Let me get this straight...

[Razelim]

If I don't use Citadel paints on my WH40k Figures and Terrains, my stuff will look like crap?

 

Cause I have a massive ammount of paint, but I usually buy FolkArt paint... and also have a couple of Enamels laying around.

 

I want my stuff to be able to look as well as this pic i found online:

 

BEAUTIFUL!

http://kofler.dot.at/40k/units/Space_Wolf_...rey_Slayers.gif

 

I like how detailed it is, unless there's something I'm missing (Im new to the brushing paint, tho i have a huge selection of paint that i have stored)

Thank You.

[darth_giles]

I'll be honest, it doesn't matter what paints you use (although I'd suggest you stay away from gloss enamel) as much as your skill and practice at painting. I've seen people do all sorts of things to get good results. The best way to improve your painting ability is to practice.

 

And keep a jug of Simple Green on hand in case you mess up too badly.

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

Think of it more like this: Citadel paint will always be correct for citadel models. Other paints can make your models look amazing, but you should keep a few things in mind:

 

1. Make sure the paint you're using is model grade. If you're using canvas paints, poster paint or most enamels, your models are going to lose detail and look funny.

 

2. If you do not use citadel paint, your models will not look exactly like the ones in white dwarf, codices, etc. the end result will not look exactly like, for example, space wolves grey.

 

None of this means you cannot masterfully paint your models with vallejo paint, p3, whatever the hell flames of war calls their line, and many more besides. Just be careful not to use a paint that will cause you to lose detail.

[Redfinger]

I'll be honest, it doesn't matter what paints you use (although I'd suggest you stay away from gloss enamel) as much as your skill and practice at painting. I've seen people do all sorts of things to get good results. The best way to improve your painting ability is to practice.

 

And keep a jug of Simple Green on hand in case you mess up too badly.

 

 

You know I use to feel this way...but honestly, just like you use different tools to do different things, that is the way it is with paint, different paints achieve different effects better than others. Personally using typical "craft" paints you are going to have a hard time doing wet blending and creating smooth transitions. They will be fine for table top quality, but dont expect too much out of them.

 

As my Dad use to say, "the right tool for the right job"

 

Ashton

[chromedog]

No, you don't HAVE to use citadel paint.

 

Just like you don't have to use GW's glues, or tools.

 

My preferred paints are from the Vallejo range, my brushes come from a local art store.

My tools from the local model shop and/or hardware and electronics hobby stores.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I'll be honest, it doesn't matter what paints you use (although I'd suggest you stay away from gloss enamel) as much as your skill and practice at painting. I've seen people do all sorts of things to get good results. The best way to improve your painting ability is to practice.

 

And keep a jug of Simple Green on hand in case you mess up too badly.

 

 

You know I use to feel this way...but honestly, just like you use different tools to do different things, that is the way it is with paint, different paints achieve different effects better than others. Personally using typical "craft" paints you are going to have a hard time doing wet blending and creating smooth transitions. They will be fine for table top quality, but dont expect too much out of them.

 

As my Dad use to say, "the right tool for the right job"

 

Ashton

 

I have to agree with Ashton, sorry Darth :P

:lol:

 

The pigment in paint is a certain size. Just say housepaint pigment is 1" in size [it is not, but just bear with me]

Using housepaint on your miniatures is bad. Why? Because the pigment is the wrong size for the miniature.

Imagine, instead of painting your house with 1" pigment, you use something with 1' pigment instead - you start to see it in the paint job.

Now if pigment that is too big doesn't look right in house painting, and that only has large flat surfaces, you can imagine how using paint that is not made for the job will clog up the mini.

 

I am not entirely sure what is meant by the saying "a bad tradesman blames his tools." As a tradesman, I can tell you that using the right tools for the job can make even a n00b do a job well.

 

Can you imagine a brain surgeon using a plaster trowel when cutting out a brain tumour?

Surgeon: "Gee, that tool is what made me accidentally lobotomise the patient."

Nurse: "A bad tradesman blames his tools"

Surgeon: "My bad"

:wallbash:

 

Use GW paint, if you are new to painting. I do not think GW paint is the bestest, and like the extra 50% you get from P3 paint. Vallejo also makes good paint. I have been told Reaper does too. I have enjoyed using GW paints, btw.

But when new, it is easier to do it by the book, use GW's colours when they say to. When you get a bit more familiar with painting, then branch out.

 

Young fish keep to the safe parts of the stream for a reason - it is safe. Stick with GW paints for a while and you'll grow in size and ability.

[Urauloth]

Seconding everyone else who said this: you don't have to use GW paints, but please, please only use paints designed specifically for painting miniatures.

 

when new, it is easier to do it by the book, use GW's colours when they say to. When you get a bit more familiar with painting, then branch out.

Completely agree. I recommend you familiarize yourself with the basic Citadel colour range and paint types, then look at branching out and adding colours from other ranges once you've got some experience under your belt.

[Razelim]

Thanks guys, well I'm guessing this applies to Terrains also, not just Figures? I'm actually doing my own Terrains out of everyday materials like bottles and all sort of scraps (im using alot of Foam Boards also - the black ones between 2 sheets of paper).

 

Also, what if i water down the paint? Like add a bit of water to the Acrylics?

 

Here's an image of the paints I use, the picture was taken off google, but this is exacly the same paint I have by the bunch (Name a color and I have it, lol):

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dFSNTDP4eYY/TIECKetfUoI/AAAAAAAASBI/thFyXBMjyDU/s1600/for%20gigi%20008.JPG

[Narse]

I have actually used that paint...

 

I used it for terrain and such cause I didn't want or need for it to be perfect. It's fine for learning how to dry brush and similar techniques.

 

Plan on watering it down alot if you are going to use it on minis. I'd guess maybe 2 parts water to 1 part paint from the bottle. I think for the terrain I probably went 1 to 1 roughly.

 

The only issue I had was with it leaving brush strokes which I believe is because I didn't water it down enough. I got lazy and instead just switched technique and went to a dappling system.

[Razelim]

Humm, does this also go for Citadel Paints? I see they sell the Washes, but I wonder if those same washes can be made by just watering down their Basic Citadel Paint.

 

Also... let me add something else to this, cause after doing some major readings I pretty much realized I left out the priming... seems I need to get a "Paint Blow Gun" (or what ever name for the air gun) to prime miniatures ehh? I was ready to use regular cans of spray paint that I have bought from HomeDepot.

 

Anywho, thanks guys, you dont know how much help you guys do!

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

You can use cans of spray paint, as long as they say primer, but again, GW primer (though insanely expensive) is always a safe bet because a lot of the ones from home depot are too thick and you will lose detail. Primer is important because primer is sort of like spray paint mixed with glue. It is what will allow the paints to stick to your mini.

 

The 'paint blow gun' is called an airbrush and is typically used to make really smooth transitions between colors on flat surfaces. I do not recommend using an airbrush starting out, the can is fine.

[Urauloth]

I see they sell the Washes, but I wonder if those same washes can be made by just watering down their Basic Citadel Paint.

Well you can make washes by thinning regular paint, sure, but the washes they sell use a different medium and a different kind of pigment - they're very different to a wash made by thinning regular colours and you'll often get better results with them.

 

Also... let me add something else to this, cause after doing some major readings I pretty much realized I left out the priming... seems I need to get a "Paint Blow Gun" (or what ever name for the air gun) to prime miniatures ehh? I was ready to use regular cans of spray paint that I have bought from HomeDepot.

 

GW sell cans of primer specially formulated for miniatures. They make a spraygun as well, but that's for large-scale application of paint over the primer. DO NOT use regular spraypaint, it's far too thick and will clog up the detail on your miniatures - and even if they survive that, you'll get the wrong kind of finish for applying acrylic paints to.

 

e; beaten by less than a minute haha

[Master of fact]

Iv been painting for 15 years now and use GW paint, valejo game colour. Prime your minis with regular spray paint is fine i personaly use Halfords black spray, its cheaper and you get more in it!

 

If you want your minis to look like that pic practice makes perfect BUT the best way to get started is to get some minis you love and paint neatly, forget about blending and dont dry brush (its useful but if you overuse it minis look blehhh) do block colours first, armour, skin, gun ect. Base the model using fine gravel or sand to make it look complete

 

Here is my basic mini with a painted base

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z52/masteroffact/27180039.jpg

 

Here is a more detailed mini with a sculpted base.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z52/masteroffact/IMGP1810-1.jpg

 

And when you get good you can mess about with lighting effects and stuff!

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z52/masteroffact/IMGP1233.jpg

 

What i am trying to say is the more you put into the painting the better it gets and enjoy both parts of the hobby gaming and painting. Phew!

[Commander Sasha]

I'd agree with Master Of Fact in all but one thing: don't practice on a model you love!

Start with a few throwaway models: the minipacks of 3 marines near the till in a GW branch are perfect.

 

If you love a model, you will be too careful, and stressed. Practice models won't make you feel guilty. I'd even consider buying models you definitely WON'T play, eg Chaos Marines. Similar too your Wolves, but you won't mind messing up.

 

Speak to your local gaming store: Army Painter do coloured primers, and great basing kits, cheaper than GW.

Vallejo and P3 do better paints, cheaper, and in better droplet bottles.

 

And always, always, thin your paints! A palette is handy, an old CD will do; mix a drop of paint with water 50:50, moisten the brush, and keep a tissue or rag handy for wiping excess from the brush.

 

I am not that good at painting, but the above rules have helped me immensely!

 

Good luck, and don't let fear of failure prevent you from taking risks!

[darth_giles]

You know I use to feel this way...but honestly, just like you use different tools to do different things, that is the way it is with paint, different paints achieve different effects better than others. Personally using typical "craft" paints you are going to have a hard time doing wet blending and creating smooth transitions. They will be fine for table top quality, but dont expect too much out of them.

Give a master bad tools and he'll still be able to turn out relatively good work. Sure it won't be his best, but it'll still be much better than what would happen if you gave those same tools to a novice. By the same token, a novice using a master's tools is still going to produce work that looks like a novice made it.

 

I've seen people get extremely good results using pint cans of house paint they'd color-matched to GW colors, and people get incredibly bad results using the best GW has to offer. I've seen deathwing armies that had horrible brush strokes from the days before Foundations and the GW airbrush, and I saw another one that had zero brush strokes because the guy who owned it had given them a one-coat of Testors' Desert Sand from a spray can.

 

So yeah. The tools can help, but practice and willingness to go out on a limb matters a lot more.

[red_starrise]

I will say this much, having used many different brands of paint over the years *sigh* 15 of them now, the metallics in the craft range usually suck, splurge & buy those in a good brand for sure. Also, GW paints tend to have a slicker, glossier look when dry whereas the craft paints tend to be flatter & duller when dry, usually needing a satin or gloss varnish to get that sheen you see on 'eavy metal minis. Lastly, if you want a more drabbed down gritty look, the craft paints will work. If you want that shiny fresh off the showroom floor, they will not work, easily anyway.

 

Oh & stay away from Testor's gloss spray paints as your primary color on minis, vehicles (mostly tanks) this is ok for but for infantry w/ lots of little details it's too heavy & will obscure details. But if you want shiny gold & silver their metallics work well for that so long as you don't mind dealing w/ paint thinner & ruined brushes.

[Jacinda]

Give a master bad tools and he'll still be able to turn out relatively good work. Sure it won't be his best, but it'll still be much better than what would happen if you gave those same tools to a novice. By the same token, a novice using a master's tools is still going to produce work that looks like a novice made it.

 

Well, yeah. But why stack the cards against yourself?

 

Skill is much more important than equipment in the end results but the final result is still skill + equipment. Better skill comes with time and experience and a fair bit of mother nature, too. Better equipment comes from a little cash.

 

Here is a short tutorial on painting Deathwing termmies.

http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2009/10/ho...-and-dirty.html

 

The basic idea for these is to block in the undercoat with the Folkart type paints, then washes from GW and finally highlights and details with a mix of Folkart and GW. Personally, I don't like how the craft paints feel. I have used my fair share, tho. Mostly for terrain. My advice would be to pick up some Matte Medium and mix that 1:2:1 Medium, Water, Paint and see if you can live with that. Better yet, use an old paint bottle you have cleaned out to mix Medium and water in a 1:2 ratio and add a drop of dish washing liquid. Use this to thin your paint. I think you will like the results.

 

[edit to show who I was replying to ... silly me]

[Master of fact]

Sorry dont use a model you love, not anymore anyway due to finecast being out. I meant metal figures that can be dipped. Lots of great feedback here for you, so lets see some painting!!

[Narse]

Humm, does this also go for Citadel Paints? I see they sell the Washes, but I wonder if those same washes can be made by just watering down their Basic Citadel Paint.

 

Also... let me add something else to this, cause after doing some major readings I pretty much realized I left out the priming... seems I need to get a "Paint Blow Gun" (or what ever name for the air gun) to prime miniatures ehh? I was ready to use regular cans of spray paint that I have bought from HomeDepot.

 

Anywho, thanks guys, you dont know how much help you guys do!

 

 

Folk Art stuff will look like Citadel Paints, it just won't behave 100% like Citadel Paints. Open a cap squeeze some out, it will come out as a think substance. Citadel Paint is more like soup. When you water down Folk Art paint it seems to fight the water and not want to blend into it.

1) It's just more concentrated

2) It uses a different medium to hold the pigment

 

But, it will look basically the same if you use the right techniques.

 

 

You will need to prime your pieces. I don't normally recommend it, but since your doing Terrain and if you want to use something else from the craft store you could use Gesso to prime your pieces. It's more expensive then a spray can from Wallmart, but the paint won't chip, ever... I suggest watering it down as well 1 to 1 ratio at least.

 

 

If you want tomorrow, I could put some pictures up of my finished Terrain done with craftstore paint and some figurines done with games workshop/valejo paint.

[striker8]

There's a quite a bit of confusion and miss information that's roamed about for quite along time concerning paints. I have 30 years experience in the wargaming hobby with the last 10 or so doing comission paint work ranging from table top to gamingdisplay grade and use a wide range of paints so I'll shed some light.

 

There is no one paint that people MUST use. To go along with that there is no one paint that is better than the rest on all fronts. You have to see what others have used, try multiple different ones and experiment to find what works for you.

 

It's already been said, paint is another tool you use to accomplish a task. Just like other tools some work better for certain people, projects, and techniques than others and there are degrees of quality, ease of use, and expense you have to make trade offs on.

 

Craft paint can work fine on miniatures and is probably the cheapest option but for most people it's not optimal. They tend to have rather corse pigment and the carrier medium can be rather poor, and are intended for less detail oriented crafts. There people out there that can do amazing things with craft paint on miniatures but they are rare. Now I do use craft paint myself but it's for filling in the areas that get missed when spray priming(black and white) and for basing and terrain. The price compared to the quality and ease of use for these make craft paint more than acceptable to me.

 

Artist grade paints, both oil and acrylics, have finer pigment and better carrier medium and can vary in price from reasoanble to expensive but take quite a bit of experience to learn how to work with them to do miniatures. The artist techniques they're intended for rarely entail the level of detail most miniatures require so untill you figure out such things as thinning and brush control they often obscure detail. Oil paints( Enamels are actually oils) add in the whole clean up issue as well as an extended drying time that makes blending easier but at the expense of a slower work rate as you wait for things to dry. Now you have a good number of people that win awards use artist grade paints for the variety of techniques they allow that give thos results you see. I've experimented with these and other than the use of oils for weathering effects they did not fit my style or give any benefit to cost that pushed for a more exhuastive trial.

 

The miniature paints such as those sold by GW, Vallejo, Reaper, etc, are designed for our hobby. The pigments are fine grind and the carriers are desinged for the detail we deal with. They allow a beginner to achieve decent results from the start and as you progress allow the more experienced an almost limitless range of techniques to be used. This is the largest group of paints used by miniature hobbyists from beginners to award winners just out of shear versitility. I've used all the commonly available brands as well as a number of long deceased ones and have settled into Vallejo ( both game and model ranges) as it fits my style but I still use GW (namely Boltgun, I have yet to find a metallic as good) as well as some Reaper as needed.

 

Any paint can work, only you can decide what level of useability, cost, and results are acceptable to you.

 

And since I know some one will come back with how I didn't talk about coverage I'll say it now. No matter what manufacturer or range every line will have coverage issues in certain colors. These issues get worse when the paint is thinned( if you're aiming for better than table top I hope you're thinning your paint) and you have to learn the ins and outs of that brand. Case in point I can get yellow solid and smooth in both GW and Vallejo rather quickly but it took a long time to learn how.

 

One last note, Spray primer. Take this as you will, but a true primer is not necessary for miniatures. And spray that will give you a smooth paintable surface will do just fine. We're not painting things exposed to the elements and extreme abuse so expensive primer is just not needed. I've used 97 cent Wally World flat black sray paint as primer for at least 10 years and it does just fine.

[striker8]

Thanks guys, well I'm guessing this applies to Terrains also, not just Figures? I'm actually doing my own Terrains out of everyday materials like bottles and all sort of scraps (im using alot of Foam Boards also - the black ones between 2 sheets of paper).

 

Also, what if i water down the paint? Like add a bit of water to the Acrylics?

 

Here's an image of the paints I use, the picture was taken off google, but this is exacly the same paint I have by the bunch (Name a color and I have it, lol):

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dFSNTDP4eYY/TIECKetfUoI/AAAAAAAASBI/thFyXBMjyDU/s1600/for%20gigi%20008.JPG

 

Craft paint is fine for terrain as well as basing. I have a few of the colors in your picture for those purposes. For me it makes economic sense since I don't need the properties of my $3 a bottle main paint so use a bottle of something containing 100 times as much that's a $1.

[appiah4]

I use FolkArt craft paint for all my model painting and they are great, especially the Artist's Pigment range.

Ron of From the Warp also uses these and the Apple Barrel craft paints, and he's a great painter.

Here are some models I recently painted using this range:

Citadel's paints are horribly overpriced, and offer only marginally better quality. I use their washes and some Foundations paints though.

[darth_giles]

Just curious, can you use those Folk Art paints thru an airbrush?

[Razelim]

@striker8 - Thanks, you inspired my search, I started feeling like buying expensive paint was like buying a Harley Davidson... yeah the bike is awesome and well made, but your paying for the name also. You definitely cleared that out to me and will take your post into alot of cosideration (how ever its spelled).

 

@appiah5 - Awesomenesssss!! wow!! I'm not trying to achieve top of the line stuff that makes me win contests (tho i will want to get as good), i just want to make something around that look, nice and proud :) . Your Space Marines are very inspiring!

 

I give props to all you guys that have been into this for long (or short) cause its a huge headache and to know that people make awesome pieces even thru this mess, its simply amazing.

[striker8]

@striker8 - Thanks, you inspired my search, I started feeling like buying expensive paint was like buying a Harley Davidson... yeah the bike is awesome and well made, but your paying for the name also. You definitely cleared that out to me and will take your post into alot of cosideration (how ever its spelled).

 

@appiah5 - Awesomenesssss!! wow!! I'm not trying to achieve top of the line stuff that makes me win contests (tho i will want to get as good), i just want to make something around that look, nice and proud :) . Your Space Marines are very inspiring!

 

I give props to all you guys that have been into this for long (or short) cause its a huge headache and to know that people make awesome pieces even thru this mess, its simply amazing.

 

No problem, glad I could help you and hopefully any other folks who've wondered about the subject.

 

If you have any other questions ask away.