Further HH Novels (What YOU want to see)

[Grimdarkness]

Vulkan and how he escaped istvaan and the mental state he and the promethan creed suffer in trying to rebuild the legion.

[Eirik_Xenobane]

I would like an Ultramarines novel showcasing their way of war and culture. It will feature a Codex Astartes-type Marine force go against a Heresy era Marine force and have them win handily, showcasing the tactical flexibility that the Codex offers and why strict adherence to the Codex is a good thing. This will ideally be written by Abnett or A D-B.

 

Unfortunately with GW’s current policies concerning the Codex Astartes, this probably won’t happen.

 

read the second short story anthology in the HH series, it has an excellent shor piece about how te Codex was created and it's inherent flexibility.

 

That’s exactly the short story I’m criticizing actually. It is not portrayed as something flexible or helpfull. It’s a magic formula that lists out a step by step guide to fight a war, a set of steps and tactics that the Marine Commander did not even really understand the ultimate objective of.

 

Perhaps the most hurtful part is at the end when Guilliman himself shows up and states that the Codex is not to be followed strictly. Which is basically saying the Ultramarines chapter is wrong. Let me put it like this. If you are a Space Wolf fan and GW publishes a short story in which Russ reveals that he never intended the ways of Fenris to be followed like that and the Space Wolves have been dead wrong for ten thousand years.

 

You would be rather miffed wouldn’t you?

 

Nope, i wouldn't be surprised actualy.

 

The HH is the past, 40k is the preset (as far as the game setting goes). Everything is twisted and static, the fact that the Emperor has become a God and worshiped in direct opposition to the Imperial truth he tried to create is the best way to highlight how things turned out.

 

That the Ultramarines are wrong in their single-minded devotion to the codex is of no surprise and I wouldn't be surprised if Russ had a different view of the Wolves to how they turned out. This is one of the reasons I love the Hh series, it highlights how messed up the Imperium became.

[Gree]

I would like an Ultramarines novel showcasing their way of war and culture. It will feature a Codex Astartes-type Marine force go against a Heresy era Marine force and have them win handily, showcasing the tactical flexibility that the Codex offers and why strict adherence to the Codex is a good thing. This will ideally be written by Abnett or A D-B.

 

Unfortunately with GW’s current policies concerning the Codex Astartes, this probably won’t happen.

 

read the second short story anthology in the HH series, it has an excellent shor piece about how te Codex was created and it's inherent flexibility.

 

That’s exactly the short story I’m criticizing actually. It is not portrayed as something flexible or helpfull. It’s a magic formula that lists out a step by step guide to fight a war, a set of steps and tactics that the Marine Commander did not even really understand the ultimate objective of.

 

Perhaps the most hurtful part is at the end when Guilliman himself shows up and states that the Codex is not to be followed strictly. Which is basically saying the Ultramarines chapter is wrong. Let me put it like this. If you are a Space Wolf fan and GW publishes a short story in which Russ reveals that he never intended the ways of Fenris to be followed like that and the Space Wolves have been dead wrong for ten thousand years.

 

You would be rather miffed wouldn’t you?

 

Nope, i wouldn't be surprised actualy.

 

The HH is the past, 40k is the preset (as far as the game setting goes). Everything is twisted and static, the fact that the Emperor has become a God and worshiped in direct opposition to the Imperial truth he tried to create is the best way to highlight how things turned out.

 

That the Ultramarines are wrong in their single-minded devotion to the codex is of no surprise and I wouldn't be surprised if Russ had a different view of the Wolves to how they turned out. This is one of the reasons I love the Hh series, it highlights how messed up the Imperium became.

 

Well I am quite miffed. What is the main theme of the Ultramarines is now their weakness. The ways of Fenris are not portrayed as a weakness for the Wolves, the Promethan Creed is not portrayed as a weakness for the Salamanders, etc, etc.That short story in Rules of Engagement just smacks of McNeill going back to make Uriel Ventris right and the rest of the chapter look foolish.

 

And yet the Ultramarines are one of the most successful chapters in the Imperium, despite following the Codex Astartes strictly, a combat doctrine that seemingly proves counterproductive every other day. Maybe it is only due to the complete ineptitude of other chapters like that the Ultramarines still manage to be one of the most successful chapters despite being hidebound by the ‘’predictable’’ Codex.

[Eirik_Xenobane]

I would like an Ultramarines novel showcasing their way of war and culture. It will feature a Codex Astartes-type Marine force go against a Heresy era Marine force and have them win handily, showcasing the tactical flexibility that the Codex offers and why strict adherence to the Codex is a good thing. This will ideally be written by Abnett or A D-B.

 

Unfortunately with GW’s current policies concerning the Codex Astartes, this probably won’t happen.

 

read the second short story anthology in the HH series, it has an excellent shor piece about how te Codex was created and it's inherent flexibility.

 

That’s exactly the short story I’m criticizing actually. It is not portrayed as something flexible or helpfull. It’s a magic formula that lists out a step by step guide to fight a war, a set of steps and tactics that the Marine Commander did not even really understand the ultimate objective of.

 

Perhaps the most hurtful part is at the end when Guilliman himself shows up and states that the Codex is not to be followed strictly. Which is basically saying the Ultramarines chapter is wrong. Let me put it like this. If you are a Space Wolf fan and GW publishes a short story in which Russ reveals that he never intended the ways of Fenris to be followed like that and the Space Wolves have been dead wrong for ten thousand years.

 

You would be rather miffed wouldn’t you?

 

Nope, i wouldn't be surprised actualy.

 

The HH is the past, 40k is the preset (as far as the game setting goes). Everything is twisted and static, the fact that the Emperor has become a God and worshiped in direct opposition to the Imperial truth he tried to create is the best way to highlight how things turned out.

 

That the Ultramarines are wrong in their single-minded devotion to the codex is of no surprise and I wouldn't be surprised if Russ had a different view of the Wolves to how they turned out. This is one of the reasons I love the Hh series, it highlights how messed up the Imperium became.

 

Well I am quite miffed. What is the main theme of the Ultramarines is now their weakness. The ways of Fenris are not portrayed as a weakness for the Wolves, the Promethan Creed is not portrayed as a weakness for the Salamanders, etc, etc.That short story in Rules of Engagement just smacks of McNeill going back to make Uriel Ventris right and the rest of the chapter look foolish.

 

And yet the Ultramarines are one of the most successful chapters in the Imperium, despite following the Codex Astartes strictly, a combat doctrine that seemingly proves counterproductive every other day. Maybe it is only due to the complete ineptitude of other chapters like that the Ultramarines still manage to be one of the most successful chapters despite being hidebound by the ‘’predictable’’ Codex.

 

Pedictable?

 

In rules of engagement the only thing that beat the codex was a Primarch. Each and every situation had a myriad of possible solutions giving an Ultramarine the option to choose which best suited the situation at hand. i didn't see the codex as being "predictable" at all.

 

The codex is a brilliant tool and following it to the letter is NOT a weakness for the Ultramarines in the 41sy millenium. However they have become too wrapped up in it and refuse to consider anything but the codex, this does not make their way of war suddenly invalid, wrong or a mistake but it highlights how the Ultramarines have remained in stasis like the rest of the Imperium.

[Gree]

Pedictable?

 

In rules of engagement the only thing that beat the codex was a Primarch. Each and every situation had a myriad of possible solutions giving an Ultramarine the option to choose which best suited the situation at hand. i didn't see the codex as being "predictable" at all.

 

Chapter's Due

 

Sicarius looked set to spit a caustic reply, but his jaw tightened and he bowed to Tigurius.

 

“I apologise, my lord. You are, of course, correct. I am Grand Duke of Talassar, I should have been there to defend my people. I failed them.”

“We all failed them,” said Marneus Calgar. “Our enemies took us by surprise and we reacted as the Codex dictates. Perhaps that was our error.”

 

“Our error?” said Agemman. “I do not follow.”

 

“If you know both yourself and your enemy, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss,” said Calgar, quoting from the Codex Astartes. “Our enemies clearly know our methods. They know us well enough to know how we will react to any given circumstance, and what makes us predictable makes us vulnerable.”

 

Tigurius was impressed. For any Ultramarines warrior, especially the Chapter Master, to admit that their adherence to the Codex Astartes might have left them open to this attack spoke volumes of his humility and willingness to adapt.

 

“Detecting weapon level ordnance drifting in the debris clouds,” warned Vibius,

cycling through the surveyor feeds. “As per Codex manoeuvre protocols, I

recommend increasing fleet spacing, my lord.”

 

“Agreed,” said Calgar automatically. “I don’t want multiple vessels caught by

any unexploded warheads before we get there. Issue the alert, and have all captains

verify.”

 

Moments later, the blue darts moved apart on the plotter and crackling

confirmation icons flashed next to them. An Ultramarines fleet was a well-oiled

machine, one that could be relied on to function exactly in battle as it would in any

simulation or battle drill. No sooner had he formed the thought than he knew his

order was a mistake.

 

Reliable was just another word for predictable, and their foes had already shown

they knew how to exploit predictability.

 

From Calgar himself.

 

and from the same novel:

 

Honsou glanced down at the images.

The Corsair Queen’s ships ranged far ahead of the Iron Warriors vessels, recklessly dashing off to provoke the Ultramarines ships to battle. As expected, the

enemy ships had taken the bait, working to their predictable Codex. The fighting had been fierce, with the Ultramarines vessels taking out three of Salombar’s ships

without loss. Yet Salombar was no slouch when it came to void war, and her captains were fast and unpredictable.

And that played havoc with the Ultramarines’ rote battle plans.

 

“I have reviewed your deployment plans,” said Chaplain Clausel. “All is in accordance with the Codex.”

“That is what worries me,” said Uriel. “Honsou has shown us that he can think like us, and if he can think like us, he can pre-empt us.”

“You doubt the wisdom of the Codex?” asked Clausel. “I thought you had learned to trust its teachings on Pavonis. Was I mistaken?”

“No, Chaplain, not at all, but it is never good when the enemy knows how we will react to any given situation.”

And here:

 

Consequences

 

But it had taken him many months of hard fighting and harder choices to realise the truth of this. Despite the protests and outrage of Sergeant Learchus, Uriel had followed Astador’s vision quests and emerged triumphant, where a strict adherence to the Codex would have seen them defeated in the earliest stages of the war. Pulled between two opposing philosophies, Uriel had made his choice and had found the balance between following the spirit and the letter of the Codex. He knew such behaviour marked him out amongst his brethren, but his former captain, Idaeus, had taught him the value of such insights and he knew in his heart that he had done the right thing.

 

Uriel states if he followed the Codex strictly he would have lost.

 

The codex is a brilliant tool and following it to the letter is NOT a weakness for the Ultramarines in the 41sy millenium.

 

However Graham McNeill explains that following the Codex strictly is a bad thing and gives several examples in that novel.

 

However they have become too wrapped up in it and refuse to consider anything but the codex, this does not make their way of war suddenly invalid, wrong or a mistake but it highlights how the Ultramarines have remained in stasis like the rest of the Imperium.

 

 

Except the actual fluff in the Space Marine Codex refutes that and point's out it's updated:

 

The Codex Astartes further defines the tactical roles, equipment specifications and uniform identification markings of the Space Marines. These guidelines have evolved over the centuries, and the Codex Astartes of the forty first millennium is a highly developed treatise combining the wisdom of hundreds of military thinkers throughout history.

 

In order for things ot be added to the Codex, it first must be outside the Codex. We know new equipment like the Land Raider Crusader is adopted by the Ultramarines for example.

[Castiel]

:(

 

Take it elsewhere lads! ^_^

[Plaguecaster]

I reckon they need to make another Death Guard legion book but this time make it focus on either Mortarion or a member of the Death Guard who did not stay loyal to the Emperor following his Primarch showing how they became Plague Marines.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I reckon they need to make another Death Guard legion book but this time make it focus on either Mortarion or a member of the Death Guard who did not stay loyal to the Emperor following his Primarch showing how they became Plague Marines.

 

A book focussing on Typhon could be cool, how he perverted his legion and brought it to it's knees.

[Plaguecaster]

I reckon they need to make another Death Guard legion book but this time make it focus on either Mortarion or a member of the Death Guard who did not stay loyal to the Emperor following his Primarch showing how they became Plague Marines.

 

A book focussing on Typhon could be cool, how he perverted his legion and brought it to it's knees.

 

I agree after all it was mainly because of him that the Death Guard became Plague Marines

[Wrath of Terra]

I'd love to see something on Angron and the World Eaters - especially if it covers the long number of years where they went from being the crack assault legion to the go to legion to be thrown into the biggest meat-grinders other legions could find and shied away from theselves. If done well the building bitterness over how they are being treated radiating out from Angron and festering in the legion as a whole could be really fun to read.

[Castiel]

I'd love to see something on Angron and the World Eaters - especially if it covers the long number of years where they went from being the crack assault legion to the go to legion to be thrown into the biggest meat-grinders other legions could find and shied away from theselves. If done well the building bitterness over how they are being treated radiating out from Angron and festering in the legion as a whole could be really fun to read.

 

I think A D-B is doing that (or at least some Angron and WE coverage) in Butcher's Nails.

[Wrath of Terra]

I'd love to see something on Angron and the World Eaters - especially if it covers the long number of years where they went from being the crack assault legion to the go to legion to be thrown into the biggest meat-grinders other legions could find and shied away from theselves. If done well the building bitterness over how they are being treated radiating out from Angron and festering in the legion as a whole could be really fun to read.

 

I think A D-B is doing that (or at least some Angron and WE coverage) in Butcher's Nails.

 

Aye, I'd heard that but I don't think the scope is known yet and there's no certainty he's take the same one as the Word Bearers where it covers decades. From all we know it could take place post-Istvaan for e.g.

 

Either way I'm looking forward to it greatly. Loved how he portrayed Angron in Aurelian - possibly the "fairest" portrayal of him so far in some ways.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Anything that identifies what truly happened to the missing primarchs.

[calgar101]

White Scars! All the snippits about them and Khan portray them to be one bad ass legion! Ferocious warriors one and all, I want to see this! Please White Scars!

[amaze07]

Ya White Scar's would be pretty Cool!!

[Marshal Angman]

About the White Scars, anything will be nice.

However, I would like to hear more about the opinion Horus voiced in the Collected Visions: he said Jaghatai Khan could side with him eventually.

The only Legion Horus thought could still be corrupt after the beginnig of the Heresy. This could give a unique approach to the WS and an interesting set of questions to answer. Why did Horus thought Jaghatai could be more loyal to him, or at least opostunistic enough to side with him? How did the Khan react to the Heresy and why did he took the decision to remain loyal?

 

Reasons why Horus might've thought the Scars would turn:

 

- They take heads as trophies

- They have a barbaric rage that they have to keep in check, no red/black rage, but they're still warned to keep it in check & if they let it loose it leads to bad places (ie turning traitor)

 

Also as to the Khans disappearance the current line is he returned to Chogoris/Mundus Planus and found his people had been raided by DE, and went off chasing them and hasn't been seen since.

[Zeratil]

Whatever our gracious overlords give us :)

 

 

More focus on the Raven Guard and Salamanders to flesh them out a bit.

 

More appearances and bits about the Imperium as a whole: particularly Custodes, but the Sisters of Silence, Rememberances, the assorted nobility and commofolk. The Legionaries Astartes make up a tiny, tiny part of the Imperium as a whole. I want to see the realm they were created to protect and how its citizens react to all this madness. We have been given some nice bits so far (looking at you, Nemesis) but I would enjoy seeing a bit more.

 

Basically MORE! hahaha.

 

Seconded, I'm sure the Salamanders will get a book but what I'd really like to see is more of the other organisations covered. The custodes get a reasonable amount of attention throughout the series, and assassins have their own book. I suppose what I'd like to see is an anthology with a couple of short stories each for the custodes, the sisters of silence, the birth of the Grey Knights and the Inquisition, the astropaths and the navigators. My all time favourite 40k books are still the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books, just because of the look it gives you into how the 'normal' Imperium (if only a tiny part of it) operates. I'd love to see that a story that took that normal life and blew it apart with the Wrath of The Heresy. Nuthin wrong with Astartes kicking butt mind you, but we do get a lot of that.

 

Oh and more Thousand Sons. Yeah they got a 2 book series with the Wolves, but I'm greedy.

 

 

As for finding out about the missing primarchs at the end of the series? I dunno, I think it would be like finding the truth about the two missing legions, writing it down in Black Library issue stone would leave people unhappy regardless of how brilliantly written it was, it's nice to have some mystery in the setting, no matter how infuriating it can sometimes be :P

[Grimdarkness]

I'd also love to see the lion and the wolf short story made into a book. If not a book maybe have it as part of the wolf's and dark angel's flight back to terra.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

More Thousand Sons and Salamanders please!

[Grimdarkness]

If...............When the scars get there book pleas don't have them written like the storm seer in Thousand Sons.

[Crimson Hawk]

Its clear that the Codex Astartes was not designed as a restrictive and singleminded rule set. In the words of Captain Titus "The codex is a set of rules. It how we live with them that is the true test of a space marine, and you have failed, Leandros".

Note that Titus chastises the codex-worshipping Leandros, for obeying the codex in letter, not in spirit, which is how I believe Robute intended. Hopefully that will conclude the off-topic smurf-bashing

Oh, and it is scientific fact that anything in the HH McNeil writes is made of pure awesome. Ask Ahriman.

[ScottishSmurf96]

One name. SIGISMUND.

[Commander Proteus]

It seems like we're nearing the end of the Heresy, in terms of the novels, and some plot lines are closing up. The Raven Guard are pretty much wrapped up, along with the Thousand Sons. Alpha Legion will pop up...everywhere, duh, but they're done more or less.

 

I'm not sure how they would fit it in now, but I would've liked to see more of how the legions fought and worked before the heresy. How the primarchs got along, and some of the campaigns we've read snippets of. Don't get me wrong, the opening trilogy was awesome, I just think there wasn't enough of the "golden age" on offer. I'm not looking for a comprehensive history, but there has to be more than the "key elements" of the heresy.

 

Otherwise, I think we need to see some Salamanders, Iron Warriors, and White Scars get some love. And I think the Blood Angels should have more than cursory mentions and Fear To Tread as their only real fiction.

 

I'm also wondering how and when the Dark Angels fluff will wrap up. As with the rest, we know what happens, but there are a lot of cliffhangers left from Fallen Angels.

 

-Proteus

[The 13th Goat]

The Blood Angels, White Scars and Imperial Fists are at the seige, so I imagine 3 books on each prior will at least establish loyalist character for us to follow.

 

Dark Angel's will probably have their series ended after the seige, at Caliban. The Wolf's will probably get one with the White Scars during the Alpha Legion incident where they were helped by "unexpected allies". Curze will probably get one if AD-B gets his way, and I don't think they will leave the Salamander's and Vulkan unresolved.

 

So for me that's:

 

1. SW and WS book
   
2. IF book
   
3. NL book
   
4. 3 Seige books
   
5. DA Caliban
   

 

Hopefully, they also do:

 

• Salamanders
  
• Iron Warriors
  
• Iron Hands