as one of the most imaginative and innovative military thinkers of all time. It is rather a deep-seated belief that every problem can be solved with recourse to the Codex Astartes, that there is no need to reinvent solutions to dilemmas solved long ago. By their strict adherence to the Codex, the Ultramarines are in fact freed by it. The success of this doctrine is self-evident in the countless thousands of battle honours the Chapter has earned over ten millennia of loyal service to the Imperium."

 

Of course McNeill appearantly hates Ultramarines so............

[esinhorn]

I think there will always be a "Heresy Series" now.

The Horus Heresy will end at the Seige but there are just as many interesting stories about the Scouring and implementaion of the codex.

That could be a 10 book series easily covering the infancy of the Imperium and the Death of the Primarchs.

The you have the Age of Apostasy that has never been too fleshed out if they really wanted to milk it the could come out with 13 Black Crusade books.

I think there is always going to be a part of Black Library that goes back and expand on the little stories we have been reading for over 20 years.

[Perrin]

They couldn't really put any of those in the HH series though. The Black Crusades books would probably be Space Marine Battles, The Age of Apostasy could just be a standalone series, the Scouring could be added to the end of the HH and maybe the Primarchs dieing/leaving.

[Castiel]

They couldn't really put any of those in the HH series though. The Black Crusades books would probably be Space Marine Battles, The Age of Apostasy could just be a standalone series, the Scouring could be added to the end of the HH and maybe the Primarchs dieing/leaving.

 

I think he meant there will always be a "hersey" type series, not as a part of the HH, but a series about these events in a similar style.

[esinhorn]

That is what I meant,books that looking into 40k history that have more than just three books or a stand alone.

Sure you can condense it all down but remember the original Horus Heresy story was a paragraph or two now it is close to 20 books and counting

[badger_baiter]

Think an Iron Hands novel would be good. Also maybe a third DA novel, just to flesh out the story of the Fallen. It just seemed the end of Fallen Angels was a bit abrupt. I reckon they should not only do the Battle for Terra, but also go into the scouring, showing how the actions taken then affect the 40K universe

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I would like an Ultramarines novel showcasing their way of war and culture. It will feature a Codex Astartes-type Marine force go against a Heresy era Marine force and have them win handily, showcasing the tactical flexibility that the Codex offers and why strict adherence to the Codex is a good thing. This will ideally be written by Abnett or A D-B.

 

Unfortunately with GW’s current policies concerning the Codex Astartes, this probably won’t happen.

 

read the second short story anthology in the HH series, it has an excellent shor piece about how te Codex was created and it's inherent flexibility.

[A D-B]

Really looking forward to ADB World Eaters book. I have a feel, that it might become the most refreshing part of the entire series.

 

Oh, no pressure then.

 

I hate you.

 

...

[Olis]

Really looking forward to ADB World Eaters book. I have a feel, that it might become the most refreshing part of the entire series.

 

Oh, no pressure then.

 

I hate you.

 

...

 

Relax. You'll get support from us, whatever the weather. <_<

[DIDM]

Loken's ascension to Grey Knight GM

[Crimson Hawk]

Please ADB, I'm begging you, please make the WE book do for them what The First Heretic did for word Bearers? The little snippets we've been getting, like in Age of Darkness and Aurelian suggest something much deeper than the 'ragingOMGgladiatordeathkillmassacregorenoreason' achetype they are usually presented as.

Oh, and Nick Kyme = More HH Sallies would be awesome, even if just a cameo in someone elses book.

[Castiel]

Really looking forward to ADB World Eaters book. I have a feel, that it might become the most refreshing part of the entire series.

 

Oh, no pressure then.

 

I hate you.

 

...

 

Relax. You'll get support from us, whatever the weather. :(

 

Unless its awful, in which case we shall beat you with sticks! ;)

[Gaius Atticus]

I would like to see a book covering the White Scars excellent hit and run heroics at the siege of Terra.

[Eirik_Xenobane]

I want three things from the HH series

 

1) The story of Mortarion's fall from grace and how he sells his legion to Nurgle

 

2) I want some Blood Angels action

 

3) I'd love a book about the Imperial Army, the ordinary guy on the ground and how the heresy effects him. I want the fear and terror of humans facing astartes, i would love to see the human side, the REAL human side of the heresy.

[Gree]

I would like an Ultramarines novel showcasing their way of war and culture. It will feature a Codex Astartes-type Marine force go against a Heresy era Marine force and have them win handily, showcasing the tactical flexibility that the Codex offers and why strict adherence to the Codex is a good thing. This will ideally be written by Abnett or A D-B.

 

Unfortunately with GW’s current policies concerning the Codex Astartes, this probably won’t happen.

 

read the second short story anthology in the HH series, it has an excellent shor piece about how te Codex was created and it's inherent flexibility.

 

That’s exactly the short story I’m criticizing actually. It is not portrayed as something flexible or helpfull. It’s a magic formula that lists out a step by step guide to fight a war, a set of steps and tactics that the Marine Commander did not even really understand the ultimate objective of.

 

Perhaps the most hurtful part is at the end when Guilliman himself shows up and states that the Codex is not to be followed strictly. Which is basically saying the Ultramarines chapter is wrong. Let me put it like this. If you are a Space Wolf fan and GW publishes a short story in which Russ reveals that he never intended the ways of Fenris to be followed like that and the Space Wolves have been dead wrong for ten thousand years.

 

You would be rather miffed wouldn’t you?

[Kodanshi]

But seems to be typical of the way of our species. Take Jesus as an example, read ‘his’ words in the Bible, now compare them to the way Christianity is today…

[Gree]

But seems to be typical of the way of our species. Take Jesus as an example, read ‘his’ words in the Bible, now compare them to the way Christianity is today…

 

I’m not going to address that point as I will not get involved in a religious discussion on Bolter and Chainsword.

 

I view it as a disservice that the main trait of the Ultramarines (Strict adherence to the Codex) is portrayed as a weakness by McNeill and something their Primarch did not want.

[DarKnight]

But seems to be typical of the way of our species. Take Jesus as an example, read ‘his’ words in the Bible, now compare them to the way Christianity is today…

 

I’m not going to address that point as I will not get involved in a religious discussion on Bolter and Chainsword.

 

I view it as a disservice that the main trait of the Ultramarines (Strict adherence to the Codex) is portrayed as a weakness by McNeill and something their Primarch did not want.

So instead of the the loose Ultramarines being bound to the strict Codex, you'd rather the strict Ultramarines be bound to the loose codex. I understand, and I agree with you.

[Veteran Sergeant]

What really needs to happen is that Graham McNeill never be allowed to write Ultramarines fiction again, lol.

 

 

However, I think you're on track with the way the Ultramarines were originally intended to be with the idea of a "loose" Codex. Strict adherence to the Codex was never supposed to be a weakness, it was just supposed to define the Ultramarines. The Codex was supposed to be a tome of tactical knowledge, and the idea of the Ultramarines revering it referred to the organizational, training, etc doctrines that lie within it. The combat doctrines of the Codex were so wide and varied, with hundreds of pages on every possible subject, that you could never do any of the various silly literary atrocities that McNeill and other bad writers have suggested in the past (like Alpharius predicting the Ultramarines because he knew the Codex rules for planetary assaults). If you go back to one of the earliest sources for the Codex Astartes and the Ultramarines' style of warfare, Codex: Ultramarines, Guilliman is described as "When he struck he always sought out the enemy's weakest spot, the fatal crack in the foe's defense". That doesn't sound like a guy who had written a formula for battles, but one who was, as C:U also described him, "a brilliant strategist". There's nothing "brilliant" or "strategist" about laying out formulas for battle that cannot take into account the variables of a particular engagement's enemy forces, the terrain, your own forces and supplies, environmental concerns, etc. Those statements alone make the mere notions of the McNeill stories ludicrous, as well as the poor assumptions of 40K players less well versed in the practical application of battlefield strategy and tactics. Though, to the players' defense, they've been led astray by poorly equipped authors like McNeill and Graham Davey (perpetrator of that terrible Alpha Legion article from WD 277/Index Astartes IV) whose mediocre to bad fiction has been deemed by Games Workshop as acceptable for publication.

 

On the topic of the thread, I'd like to see a bit more on the Night Lords, but, like with the Ultramarines, only if it is put in the hands of a careful, discerning author who can adequately capture the unique story of the chapter without resorting to the rather bland and formulaic stuff we've seen thus far. I feel like a good writer can capture the cold logic and ruthlessness of Curze without reducing him to a stock villain twirling his mustache, or of a one dimensional butcher. I'd say that I'd like to see the World Eaters, but it looks like we'll get to see them, so it remains to see how ADB has treated them. Certainly what we've seen of them thus far has been somewhat disappointingly one dimensional.

[karden00]

I want to see some more interaction between the Primarchs themselves. As a True Blue UltraSmurf, I dont feel 100% right about saying it, but I love the character of Fulgrim. I particularly want to see Fulgrim mingle with Sanguinius, as Ive always felt that these two could have a wonderful dynamic.

Also, Love the idea of White Scars hit and run on Terra, and Big Tyme Love for the idea of private jones of the XXVII Saturnine infantry and what he thinks of the heresy, the sheer terror of facing astartes and the beacon of hope friendly astartes would seem.

Grey Knights have become almost pornographic to me over the years. I just cant stomach all the awesomeness they just seem to attract.

Custodes. Now those guys need more lovin!

[Liquidice]

I would really love to see a book from the view point of Dorn and Abaddon dealing with the huge traitor fleet battling through the sol system, including taking over/destroying luna's massive navel bases and Terra's orbital fleet and defenses, and ending at the beginning of the invasion of Terra. Possibly Dorn and the Phalanx vs. Abaddon and traitor fleet, and going through their minds when the final invasion was imminent. I believe a look into abaddon's soul before the invasion would make for an interesting novel.