bacon2123 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 HI everyone...... Im just looking for advice on how to make GOOD blood angels army lists..... Please help me. :yes: :lol: :tu: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Buy the codex, pick the models you like, add up the points till you get to a predetermined amount agreed before the battle. Thats pretty much it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Just out of interest, what did your search bring on here bring up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacon2123 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Buy the codex, pick the models you like, add up the points till you get to a predetermined amount agreed before the battle. Thats pretty much it. I tried that, 10 death company with power swrds and jmp pcks and astorath 10 tactical wth plasma cannon + gun, sergeant has chainsword, in razorback no upgrades. Table 1/4 deployment. annihalation. vs tau razorback mves up towords tau, shoots hvy bltr. Kill like 2 guys. dth cmpny deep strikin. nxt turn blows up razorback wth railgun then shoots down tctcl mrines. next turn death company deepstrike. kill like 6 fire warriors wth blt pistols. nxt turn. death company get shot dead along with astorath. i lose....... :yes: :lol: :tu: :D :huh: :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacon2123 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 any other suggestions?????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Buy the codex, pick the models you like, add up the points till you get to a predetermined amount agreed before the battle. Thats pretty much it. :mellow: This is simplistic, but essentially the way to go. For more information, I copied this from a reply I posted to someone having a similar problem (he was building an 850-point list): If you want to run a mechanised list, then base your army around something like this: Librarian Sanguinary Priest Assault Squad - 5 Space Marines - Meltagun - Power fist Assault Squad - 5 Space Marines - Meltagun - Power fist Razorback - Dedicated transport - Heavy flamer Razorback - Dedicated transport - Heavy flamer That's 460 points, so you have 390 points left to spend. A selection of Vindicators, Predators and Baal Predators should fill that up - I'd recommend either a Baal Predator or a Vindicator plus two regular Predators. If, however, you want an assaulting, jump infantry army, base your army around something like this: Librarian - Jump pack Sanguinary Priest - Jump pack Assault Squad - 10 Space Marines - 2 meltaguns - Power fist Assault Squad - 10 Space Marines - 2 meltaguns - Power fist That's 670 points, which gives you less room to play with. Swapping the Sanguinary Priest out gives you enough points for an Honour Guard with four meltaguns plus an Epistolary upgrade for your Librarian. Point being, you should pretty much always have a solid core to your army and then see what you can fit around it. That core is almost invariably going to be made up of ten-man Assault Squads for jump infantry or five-man Assault Squads in Razorbacks for mechanised lists. You also need an HQ and the Librarian is generally your best bet at lower points levels for his versatility. A Sanguinary Priest or Sanguinary Novitiate is highly recommended for any kind of list. Kit out your Sanguinary Priest and HQ choice to suit your core troops (ie., give them jump packs for a jump infantry army or leave them vanilla for mechanised lists). Then see how many points you have left to play around with. When you've got a whole bunch more experience with your units and with building lists, you can start creating slightly more varied lists. But for starting out, I highly recommend keeping it simple and straight forward. So far as your list goes, here's some feedback. You're playing... what? 1000 points? Ok: Death Company are awesome models. They're also the most killy unit we have in the entire Codex. Nasty, nasty guys. I love them. But taking ten with power weapons and jump packs comes out at 500 points. That's precisely 50% of your entire army in one ten-man unit. Astorath is almost 25% of your points. So when you add Astorath to your Death Company, you've got 75% of your points in one unit. That's a VERY bad idea. At 1,000 points I recommend aiming for something like 20% - 25% of your points going into a unit, generally. That gives you four or five units. Much more balanced, much more tactical, much more survivable. Specifically, Astorath is way too many points for an HQ choice at 1,000 points. Look at the Librarian, the Chaplain or the Captain until you're hitting around 1,500 points. Jump packs on Death Company are generally a bad idea anyway. For the cost of four jump packs, you can get three more Death Company bodies. Eight jump packs pretty much buys you a Dreadnought. Six will buy you a bare-bones Assault Squad. They're hugely expensive. Tactical Squads are generally not a great idea for Blood Angels. I highly recommend Assault Squads. They're phenomenal and awesomesauce. We're the only Chapter who can take Assault Squads as Troops. I suggest taking advantage of that. A ten-man Tactical Squad cannot fit in a Razorback. The Razorback only has a six-man transport capacity. Deep striking is often an extremely bad idea, especially for a unit that relies heavily on getting the charge, such as Death Company - and even more so against an army that thrives on shooting, such as Tau. You land next to him, can't charge and end up getting your face melted off by his static gunline the next turn. I advise against deep striking until you've played five to ten games minimum and you've got a feel for how the army works, how the units play together and how to support anything that does decide to deep strike. You have contrasting unit-types (even though you're only playing with two units!): you have a mobile assaulting troop in the Death Company and you have a fairly static unit in the Tactical Squad. I suggest focusing on one type or the other - as I mentioned in my advice to the other guy. Pick a type of list (generally mechanised or jump infantry) and start with the basic blocks of that army type. With a mechanised force, you can expect to put maybe six tanks on the table at 1,000 points. Jump infantry can reasonably field four fully-kitted out squads and an HQ (two Assault Squads, Sanguinary Guard and Honour Guard plus a jump pack Librarian is exactly 1,000 points). Hopefully this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 any other suggestions?????????????????? Incidentally, yes: Two replies in ten minutes is pretty swift. Calm yourself, boy-o. ;) Oftentimes a thread will take a day or so to generate replies. It's not because we're ignoring you - it's because we have lives to live. (I speak, of course, about the other members. Personally, while I've heard about these "lives" that people lead, I don't know that I've ever even seen one. I'm slightly jealous. :mellow:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Buy red paint, Razorbacks predators Attack bikes DC and assault marines Paint red Buy blue paint Librarian Paint blue Buy white paint Apothecary Paint white KILL AND EAT THE ENEMIES OF MANKIND! err. I mean defeat the xenos and traitors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Buy red paint,Razorbacks predators Attack bikes DC and assault marines Paint red Buy blue paint Librarian Paint blue Buy white paint Apothecary Paint white KILL AND EAT THE ENEMIES OF MANKIND! err. I mean defeat the xenos and traitors... This, but I prefer Speeders to bikes myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I actually have both, It had been my experience, and I have seen some math hammer that convinces me bikes are more survivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacon2123 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Buy the codex, pick the models you like, add up the points till you get to a predetermined amount agreed before the battle. Thats pretty much it. :D This is simplistic, but essentially the way to go. For more information, I copied this from a reply I posted to someone having a similar problem (he was building an 850-point list): If you want to run a mechanised list, then base your army around something like this: Librarian Sanguinary Priest Assault Squad - 5 Space Marines - Meltagun - Power fist Assault Squad - 5 Space Marines - Meltagun - Power fist Razorback - Dedicated transport - Heavy flamer Razorback - Dedicated transport - Heavy flamer That's 460 points, so you have 390 points left to spend. A selection of Vindicators, Predators and Baal Predators should fill that up - I'd recommend either a Baal Predator or a Vindicator plus two regular Predators. If, however, you want an assaulting, jump infantry army, base your army around something like this: Librarian - Jump pack Sanguinary Priest - Jump pack Assault Squad - 10 Space Marines - 2 meltaguns - Power fist Assault Squad - 10 Space Marines - 2 meltaguns - Power fist That's 670 points, which gives you less room to play with. Swapping the Sanguinary Priest out gives you enough points for an Honour Guard with four meltaguns plus an Epistolary upgrade for your Librarian. Point being, you should pretty much always have a solid core to your army and then see what you can fit around it. That core is almost invariably going to be made up of ten-man Assault Squads for jump infantry or five-man Assault Squads in Razorbacks for mechanised lists. You also need an HQ and the Librarian is generally your best bet at lower points levels for his versatility. A Sanguinary Priest or Sanguinary Novitiate is highly recommended for any kind of list. Kit out your Sanguinary Priest and HQ choice to suit your core troops (ie., give them jump packs for a jump infantry army or leave them vanilla for mechanised lists). Then see how many points you have left to play around with. When you've got a whole bunch more experience with your units and with building lists, you can start creating slightly more varied lists. But for starting out, I highly recommend keeping it simple and straight forward. So far as your list goes, here's some feedback. You're playing... what? 1000 points? Ok: Death Company are awesome models. They're also the most killy unit we have in the entire Codex. Nasty, nasty guys. I love them. But taking ten with power weapons and jump packs comes out at 500 points. That's precisely 50% of your entire army in one ten-man unit. Astorath is almost 25% of your points. So when you add Astorath to your Death Company, you've got 75% of your points in one unit. That's a VERY bad idea. At 1,000 points I recommend aiming for something like 20% - 25% of your points going into a unit, generally. That gives you four or five units. Much more balanced, much more tactical, much more survivable. Specifically, Astorath is way too many points for an HQ choice at 1,000 points. Look at the Librarian, the Chaplain or the Captain until you're hitting around 1,500 points. Jump packs on Death Company are generally a bad idea anyway. For the cost of four jump packs, you can get three more Death Company bodies. Eight jump packs pretty much buys you a Dreadnought. Six will buy you a bare-bones Assault Squad. They're hugely expensive. Tactical Squads are generally not a great idea for Blood Angels. I highly recommend Assault Squads. They're phenomenal and awesomesauce. We're the only Chapter who can take Assault Squads as Troops. I suggest taking advantage of that. A ten-man Tactical Squad cannot fit in a Razorback. The Razorback only has a six-man transport capacity. Deep striking is often an extremely bad idea, especially for a unit that relies heavily on getting the charge, such as Death Company - and even more so against an army that thrives on shooting, such as Tau. You land next to him, can't charge and end up getting your face melted off by his static gunline the next turn. I advise against deep striking until you've played five to ten games minimum and you've got a feel for how the army works, how the units play together and how to support anything that does decide to deep strike. You have contrasting unit-types (even though you're only playing with two units!): you have a mobile assaulting troop in the Death Company and you have a fairly static unit in the Tactical Squad. I suggest focusing on one type or the other - as I mentioned in my advice to the other guy. Pick a type of list (generally mechanised or jump infantry) and start with the basic blocks of that army type. With a mechanised force, you can expect to put maybe six tanks on the table at 1,000 points. Jump infantry can reasonably field four fully-kitted out squads and an HQ (two Assault Squads, Sanguinary Guard and Honour Guard plus a jump pack Librarian is exactly 1,000 points). Hopefully this helps. Thnks heaps :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Dont deepstrike death company, your opponent gets to shoot them before you get to charge. 10 Death company is a lot for 1000, I can only fit in 8 at 1500, especially all with power weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darligulv Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Dont deepstrike death company, your opponent gets to shoot them before you get to charge. 10 Death company is a lot for 1000, I can only fit in 8 at 1500, especially all with power weapons. Aye Deepstriking them will just lose you X number along with the Jetpacks you bought. On the note of Death Company logistics I'd just like to throw out a thought: ----- If you take a squad of say... 9 + a Chaplain of some kind (Lem, Ast.) you really don't need to buy them all power wepons. Give 4, or even 3 or them power weapons, and I'd give you good odds on killing any non-vehicle unit you come across. ...I mean 16 power weapon attacks, re-rolling to hit and to wound at strength 5 (all on the charge of course) should be able to slaughter most things. If they can't do the job then we're down to the 20 or so regular strength 5 attacks. On top of that then you have 5-6 of them (the ones without power weapons) able to serve a secondary function as meat shields, extra wounds for the men with power weapons. Take this with a grain of salt, I'm essentially saying "waste points on extra wounds" but it can increase survivability of the core part of the unit, so that you can increase the odds that they get from point A to point B. (Especially without Jet packs). (Edited for spelling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 On the note of Death Company logistics I'd just like to throw out a thought:----- If you take a squad of say... 9 + a Chaplain of some kind (Lem, Ast.) you really don't need to buy them all power wepons. Give 4, or even 3 or them power weapons, and I'd give you good odds on killing any non-vehicle unit you come across. ...I mean 16 power weapon attacks, re-rolling to hit and to wound at strength 5 (all on the charge of course) should be able to slaughter most things. If they can't do the job then we're down to the 20 or so regular strength 5 attacks. On top of that then you have 5-6 of them (the ones without power weapons) able to serve a secondary function as meat shields, extra wounds for the men with power weapons. Take this with a grain of salt, I'm essentially saying "waste points on extra wounds" but it can increase survivability of the core part of the unit, so that you can increase the odds that they get from point A to point B. (Especially without Jet packs). (Edited for spelling) I would take this further. If you can avoid it, don't waste points on bodies without power weapons. Four or five Death Company with power weapons are easily more killy than ten Death Company without power weapons. If you want the extra bodies for ablative wounds, then it's an option - but not more than maybe one ablative wound per four Death Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darligulv Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I would take this further. If you can avoid it, don't waste points on bodies without power weapons. Four or five Death Company with power weapons are easily more killy than ten Death Company without power weapons. If you want the extra bodies for ablative wounds, then it's an option - but not more than maybe one ablative wound per four Death Company. Agreed, as I come to understand this game more, I'm seeing a balance between value of something and it's point cost. When it comes to DC and ablative wounds you have to ask yourself: Is giving them +1 wound worth the cost of an extra man? And: could those points be put to better use somewhere else in your army? 'Better use' meaning; can you make another unit more efficient at an essential job? (Tank hunting, objective holding, etc) When you really sit down and think about it, you'll find 9/10 there are more optimal ways to use your points than +1 wound, or excessive stuffing. (Like giving a Sgt a Combat Shield or some nonsense). Stuffing! That's a good term; my advice (as I am still learning) Mr Bacon, is: when building a good Blood Angels list avoid excessive stuffing. Before you think of 'those remaining 50 points' as an excuse to get 'extra stuff' think first of how to use them for necessities. That probably seems obvious to more experienced players--but sometimes it's good to hear what a lot of people do on instinct voiced outloud. =) Hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Your remaining 50 points =1 attack bike with MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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