Argentum Tempastam

[Waerloga Aeterna]

c= Hey everybody! This is my first post here at this site, so.. I'm a little nervous. <w<;

 

The Argentum Tempastam, or Storm of Silver, is a strategy I've been mulling over for the past few days. I found out only two or three weeks ago that my most favorite army of WH40k got a codex update and made a rush to get the said codex. After going over it, my first impression was a little: meh.. But looking over it the past couple of times I found that the grey knights could become a decisive, mobile army - without transports! =o

 

The whole strategy relies upon two main things. The Grand Master's Grand Strategy (Specifically the Spear of Light strategy) and the use of personal teleporters on Nemesis Dreadknights and the use of Interceptor Squads. Now I have one Dreadknight spec'd for close combat and one other spec'd for heavy armor and troop management (as in, managing your opponents squads and tanks into little smoldering piles of.. w/e ). At the start of the battle, I always expect the worst out of my dice rolls (which is why one dreadknight is spec'd to cc) and so if I get a 1 on my d3 roll for grand strategy, I can just send my little cc suicide nuke to harass my opponents while my other troops move up the field. If i get a 2 or a three, I'll put the other knight and a squad of 10 termies out with the scout ability (knight on roll of 2, termies for 3). This way, after my initial move (from the scout rule) I'd shunt my cc knight to either the rear side of a big heavy armor unit or a pesky squad/hq and lay down some initial fire.

 

Hopefully this will send my opponent into disarray and through his movement phase not only will I see what unit his strategy is relying upon but also assault a heavy/squad (if the knight lives through to the next turn~) and even affect metagame morale/see the confidence level my opponent (the actual human playing the game) has in this battle. If he/she scoffs and remarks about my poor intellect for doing such a move I'll know that my opponent will have a bit of pride (which can be very advantageous C< ) and will change my strategy accordingly, feigning early defeat by surrendering certain objectives or making other assumedly poor choices for movement and the what not (maybe even throw in a red herring~). All in all I'll lose the big guy but will have gained some critical insight as to how my opponent is going to play and possibly have even harried his strategy or movement phase for at least one turn! Which to me is more than worth the points I'd have to sacrifice.

 

Now, while my opponent is dealing my the cc knight, I would make moves to secure objectives in which my other 10 man termie squad (divided into 2, 5 man units) can get to in one or two turns. All the while my Interceptors move into position where I can shunt and fire on two of my opponent's objectives and then assault them as best I can. This would probably happen at turn 5, after having whittled some of my opposition's units and armor down.

 

=w= What do you guys think? I haven't played it yet but the design seems sound enough. It's essentially trying to harass my foes as early and as aggressively as possible; All the while moving my core into position to take objectives and set traps. Advice / criticism / tips would be muchly appreciated~ =B

[Gentlemanloser]

I've yet had to play the list, but I've been planning a 2K 'Alpha Strike' list (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=234738) along the same lines.

 

Mordrak, Interceptors and a NDK. All for 'in your face' aggression.

 

The bonus is this list fits my view of the fluff, so it ticks all the boxes for me! ;)

 

(I don't see the point/purpose for PA wearing GKs that don't have a PT, and Pallies outshine Termies in every way - bar S8+ IDing weapons!)

[Waerloga Aeterna]

=o= I was actually really torn between taking Draigo so I could take the paladins but in the end it ended up being over my 2000 point limit for what I wanted to do.

 

I started off with the concept of 2 cc Dreadknights with personal teleporters and two 10 man squads of Interceptors that I would divide into a total of 4 5 man squads of shunters. I would get my dreadknights scout and begin the game doing what I could to make my opponent go into a defensive position/concentrate on remobilizing his army whilist my interceptors ease up behind their army and my troops choice grab some objectives. I ultimately went to 2 dreadknights with teleporters, 2 8 man squads of interceptors (giving a couple of them some falchions) and two 10 man teams of termies. Oh and a Grand Master. Putting my points at 2001 (My buddy said he'd allow it c= ).

 

I know the paladins would be great instead of the terminators but I need some points freed up to have them as troops. They cost 15 points more (worth it I know) to field than the termies. ;~; I'm just stuck between a rock and a hard place on this. Should I just shave a dreadknight off and go with the pally suggestion, do you think?

[Something Wycked]

First up, welcome to the B&C brother!

 

Secondly, you're treading effectively the same path I am :D I call it "Zero Day" but its the same idea. I'm writing up a tactica about how to play aggressively with Grey Knights and put the hurt on your opponent in the first turn. I'd welcome your ideas into the tactica as well ^_^

 

For me personally, Terminators are extremely overpriced. That said, I'm a shooting-oriented player so the Terminator's advantages in CC aren't advantages for me. My CC rolls and armor saves with Terminators (and only Terminators) skews my opinion, though ;) What that means to me is I'd take Strikes in place of the Termies or Paladins and save points that way for other advantages.

 

But Pallies are incredibly powerful, especially when compared to Terminators. The problem is: are they more powerful enough to justify the loss of a DK from the table?

[Waerloga Aeterna]

First up, welcome to the B&C brother!

 

Secondly, you're treading effectively the same path I am :D I call it "Zero Day" but its the same idea. I'm writing up a tactica about how to play aggressively with Grey Knights and put the hurt on your opponent in the first turn. I'd welcome your ideas into the tactica as well ^_^

 

For me personally, Terminators are extremely overpriced. That said, I'm a shooting-oriented player so the Terminator's advantages in CC aren't advantages for me. My CC rolls and armor saves with Terminators (and only Terminators) skews my opinion, though ;) What that means to me is I'd take Strikes in place of the Termies or Paladins and save points that way for other advantages.

 

But Pallies are incredibly powerful, especially when compared to Terminators. The problem is: are they more powerful enough to justify the loss of a DK from the table?

 

c= Hello and thanks for the welcome!

 

=o= I read your topic (the first post at least) and I have a new idea for this now. Looking back at the codex, the Interceptors are definitely more of a shooty than an assault type squad. Because of the combat squads special rule, you could even divide your possible two shunty/shooty PA'd units into more focused roles such as making one of the combat squads of a unit take both of the psycannons and the others either keep their basic equipment or change them out to be cc beasts (with the falchions or halberds) to either help protect the psycannon squad or charge headfirst into assault after the shooty squad trimms the target down.

 

As for the dreadknights, I'm seriously torn between dual doomfists or a greatsword. but I'll keep them focused on cc and keep with the original plan from before.

 

The only thing i'm not totally sold on is HQ and troops. I definitely want a GM or someone with grand strategy but does that mean a vanilla GM and vanilla strike squads? Seems like I should and just keep the points cost down. This way they can scout and the 'core' part of the army can proceed relatively unhindered to the first objectives. Maybe then I should outfit the GM with the Psilencer, so as to help mow down retreating or quartered squads.

 

I'm coming from an Eldar background (my second favorite army in 40k) so its almost habit to focus squads on specific things and get them to work together (somewhat) perfectly.

 

I'm going to retweek my list and I'll get back to you on the results. c= Thanks for your feeback~

[Waerloga Aeterna]

All right, I've revamped it and it seems even better than before. (If i'm not allowed to double post, I'll merge this one with my previous post =n=; )

 

First and foremost, the HQ and Troops. 2 Vanilla Strike Squads (divide them into an effective 4 5 man squads if necessary at start of game) and a GM with psilencer, blind and psychotroke grenades.

 

Then you have 2 Dreadknights with personal teleporters.

Then you got 3 10 man squads of interceptors armed with two psycannons and 4 others armed with a pair of falchions. When dividing these into combat squads, I'll be placing the justicar with my falchion dudes.

 

Then its just a matter of fire and assault spam from the 6 squads of interceptors against an enemy already (or rather hopefully) engaged with my Dreadknights. All the while the core (HQ and Troops) are advancing through the battlefield picking up objectives. All for 2000 points too~ =D

[number6]

Welcome aboard! :)

 

Whenever I hear about players wanting a lot of mobility, speed, and "in your face" GK action, I actually think of this interesting hammer-spamming interceptor-based army list.

 

HQ

[100 pts] Brotherhood Champion

 

Elite

[116 pts] Techmarine, conversion beamer, 2 servo skulls

[116 pts] Techmarine, conversion beamer, 2 servo skulls

[113 pts] Techmarine, conversion beamer, servo skull

 

Troop

[235 pts] 10 Strikers, 2 psycannons, halberd, justicar w/hammer

[235 pts] 10 Strikers, 2 psycannons, halberd, justicar w/hammer

[110 pts] 5 Strikers, psycannon

 

Fast Attack

[325 pts] 10 Interceptors, 2 psycannons, halberd, 3 hammers, justicar w/master-crafted hammer

[325 pts] 10 Interceptors, 2 psycannons, halberd, 3 hammers, justicar w/master-crafted hammer

[325 pts] 10 Interceptors, 2 psycannons, halberd, 3 hammers, justicar w/master-crafted hammer

 

Total: 2000 pts

 

Attach techmarines to combat squads of Strikers in your deployment zone, send everybody else forward. I wouldn't usually combat squad the Interceptor units, but that is a distinct possibility.

 

Just another way to look at the GKs to get your creative juices flowing. :)

[Waerloga Aeterna]

I seriously didn't realize the techies could take those conversion beamers. That really solves a lot of problems I was foreseeing (mainly armor as 5th seems to be drifting that way from what I'm seeing). Gah. I really want that scout rule though.. ;w; I have to go through again and tweak the list again. I'm also starting to consider Maybe a Librarian too..

 

Gah.. so many nifty toys in this new codex.. Its making my head spin.

 

But, to stay with the initial Blitz strategy, I need to stay focused on quick, fast action.

 

Ok. So what if we drop the DKs and try to fit in those techies. Since they'll attach to the strike squads (which will be towards the back of my army) I should be able to pull off a couple of ap 1 shots on some armor that I know will prove to be a problem for my interceptors.. I also think taking the halberds instead of the hammers might be a better choice for a fast attack strategy - lay in some s4(possibly 5) hits at i6 seems a little better than s8(it doubles right?) i1 hits; which granted will slow them (the foe) down - but NEXT assault (I haven't really ever liked the hammers, they look uber cool but their rules [to me, at least] suck.). This way I can hopefully whittle down their forces before the counter attack that assault.

 

=o= I haven't worked out the numbers yet but I have a game against 1k sons tomorrow (as in, saturday - today-ish), so I'll be up late trying to make the best of the GK.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thing is brethren, you don't even need 'Scout' to make this work. Lets go all out crazyface and shunt as much insanity into enemy lines as possible. Behold!

 

HQ:

 

Librarian w/stave, 'Might', 'Sanctuary', 'Shrouding', 'Quicksilver'

(205 points)

 

Elite:

 

Vindicare Assassin

(145 points)

 

Troops:

 

(2) Justicar, 2 x Knights w/psycannons, 7 x Knights

(220 points each)

 

Fast Attack:

 

(3) Justicar w/hammer, 2 x Interceptors w/psycannons, 7 x Interceptors

(290 points each)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(3) Dreadknight w/greatsword, heavy incinerator, teleporter

(260 points each)

 

Total: 2,440 points

 

Got 60 points to spend on additional gear, dunno where you would put it though (maybe drop something else and buy Rhinos for the Strike squads). Heavy psilencers for lulz?

 

Bascially, deploy the Strikes up forwards so they're already in mid-field, then shunt like ninja's into the enemy's face with everything else. 30 Marines and 3 monsters is a big ask, even for IG gunline or Razorspam lists, so whatever survives is going to pulverise face. Librarian chills with the Strike squads (or runs behind their Rhinos if you take them), casts 'Shrouding' and 'Sanctuary' for defense, boosts them with 'Quicksilver' and 'Might' when he needs to.

 

Oh, and protip: don't take Mordrak. He's got nothing to do with alpha-strike lists, he belongs in either narrative missions or in Deepstrike lists (where he can place a Librarian teleport homer accurately for everything else to land off).

[Vindicatus]

Long time, no post.

 

First off, just like everyone else here, greetings and welcome!

 

In looking at your list, or at least your ideas, I might want to point out that GK are still very much an 'elitist' army (think High Elves of WH Fantasy). Expensive and specialized to certain battlefield roles. That's not to say that you can't make a unit fit the role, but one wouldn't want to have a Purgation unit charge out of a perfectly good firing position to start beating people down with their cannons, eh?

 

As I said, GK aren't one-trick ponies, and still have plenty of nasty surprises to ensure you keep your enemies on your toes. Much of your list really depends on your play-style and what you want to do. Lately I've taken two ideas to hear: 1) much to the admiration of others here on the board, I like to get in my enemy's face as soon as possible in order to deny them the ability to utilize key terrain to their advantage (my Mordrak 'rock wall' approach) or 2) the ever coveted, much hated Draigowing deathstar. Others still go for shooty-type armies (here's where you'll see lots of triple-psyflemen Dreadnought lists), the fast attack and armoured support (Stormravens and Dreadknights). At the same time, what you want your list to do also has to take into account the types of opponents you usually face. I lucked out, in that almost 80% of the players at my gaming venue field daemons (and Khornate daemons at that).

 

Now, hammers. Slow, unhelpful on the charge, and really only serving one purpose : to hurt. I can understand your distaste for them but hear us all out when we say that the number one GK vulnerability is getting tarpitted by something that you have little hope of hurting otherwise. It's not so much prevalent now that the entirety of GK units are fearless as you can always run away (but again, that might just run you right off the board), so I like to sprinkle in a little pain into the mix to ensure that, if that defiler managers to stomp it's way over and slam a unit in the back, that there will be something in that unit that stands a damned good chance of doing something right back. I like to think of them as the 'just in case'. Better to have (and subsequently laugh when you pulp an opposing sergeant's head) and not need, rather than need and not have.

 

Halberds have their place, I will agree, but having to pay out the nose for them on the wrong unit will hurt you more than help. Are you facing orks? Guardsmen? Halberds become a waste besides a few cases, since you'll almost assuredly be striking first. Are you taking terminators? Throw in a few halberds (hey, they're free!), but keep a few swords as well for when you get up close and personal. I'm not biting my nails quite so much when I'm rolling a 4+ rather than a 5+ on those swordsmen, due to the special rules for the swords. Toss in a hammer, and you've got enough variety to ensure that at pretty much every phase of combat, you'll be laying hurt in on someone.

 

Anti-tank? GK probably have some of the most viable sources of anti-tank of any army (sans Guardsmen, those pie-plate laying.. :P ). Psycannons, statistically, have more of a chance of smacking around a tank than a lascannon does, and you can take between 2-4 per squad. Throw in a vindicare (or, as you like, Tech-marines), and armoured units will have to pay a little more attention to the sort of cover it's hiding behind.

 

I don't want to try to dissuade you from one strategy or unit type over another. As with anyone here, I'm only trying to help you get a grasp for all the ridiculous amounts of information this new codex put out for us to use. Most important thing to take away from it is, do what's fun for you. That's what it's all about in the first place.

 

Have fun!

[Waerloga Aeterna]

@Reclusiarch: {

 

=o= ... That list is like.. sex on a plate with a side of ranch dressing. Absolutely what I was looking for. Though in the upcoming battle with my buddy, we're sticking to 2000 points so I'll shave a little off the top. Perhaps that list should be called 'Shunt Storm'. Heh heh. I'll use this today and report how it works.}

 

@Vindicatus: {

 

You're absolutely right. I never really thought of the hammers like that and now I'll take at least one in any of my squads that assault a whole bunch.

 

One of the main reasons why I wanted to play GKs was because they're an elitist army. And the fluff is great too. Who doesn't get awe inspired when thinking about a small (15 men) group of knights barreling down into the black depths of the abyss to save and slay. In a 'for fun' list, I'd prolly take 5 man squads of just about each of the GKs. I love'em all and would want to go against an army three or four times my size. THAT would be fun *dreams of planetstrike battles*. But to win, I would always build a blitz type list from any codex. Its just difficult for my opponents (not too many where I am right now) to recover from; Both in game and meta-game. }

 

Thanks for all the feedback/help/tips/w-e guys. I'll post the results of the battle when I get back. Since we'll have enough time to do 2 or 3 games, I'll prolly run a 'for fun' army too (i'm using proxies until I see what kind of army I want).

[Vindicatus]

No problem WA; we're all in this together, and there are a lot of people with varying tactics that love to share stories and help make the game better and funner for you and those you play against. It's actually appreciated that you take into account some of the wisdom of the other folks here instead of being the all-too-typical "ZOMG NEW CODEX MUST POWERGAME TO ROFLSTOMP FACES" player that makes me want to start dropping cinderblocks on opposing armies. We've all been playing Daemonhunters/GK for a long time, and seeing someone new come in with that kind of attitude almost seems like a slap in the face to the glorious history of the previous codex, and I can speak for the folks at my venue who played DH/WH and subsequently the new GK...we're all a little bit protective of that memory.

 

Then again, I think powergaming is for sissies who need a gimmick to win. :P

[Waerloga Aeterna]

c= I'm usually really open to suggestions. The opinion of others always offers a fresh new insight to a situation and normally from an angle I would have never seen from where I was. And with a game like 40k, with complex (and sometimes convoluted) rules and a veteran fan-base, why wouldn't you listen to the friendly suggestions or advise of others?

 

Well, I ran the game with my buddy not but two or three hours ago and the GKs were totally smashed to pieces! xD

 

Mainly due to me though. I actually forgot about an entire movement phase 2nd turn and he got early objectives that I eventually couldn't recover from. I didn't play the grenades right, didn't play my libby right and lost all but one of my scoring units by turn 2. Don't get me wrong, it was totally fun! but I really screwed it up for my GKs to shine.

 

One thing I will say though, the hammers actually helped my units survive a little longer (one of them for about 2 whole turns! =D ) so obviously I wasn't looking at that piece of equipment right, before you (Vindicatus) came along and told me how they're normally played.

 

=x=; Oh, and I never shunted. the whole reason I made my list was to take teleporters and I forgot about them too. *sigh*

 

I think I need to play a few more lower cost games before I start thinking of grand strategies. I've been away for waaay to long. =3 So, I'll be saving this thread so I can go back and look at it after i've been properly school in the art of warcraft (er.. hammer)!

 

Thanks for everything guys!

[Vindicatus]

You know, what you're speaking of isn't all that uncommon. If you're not entirely familiar with the codex yet, you forget to do all kinds of crazy stuff. Hell, even now I forget to do something, one game or another, so I have to make little footnotes with glaring highlighters so I remember later on (Guess who's Vindicare sat in a corner and didn't fire a round for almost three turns?). Once you get into the swing of things, it'll come as second nature.

 

Good to hear that you had a better experience with the hammers! That always feels awesome, to try something new and to feel vindicated in your reasoning for trying it out in the first place.

 

Also, don't feel too bad about GK getting knocked around in an objectives game. We lack a lot of models on the table, and don't particularly shine when you've got to start camping out on objective markers. Kill-points though...with the right army (as you can attest by reading Nurglez Draigowing thread), you can run a heck of an undefeated streak. Keep your head up though; you learn from making mistakes, and learning makes you better for next time. Imagine getting to the point where you don't forget to make these critical decisions and give an opponent a run for their money. Even if you lose, it was a close game, and those nailbiters are probably the funnest times I've had on the board. :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

=o= ... That list is like.. sex on a plate with a side of ranch dressing. Absolutely what I was looking for. Though in the upcoming battle with my buddy, we're sticking to 2000 points so I'll shave a little off the top. Perhaps that list should be called 'Shunt Storm'. Heh heh. I'll use this today and report how it works.}

 

Well, I ran the game with my buddy not but two or three hours ago and the GKs were totally smashed to pieces! xD

 

Mainly due to me though. I actually forgot about an entire movement phase 2nd turn and he got early objectives that I eventually couldn't recover from. I didn't play the grenades right, didn't play my libby right and lost all but one of my scoring units by turn 2. Don't get me wrong, it was totally fun! but I really screwed it up for my GKs to shine.

 

One thing I will say though, the hammers actually helped my units survive a little longer (one of them for about 2 whole turns! =D ) so obviously I wasn't looking at that piece of equipment right, before you (Vindicatus) came along and told me how they're normally played.

 

=x=; Oh, and I never shunted. the whole reason I made my list was to take teleporters and I forgot about them too. *sigh*

 

I think I need to play a few more lower cost games before I start thinking of grand strategies. I've been away for waaay to long. =3 So, I'll be saving this thread so I can go back and look at it after i've been properly school in the art of warcraft (er.. hammer)!

 

:P Nice one man. I've been having a think, and you don't really need the Librarian. Hence, you can afford a Grandmaster. To counterpoint him (and get you some cheap default scoring units, in this case meched), take Coteaz for a good tag team. Something like this maybe?

 

HQ:

 

Grandmaster

(175 points)

 

Coteaz

(100 points)

 

Troops:

 

Justicar, 2 x Knights w/psycannons, 7 x Knights, Rhino

(260 points)

 

(2) 3 x Acolytes w/meltaguns, Razorback w/lascannon+twin plasma gun

(119 points each)

 

3 x plasma cannon servitors, 2 x Jokaero, Chimera w/multi-laser+heavy bolter

(185 points)

 

Fast Attack:

 

(3) Justicar, 2 x Interceptors w/psycannons, 7 x Interceptors

(280 points each)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(3) Dreadknight w/greatsword, teleporter

(230 points each)

 

Just under 2,500pts

 

12pts to spend, maybe give one of the Interceptors a hammer? That gets you scoring Interceptors via 'Grand Strategy', you still have awesome mid-field presence, and the Henchmen sit in the backfield, breaking Landraiders with combined meltaguns, and providing anti-monster firepower with the Razorbacks. To top it off, the servitor unit (to which you attach GM+Coteaz) can easily wipe out infantry units you de-mech with the Interceptors.