2500 Swarm is killing me

[Atlantic]

When my friend and I play 2500 this is the list he brings. (He uses the same list for 2k and 1850, with just less stuff....) I haven't beaten it yet. I have forced 2 draws.

 

2 Flying Hive Tyrants

6 zoanthropes with 3 spores

2 shrike packs, lashwhips and bone swords

60 genestealers

 

 

I try to keep a balanced list rather than tailor my army to beat a particular foe. It has served me well till now...

 

I play mechanized with a bit of DOA

 

Mephiston

10 man assault pack (2 m guns, ppistol, pfist)

5 man assault pack (pw/hflamer, flamer)

 

3 5 man assault squads with no jump packs (2 are packing ppistol/mguns, 1 has a pw and flamer)

They ride in 2 rhinos and a razorback with twlLcannon

 

Devastator Squad (2 lascannons, 2 plasma cannons with razorback twl l cannon)

 

10 shooty terminators with assault cannon and cyclone missle

Land Raider Redeemer (I deep strike the cyclone and a cannon)

 

2 attack bikes with multi melta

 

2 vindicators (bare bones)

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Well first off I recommend reformating your list so its easier to read.

 

So you're staring down the barrel of:

 

2 Flying Hive Tyrants

 

3 x2 zoanthropes with spore

 

6x 10 genestealers?

 

2 shrike packs, lashwhips and bone swords (How many?)

 

 

And you play:

Mephiston

 

10 Terminators, Assault cannon, Cyclone, Land raider Redeemer (Multi Melta and Extra Armour?)

 

10 man assault pack (2 m guns, ppistol, pfist)

5 man assault pack (pw/hflamer, flamer)

2x 5 man assault squad Melta, Infernus Pistol, Rhino

5 man assault squad pw flamer, Razorback, TL Lascannon

 

2 attack bikes with multi melta

 

Devastator Squad 2 Lascannons, 2 Plasma Cannons, Razorback, TL lascannon

2x vindicators

 

 

 

 

Well alright. Things to consider:

 

How and why are you deep striking the terminator weapons?

 

How is the nid player playing thats causing you trouble? Im picturing 60 Genestealers infiltrating, with the shrikes & Tyrants jumping along quickly behind? And spores drop in?

 

What do you find yourself trying that really always seems to go wrong?

[Atlantic]

You got his list dead on. The shrikes are 4 models each.

 

 

I'll re type my list for clarity

 

Mephiston

 

10 ASM - (jump packs, 2 melta guns, sgt has power fist and plasma pistol)

5 ASM - (jump packs, flamer, sgt has power sword and hand flamer)

 

5 ASM - (rhino, Meltagun, plasma pistol)

5 ASM - (rhino, flamer, plasma pistol/pw)

5 ASM - (razorback with Twin Linked Lascannon & Storm Bolter, meltagun, power weapon)

 

10 Terminators with assault cannon and cyclone missle (land raider redeemer with multi melta)

 

2 attack bikes with multi melta

 

Devastator Squad (Razorback with twin linked las cannon & storm bolter) 2 las cannons, 2 plasma cannons

 

2 vindicators

 

 

I've tried keeping everything on the table at the start, deep striking different models at different times, doesn't seem to make much difference.

 

My friend always infiltrates the gene stealers, so I'm basically surrounded by a bunch of tank popping bugs that eat my infantry in close combat. The shrikes knocke Meph down to initiative one and then he gets eaten. I never seem to have enough guns on the table to put enough of a dent in the swarm and they out match me in close combat.

 

My weakest units on the field are the jump infantry and devastators. They just get annihilated. I'm considering dropping the devs down to 4 missle launchers and dropping the las cannons on the razorbacks to heavy bolters so i can bring in a unit of scouts with sniper rifles and a missle launcher. I'm worried that will weaken my ability to kill tanks when I face other lists.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Do you keep your units in cover? The marines should be going first in this case against Genestealers.

 

You could give a full reserve a shot. All you need to do is roll onto the board and blast a few genestealers off the board. Should be alright. Vindicators should be going for the shrikes probably. Assuming they are out of cover.

 

You also have a lot more speed them him. Have you considered castling up one side and the moving flat out to the other side with all the tanks? You can move out of his assault range pretty easily.

[Atlantic]

I always move my tanks a minimum of 12 inches per turn. The most I've been able to keep him off of me is 2 turns.

 

I use the Devastators, the bikes and the vindicators to hunt shrikes. Mephiston beats the hive tyrants if they are alone or the shrikes aren't around.

 

The big problem I'm having is the genestealers. They really box me in with infiltrate, movement, running, etc. By the end of the first turn I am pretty well boxed in. They are worse in assault. Even if we attack at the same time they get 50 or 60 attacks? they produce so much rending that they just eat my squads.

 

Oh! I forgot to mention all of the 3d6 psychic tests. The shrikes, hive tyrants, and zoanthropes are all synapse creatures.... They pretty well negate Mephiston.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Im not sure thats the best move on your part. Have you considered letting the Shrikes and Hive Tyrants go for a turn or two while you focus on the Stealers? All your tanks will help you tank shock your way back out. The terminators in particular seem like a good option for scything down the stealers. They put down alot of fire and getting into combat isnt great for either side.

 

10 Genestealers is only ~30 attacks on the charge. Again being in cover will help out a heck of alot letting you go first and give them a punch in the jaw. They are basically only marines light in combat from a survival sense. Flamers will help alot too. Remember you can jump out of your transports and then speed the transports over to block off yuor units in a wall. You should be able to get down 2-3 Genestealer squads a turn if you do it right and really risk very little in doing it.

[Lanfear]

Hi mate,

 

i do not wonder why you have problems with your friends list. You are wasting potential on nearly every Unit.

 

first, the good Stuff:

Mephiston - has good punch

Vindicator - nothing to say here. he´s fast, he's good.

Attack Bikes - good. solid.

 

Rest is crap, in the one or other way. Holy :cuss, the devastors cost 260 points :P Rule Number one: KEEP IT SIMPLE. Dont wastepoints on Stuff you probably dont need.

 

l

You need some stuff to deal with hordes. Take Death Company. Death Company Dreadnought. Assault Terminators. Furioso Dreadnought, Baal Predators and so on.

 

maybe you want to give this list a try:

 

[size="1"]***************  2 HQ  ***************  
Librarian, Terminator-Armor, Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinus
- - - > 125 Points

Mephiston
- - - > 250 Points

***************  2 Elite  ***************  
Chaplain
- - - > 100 Points

Terminator-Assault Squad
5 Assault-Terminators, 2 x Lightning Claw, 3 x Hammer & Shield
- - - > 215 Points

***************  4 Standard  ***************  
Death Company
10 Man, 4 x Energy Weapon, 1 x Hammer
+ Land Raider Redeemer, Multimelter  -> 250 Pkt.
- - - > 540 Points

Death Comany-Dreadnought, Blood Talons, Stormbolter & Melta
- - - > 125 Punkte

Assault Squad
5 Space Marines, 5 x Boltpistol
+ Upgrade Sergeant  -> 10 Pkt.
+ Razorback, Lasercanon & sync Plasma  -> 55 Pkt.
- - - > 155 Punkte

Assault Squad
5 Space Marines, 5 x Boltpistol
+ Upgrade Sergeant  -> 10 Pkt.
+ Razorback, Lasercanon & sync Plasma  -> 55 Pkt.
- - - > 155 Punkte

***************  3 Sturm  ***************  
Attack Bikes
2 Attack Bike, 2 x Multimelter
- - - > 100 Punkte

Baal-Predator, Flamestormrcannon, Dozer Blade
- - - > 120 Punkte

Baal-Predator, Flamestormrcannon, Dozer Blade
- - - > 120 Punkte

***************  3 Unterstützung  ***************  
Vindicator
- - - > 145 Punkte

Vindicator, Bulldozerschaufel
- - - > 150 Punkte

Stormraven, Sync Heavy Bolter, Sync Assault Cannon
- - - > 200 Punkte


Gesamtpunkte Blood Angels : 2500
[/size]

 

Librarian with Termis and DC Dread into the Raven, rest should be clear.

[Leonaides]

Personally - I'd say ditch the Redeemer for a Crusader - have the terms and the Raider start on the board, use your RAS as a flanking screen for a strong shooting centre (I assume stealers cannot come on from your back edge? - gives you 3ft where they cannot charge you, so you should get at least 1 round of shooting in against anything - the termies and the raider ought to be good to kill ~20 stealers between them in 1 turn, then you have the rest of your army. That RAS sergeant with Plas pistol - give him a combi-flamer. Unfortunately since you're in Razors you have to get out to shoot with them - so make those shots count.

[Zagman]

I think a Furioso Dreadknought with Blood Talons or two would go along way to neutralizing those stealers, just about all of them. Make him afraid to get close to you. Then he has to bank on getting his Zoanthropes T2 withing range, making their test, hitting, and getting through Mephison's hood.

[Morticon]

A Furioso will do wonders to solve your problems. And its not going all out theme to beat like other people have suggested.

 

Id consider dropping the Landy to put it in, since those terms shooting are nice to be shooting all the time. If they were assault terms, different story.

[the jeske]

you said no tailoring , but why not buy a naked 5 man scout unit plop it down if you get to deploy them first and more or less destroy to chance to encircle anything.

 

also where are the baals ? why devs with las ? if you take 5 man squads you take razors otherwise you take 10 . shoty termis are bad . this is 2500 so you should have 6 MM attack bikes minimum.

[appiah4]

What you need is two of the following, one from the Expensive and one from the Cheap-O section. Replace the Land Raider or Mephiston with these.

 

Expensive:

Death Company Dreadnought, Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer

Furioso Dreadnought, Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer

Baal Predator, Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Flamer Sponsons

 

Cheap-O:

Furioso Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer

Predator, Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons

 

Those stealers will have a very hard time against any of these, then you can concentrate on the bigger nids.

 

Also, one note about the Terminators; try not to mix/match the weapons; go for 2 CMLs or 2 ACs.

[Atlantic]

I've used the vehicles as screens before so that I can kill the genestealers. It is effective at removing the stealers, but usually results in me not moving a whole lot for a couple of turns which has hindered me quite a bit in objective games.

 

I get what you guys are saying about swapping different models in, but I'm playing with what I have now.

 

The Devs are not 260 points. It is a 5 man squad. They are sitting at 170. I've considered sticking 4 missle launchers in the squad to make them cheaper, but with the number of Land Raiders and bikes I run into the las/plas cannons are sort of an insurance policy.

 

I was hoping the Land Raider would be a hard counter to the stealers as they can't even glance it, but it is getting nuked by the thropes or Hive Tyrants.

 

The next models to purchase on my list are Dante and a Furioso Dreadnaught with Blood Talons.

 

I can tell you what else I have in my box if you want to make suggestions based upon what I have.

 

In addition to the list I supplied before.

 

I have about 20 regular marines with bolters, half are painted dark so they could be used as DC.

1 dreadnaught with storm bolter, ccw, multi melta.

6 Missle Launchers, 2 Plasma Guns, 2 more flamers,

10 scouts w/ sniper rifles -1 scout w/ missle launcher, 1 scout w/ Heavy Bolter,

2 marines with heavy bolters, 1 with Multi Melta

1 black reach captain

1 chaplain with bolt pistol

1 apothecary/sanguinary priest

1 standard bearer

1 librarian

1 librarian w/ jump pack

5 lightning claw terminators

1 shooty terminator with heavy flamer

5 or 6 assault marines with jump packs and plasma pistols

 

I think that about covers it. I want to keep my ability to pound tanks, but my buddy's list is driving me nuts.

[spu00sed]

Apart from the 'thropes and flyrants his entire army dies to bolter fire.

 

What are the flyrants armed with? Are they CC or the standard dakka flyrant with two dual devourers?

 

Missiles will be useful to remove the flyrants and instant gib the 'thropes and shrikes.

 

I would swap the devs to missile launchers and take a tactical squad or two.

 

A dread will also be useful to take apart anything apart from the flyrant. Even a rifleman can be used to pin the shrikes in combat

[Atlantic]

tyrants are close combat. His whole army has no shooting except for the zoanthropes.

[AbusePuppy]

Alright, the fact that you are mech BA is a major starting point for beating 'Nids. Tyranids do not like mechanized armies and they especially do not like mechanized armies that can move 12" every turn.

 

Mephiston is decent, but as you probably already know, it can be very hard to get off his abilities when Shadow in the Warp is on you. Mostly you will want to use him as a countercharge unit for when his MCs and Shrikes break into your lines- you will want to try casting Sanguine Sword, Unleash Rage, and active his Force Weapon as your three powers. Do NOT send him up against the Genestealers, they will tear him up pretty badly.

 

His Zoanthropes can mostly be negated by Psychic Hoods- you already have Mephiston for that, but it wouldn't be terrible to take a regular Librarian as well, just to make sure. (You can only use one Hood to try and counter a power, but having two insures that he can't get rid of one.) Shield of Sanguinous is also helpful for shaving off a few more of those S10 hits. Zoeys are extremely weak in assault, so once they've landed, send a small squad over to bang faces with them and you should take them down within 1-2 turns.

 

Genestealers are pretty strong in a fight, but they have three major weaknesses: first of all, cover. They have no grenades and rely on striking before opponents to do damage, so if you can make them charge into cover, you can often win the fight. Second, transports. Genestealers are pretty weak against transports, which they can't reliably do anything to. Make sure your tanks are moving 7"+ when the 'Stealers get near and you'll find it's pretty hard for them to hurt you. Third, walkers. This relates back to #2 as well, because it's the same issue: they just can't break through AV. So if you can get a Dread into combat with them, you can usually wipe out the squad.

 

Also, I'm assuming he infiltrates his Genestealers as far forward as possible; you can counter this by setting one or two tanks (Baal Predators work well here) forward of the rest of your lines, "pushing" his Genestealers back away from most of your units. On your first turn (or on the Scout move, for Baals), you pull the tanks back, giving you some extra breathing room.

 

Flyring Tyrants are pretty strong fighters, but they are expensive and it can be very difficult for him to get a cover save. Aim your heavy guns at him and you'll find those Tyrants going away very quickly.

 

Your mix of jump marines and mechanized units is a little awkward, but workable. Use your vehicles as a screen for your jump units, which can fly over them to hit him back when he is forced to charge your tanks. Again: Tyranids hate vehicles. They're bad at getting through them and his list is especially bad because he has no Hive Guard or other strong fire support. (Zoeys are good, but six at 2500 is pretty weak.) Force him to deal with your tanks before he can get to your other guys and you'll find that he struggles a lot more.

 

TLLascannon Razorbacks aren't horrible, but Lascannon/TLPlasma will do an excellent job of gunning down his Tyrants as he gets close, so I might recommend them. TLAC can also work and has a bit more utility against other units, though at the cost of being as good against monstrous creatures. I wouldn't bother with Storm Bolters on any of your tanks, it really doesn't add very much and the points can be better used elsewhere.

 

Missiles are the best gun for Devastators, hands down. Lascannons are a bit too pricey (15pts for +1S isn't that good), Plasma Cannons simply don't have much place against most armies. That change alone will give you a huge improvement against him, as Tyranids really don't like the numbers on the Missile Launcher.

 

Terminators are fine, but there are a couple problems. For one, it is illegal to Deep Strike half the squad and put the other half in a transport, because when a unit is in reserves, it cannot be split into Combat Squads. (You can split up when you arrive, but you must declare for the whole squad whether they are Deep Striking or not when you place them in reserves, and likewise whether they are riding in a transport.) Second, the Assault Cannon is a middling weapon, though not terrible. If you have a Cyclone Missile Launcher, I would use that instead; if not, don't worry too much about it. A lot of his models will murder Terminators pretty badly in close combat, so you don't actually have very many good targets for them in melee; their shooting, however, can be reasonably effective against the Genestealers. For that reason their transport will end up being somewhat superfluous.

 

Plasma Pistols are extremely mediocre and I would trade them out wherever possible. Infernus Pistols are the same price and a lot more useful- I would recommend replacing/asking opponents to let you proxy them. (If you don't happen to own half a dozen Infernus, and I wouldn't be surprised, a piece of plastic rod with holes drilled into it and glued to the end of a Bolt Pistol makes a very servicable conversion.)

 

The Rhinos with five-strong squads inside are kind of a waste. You generally want a Rhino either for its fire points (on shooty units) or larger capacity (on melee units.) Converting them over to Razorbacks would be best (you can even leave them magnetized/unglued so you can swap back and forth), although that isn't particularly cheap, since the turret kits for for ~$12. If proxying is at all allowable, that might be necessary.

 

Given your collection (and assuming the ability to buy a few things), here is what I would do:

 

2405pts

Librarian (Shield, Lance or Sword)

10 Terminators (Cyclone, AC)

5 Assault Terminators (LC) (LR Crusader w/Multimelta, Extra Armor)

1 Sanguinary Priest

10 Assault Marines (2 Meltagun, Infernus, PFist)

10 Assault Marines (2 Flamer, Hand Flamer, PWeap)

5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Infernus) (Razorback w/LasPlas)

5 Assault Marines (Meltagun, Infernus) (Razorback w/LasPlas)

5 Assault Marines (Flamer, Hand Flamer) (Razorback w/LasPlas)

1 Attack Bike (Multimelta)

1 Attack Bike (Multimelta)

5 Devastators (3 Missiles)

5 Devastators (3 Missiles)

That should leave you with a little under a hundred points to play with, though you should double-check my math. Mephiston has been removed, but if you're in love with the guy, you could drop a few things and add him back in. I intentionally avoided specializing you too much against the Tyranid army- I'm a firm believer that a good take-all-comers list can handle anything if you design it right. If you decide not to take Mephiston, a Dreadnought with MM/HF would not be a bad option, although not amazing against most armies, either. Adding a Lascannon to each of the Dev squads to round them out could work (though I normally abhor mixing weapons), and adding a second Sanguinary Priest to babysit the Devastators would also be excellent. Adding another Librarian with Jump Pack could be very workable as well (Unleash Rage + Shield or Unleash + Sword would be good choices for him.) You could also give the Devastators a ride again for extra firepower and mobility.

 

In terms of tactics, you're basically building a wall of tanks between yourself and him and shooting, shooting, shooting. Try to bring down the Tyrants first, as I assume he has given them Old Adversary, which grants rerolls in combat to all nearby units. Your Devs and LasPlas Razors will be excellent here, and the Terminators can add a bit of shooting as well if you have one nearly downed. Keep the Terminators on foot where they can use their Storm Bolters to maximum effectiveness against the Genestealers- every casualty you cause before he arrives at your lines makes things a little bit easier. The jump pack marines should hang out behind other stuff, ready to move in for the assault or to use their Meltaguns on pesky targets like the Shrikes and Zoanthropes, neither of whom is a big fan of S8 weapons. Otherwise keep them behind some difficult terrain so that the Genestealers can't easily reach them, as explained earlier. The Lightning Claw Terminators are not ideal, and I wavered on them quite a bit- you might be better off running eight or so Death Company guys with a Chaplain to lead them. DC are much better than Terminators against Genestealers, but the Termies are better against many other targets. (If you had any Thunder Hammers, I would recommend including two of them in the squad.) The Sanguinary Priest should hide in a transport, giving his aura to as many models as possible. If you have a second one, he can be in the Land Raider he can also get a ride if you aren't worried about your Devs being shot at much. The Attack Bikes are basically just because they're useful in other matches; in this one, they buzz around and annoy MCs by pipping away. Don't forget that TLBolter shot you also get!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Cool list Puppy. I like it

 

If he does have a hundred points left I would suggest that adding a 2nd attack bike to bother the attack bike squads would probably be the best move IMO. That or finding 5pts and grabbing Corbulo :3

[Atlantic]

Wow, Thanks Very Much for the advice.

 

I'm going to apply it to my list and do some tinkering. I try to stay away from proxying models as it gets really confusing. I also do not have the Las/Plas turrets for the razorbacks.

 

I do have heavy bolters though, so I could conceivably put 4 rbacks on the field 2 with las cannons, 2 with h bolters.

[Atlantic]

I'm playing my friend tonight after work so I don't have time to change up any models before the game.

 

I like the list you put up alot puppy and I am going to work toward it.

 

For tonight, what do you think of this?

 

(The Storm Bolters are attached to the rhinos, I'm hesitant to cut them off just yet)

 

Meph

Assault Squad x 10 (Jump packs, sgt - ppis/pfist, 2 mguns)

Assault Squad x 5 (Jump packs, sgt - pw/hflamer, flamer)

Assault Squad x 5 (Razorback, sgt - pw/ppis, flamer)

Assault Squad x 5 (Razorback, sgt - ppistol, mgun)

Assault Squad x 5 (Razorback, sgt - pw / combat shield, m gun)

Death Company x 7 (Land Raider Redeemer)

Terminators x 10 (Cyclone Missle, assault cannon)

Sanguinary Priest

Attack Bike w/ multi melta

Attack Bike w/ multi melta

Devastator Squad x 5 - 3 Missle Launchers

Devastator Squad x 5 - 3 Missle Launchers

Razorback - Storm Bolter & Heavy Bolter

Razorback - Storm Bolter & Heavy Bolter

Razorback - Storm Bolter & TWL Las

Razorback - Storm Bolter & TWL Las

Land Raider Redeemer w/ Multi Melta

 

 

Incidentally, my friend is bringing 1850 worth of Tau tonight as well. What do you think of this list?

 

 

Meph

Assault Squad x 10 (Jump packs, sgt - ppis/pfist, 2 mguns)

Assault Squad x 5 (Jump packs, sgt - pw/hflamer, flamer)

Assault Squad x 5 (Razorback, sgt - pw/ppis, flamer)

Assault Squad x 5 (Razorback, sgt - ppistol, mgun)

Assault Squad x 5 (Razorback, sgt - pw / combat shield, m gun)

Death Company x 3 (Rback)

Terminators x 5 (Lightning Claws, Land Raider Redeemer)

Attack Bike w/ multi melta

Attack Bike w/ multi melta

Devastator Squad x 5 - 3 Missle Launchers

Devastator Squad x 5 - 3 Missle Launchers

Razorback - Storm Bolter & Heavy Bolter

Razorback - Storm Bolter & Heavy Bolter

Razorback - Storm Bolter & TWL Las

Razorback - Storm Bolter & TWL Las

Land Raider Redeemer w/ Multi Melta

 

1855 Leaves me 5 points over

[AbusePuppy]

Wow, Thanks Very Much for the advice.

 

I'm going to apply it to my list and do some tinkering. I try to stay away from proxying models as it gets really confusing. I also do not have the Las/Plas turrets for the razorbacks.

 

I do have heavy bolters though, so I could conceivably put 4 rbacks on the field 2 with las cannons, 2 with h bolters.

 

LasPlas turrets are actually fairly easy to convert from TLLas- you mentioned having some extra Plasmaguns (and if you decide to take my advice, you'll have an abundance of Plasma Pistols), which can be used to replace half of the TLLas turret without much trouble. However, as a stopgap measure, running the TLLas is perfectly acceptable; I do not like the TLHB variant, virtually anything else is preferrable, even a Rhino, since the Rhino is at least cheaper and has fire points. That may just be my personal prejudices speaking, though.

 

snip list

 

First thing- get rid of those Plasma Pistols as soon as you can. It's a huge number of points that aren't doing much for you (and sometimes even hurt you.) Infernus Pistols can be worthwhile, but if you don't want to convert those, just downgrade to the basic Bolt Pistol rather than keep the Plasma. Combat Shields are also pretty bad and should be avoided.

 

If you're running Death Company, you need a Reclusiarch or Chaplain to go with them. Without one, they are merely okay; with one, their charges are devastating.

 

You have the LR Redeemer listed twice- is this because you're taking two of them, or just an accident? If the former, you don't really have any other units that are worth sticking inside it (the Terminators don't count), so I would drop that for some other stuff.

 

Other than that it's looking pretty okay. Much more coherent than your original version and, I think, keeps reasonably in line with what you're looking to do.

 

list #2 vs Tau

Other than the same small problems as the your other list, that looks pretty acceptable. HB Razors are better against Tau, where you're often just looking to force morale checks and let them flee off the table, but I still don't like those Storm Bolters. I understand your reluctance to remove them, but every point you save brings you closer to adding more "good stuff" to your list. If, for example, you removed the Storm Bolters, the Combat Shield, and the Plasma Pistols, that leaves you with enough points to expand your five-strong jump marines squad to a full 10man; scrape up five more points and you can give them that second Flamer. That's doubling the threat of one of your useful units (or taking a second 5man jump squad to add another threat!) instead of some mediocre shooting that you often won't get to use because you're shooting at armored targets, shaken/stunned, or moving Flat Out.

 

Oh, and that baby Death Company squad probably needs to go. Trade them for... basically anything else.

[Atlantic]

I appreciate your advice and the time you are taking to provide it.

 

Couple quick thoughts.

 

Listing the Land Raider twice is a mistake, i just put it in parentheses to show which unit i used to purchase it. It is just one land raider.

 

As the baby death company squad goes, i just stuck it in the 1850 list for so i could squeeze the 4th razorback on to the table. I think I could forget about the razorback and small dcompany squad and fit my dreadnought in.

 

I have 5 jump pack assault marines with chainswords and plasma pistols. Is there an easy way to convert them to infernus pistols?

 

I'm really tempted in the future to stick Dante with a squad packing 3 of them and dropping next to my buddies hive tyrant..

[AbusePuppy]

Plasma -> Infernus is a little bit tricky because of the distinctive "plasma cowling" on the back of the pistol; depending on how much you want to cover that up, it can be easier or harder. The simplest solution involves cutting away the forward part of the Plasma Pistol (the "barrels" and housing, after the vertical division) and using a small piece of plastic rod with holes drilled in it in the sides (to represent the slits on a melta barrel) and in the front (for the barrel of the gun itself). Glue that to the front of your pistol and voila- you're done.

 

Now, if you're looking for something a little better looking and you have some greenstuff, you can apply a layer of it over the plasma coils to conceal them and them form a small "bump" of roughly cylindrical shape to form the tank that hold the melta ammo; it may be helpful to have a picture of an Infernus Pistol or Meltagun nearby when doing this, to get the approximate look right.

 

If you just want to get the Razorback in the list, buy it as a transport for one of the Devastator squads; three DC simply isn't much of a threat to anything.

 

Dante, in larger games, can be a pretty handy dude, but he's much more effective with Melta than Plasma, since Melta really cares about that double-pen distance. He also really wants you to be bringing some Sanguinary Guard to the game to take advantage of his ability to make them scoring, since otherwise he's not a whole lot better than any regular dude. If you're looking to bring a scary plasma surprise from the skies, an Honor Guard with Jump Packs and four Plasmaguns is not exactly cheap, but will generally vaporize a nearby heavy target when they arrive; I've used it to good effect a number of times. In a pinch, they can also hose down the rear armor of a tank with S7 shots.

[Brutis]

I don't see it. Maybe its me I'll admit. How is he mowing the hoard with that list? He's got some good mc killing weapons but not enough shots to thin the herd. I have the same prob with my friend who plays stealer shock. Can't hide behind your tanks & shoot (los),assault troops have no range. Once the stealers hit your vehicles, it's rear armor & they die. Unless you're in cover, he kills you. I'm not flaming anyone, I need help with the same kind of issue.

[AbusePuppy]

Genestealers just aren't that scary to a mechanized army, and if you can force them to charge through cover, they become even less impressive. Focus on killing the elements of his list that are dangerous (MCs, etc) and then just use basic mech tactics to kill all the Genestealers.

 

Once the stealers hit your vehicles, it's rear armor & they die. Unless you're in cover, he kills you.

 

Move 7"+ and this isn't even slightly true. Take a look at one of the above units of ten Genestealers- on the charge, they have thirty attacks. Against a fast-moving vehicle, that's five hits. We'll tip the odds slightly in their favor and say that gives them one penetrating hit, which means they have a 1/3 chance of doing effectively nothing to the tank (weapon destroyed, shaken), a 1/3 chance of setting it up to be destroyed next turn (stunned, immobilized) and a 1/3 chance of killing it (wrecked, exploded). If that sounds scary to you, remember that this is something he's spending ~150pts on. Genestealers are bad against vehicles.

 

Stealer Shock can be a problem for some lists, certainly, but there are some simple ways to handle it. One, control the charges- if they have to go through difficult terrain, you're probably winning the combat. Two, use your mobility- BA is the fastest Marine army, so use that to buy an extra turn or two of shooting (or, if you're a melee army, to divide and conquer him.) Three, use proper deployment to deny him the ability to effectively use Outflank and Infiltrate against you. If he Outflanks, stay entirely on one side of the board, not in the center, so that 1/3 of his army will be useless against you. If he goes for Infiltrating, have those forward-deployed units to push him back and buy additional breathing room.

 

Effective use of Flamers, which the BA codex has in abundance, will also cause Genestealers to cry. Honor Guard, Baal Predators, Razorbacks, Land Speeders- all of these can make effective template delivery systems that can easily net 3-6 wounds per, which will quickly remove 'Stealer squads. Genestealers are not "horde" units, they are extremely expensive, costing almost as much as a Marine each base, so they greatly dislike taking casualties.