Deploying Reserves

[Entry1]

Greetings all, sorry I'm just returning to 40k and I had some BA questions...

 

1) Can I assign a 10 man assault squad w/JPs to a Stormraven while in reserve and then split into combat squads upon deployment, deep striking with five marines and having the other five in the vehicle?

 

2) If I choose to dump the assault marine jump packs do I have to take a transport? It reads to me as if its optional.

 

Thanks everyone. take care

[Vexicus]

Hail Brother,

 

Welcome back to 40k, to answer your questions,

 

1) No, a combat squadded 10 man squad can not be in the same transport. For all intensive purposes they are 2 separate squads.

 

2) They do not have to take a transport it is optional.

 

Hope that helps

[Acebaur]

I don't think he was wanting to put them in the same transport. But the answer is still no. You cannot combat squad a unit that is in reserves. They may combat squad when they arrive, but not before.

[Entry1]

Thanks for the replies, however upon arrvial can I split them so half is in Raven and other half is out of the raven and keep the ability to deep strike the second half?

[Leonaides]

no.

[thade]

Thanks for the replies, however upon arrvial can I split them so half is in Raven and other half is out of the raven and keep the ability to deep strike the second half?

I'll get a bit pedantic here in hopes it clears things up.

 

A unit can break into Combat Squads when it is Deployed and not before. So if it's in Reserves and you roll saying it can come in, at that moment it may split into two squads.

 

If your squad is in Reserves and embarked on a Transport, you roll for the Transport to see if it comes in...when it does, it brings the Squad in. Since they're inside, they can't break on Deployment: you're Deploying them embarked. :)

 

In the rare circumstance where the Transport and the Unit are both in Reserves, not embarked, and you roll such that they both enter at the same time, you can feasibly break the squad into combat squads as you deploy them and then stick one unit into the Transport. The trick is that the Transport's movement is restricted such that 1. it's got to end its Movement somewhere that the squad can embark in it, 2. the squad can likely not move as far as the transport...especially in the case of a Storm Raven.

 

In short, that means - even if you manage this - the Storm Raven wont' be able to rage full-steam ahead and deploy that combat squad far afield...as they can't board it until it and they are on the table...the squad itself is foot-slogging on. ;)

 

If you declare the unit as Deep Striking, you must do this when you declare the unit to be in Reserves. This means you don't combat squad the unit until it deploys...and at that time, both combat squads will be Deep Striking (as you declared).

 

A bit long-winded, but view it as a foot note to the much simpler entries here. <3

[Entry1]

Thanks for the replies, however upon arrvial can I split them so half is in Raven and other half is out of the raven and keep the ability to deep strike the second half?

I'll get a bit pedantic here in hopes it clears things up.

 

A unit can break into Combat Squads when it is Deployed and not before. So if it's in Reserves and you roll saying it can come in, at that moment it may split into two squads.

 

If your squad is in Reserves and embarked on a Transport, you roll for the Transport to see if it comes in...when it does, it brings the Squad in. Since they're inside, they can't break on Deployment: you're Deploying them embarked. :P

 

In the rare circumstance where the Transport and the Unit are both in Reserves, not embarked, and you roll such that they both enter at the same time, you can feasibly break the squad into combat squads as you deploy them and then stick one unit into the Transport. The trick is that the Transport's movement is restricted such that 1. it's got to end its Movement somewhere that the squad can embark in it, 2. the squad can likely not move as far as the transport...especially in the case of a Storm Raven.

 

In short, that means - even if you manage this - the Storm Raven wont' be able to rage full-steam ahead and deploy that combat squad far afield...as they can't board it until it and they are on the table...the squad itself is foot-slogging on. :)

 

If you declare the unit as Deep Striking, you must do this when you declare the unit to be in Reserves. This means you don't combat squad the unit until it deploys...and at that time, both combat squads will be Deep Striking (as you declared).

 

A bit long-winded, but view it as a foot note to the much simpler entries here. <3

 

 

Thank you so much!! explains everything perfectly!!

[Captain Idaho]

Thanks for the replies, however upon arrvial can I split them so half is in Raven and other half is out of the raven and keep the ability to deep strike the second half?

I'll get a bit pedantic here in hopes it clears things up.

 

A unit can break into Combat Squads when it is Deployed and not before. So if it's in Reserves and you roll saying it can come in, at that moment it may split into two squads.

 

If your squad is in Reserves and embarked on a Transport, you roll for the Transport to see if it comes in...when it does, it brings the Squad in. Since they're inside, they can't break on Deployment: you're Deploying them embarked. :D

 

In the rare circumstance where the Transport and the Unit are both in Reserves, not embarked, and you roll such that they both enter at the same time, you can feasibly break the squad into combat squads as you deploy them and then stick one unit into the Transport. The trick is that the Transport's movement is restricted such that 1. it's got to end its Movement somewhere that the squad can embark in it, 2. the squad can likely not move as far as the transport...especially in the case of a Storm Raven.

 

In short, that means - even if you manage this - the Storm Raven wont' be able to rage full-steam ahead and deploy that combat squad far afield...as they can't board it until it and they are on the table...the squad itself is foot-slogging on. :)

 

If you declare the unit as Deep Striking, you must do this when you declare the unit to be in Reserves. This means you don't combat squad the unit until it deploys...and at that time, both combat squads will be Deep Striking (as you declared).

 

A bit long-winded, but view it as a foot note to the much simpler entries here. <3

 

Bit late but I have a problem with this my friend:

 

Taken from another thread I said the following:

 

I've read it a few times on the board you can split into combat squads when you are placed on the table but this isn't the case. It says you must do so when deploying with the one exception you can split into Combat squads when arriving in a drop pod.

 

If we look up the reserves rules it actually states you can deploy into reserves, and uses the term arrives from reserves. The Space Marines FAQ states you cannot combat squad in reserves.

 

So no Combat Squadding unless you start on the table or deploy from a drop pod.

[thade]

This comes down to their lack of clarity and strong need for a glossary. I submit the following addendum to your challenges:

 

When you place your models on the table, you are Deploying them.

 

What this means is that when your models arrive they are thus being deployed. That FAQ you refer to was put in place specifically to stop you from doing what the crux of this thread is examining: you can't break the squad into combat squads and have each squad arrive as if they are different squads.

 

Breaking into combat squads when the hit the table, that's okay.

[Captain Idaho]

This comes down to their lack of clarity and strong need for a glossary. I submit the following addendum to your challenges:

 

When you place your models on the table, you are Deploying them.

 

What this means is that when your models arrive they are thus being deployed. That FAQ you refer to was put in place specifically to stop you from doing what the crux of this thread is examining: you can't break the squad into combat squads and have each squad arrive as if they are different squads.

 

Breaking into combat squads when the hit the table, that's okay.

 

No you are artificially putting words into it to create a rule you can use.

 

Arriving from reserves never uses the word "Deploy" therefore if you are going to use semantics then technically you are never deploying from reserve, merely arriving from reserve.

 

Urgo, no Combat squadding as per RAW.

 

Would like to say, it's clear the intent of the rules are you cannot do so unless drop podding or starting on the table. After all, why would it specifiy you CAN do so in the drop pod stage?

 

***EDIT*** Actually my post above this doesn't follow this logic, but this post is more accurate!

[thade]

After all, why would it specifiy you CAN do so in the drop pod stage?

Because it is the only instance where a unit can Deploy via a Transport and still break into Combat Squads after the Transport moves. You cannot do this with any other vehicle, so they made a point of it.

[Captain Idaho]

After all, why would it specifiy you CAN do so in the drop pod stage?

Because it is the only instance where a unit can Deploy via a Transport and still break into Combat Squads after the Transport moves. You cannot do this with any other vehicle, so they made a point of it.

 

Ah but you haven't commented on the main point in my post :huh:

 

No you are artificially putting words into it to create a rule you can use.

 

Arriving from reserves never uses the word "Deploy" therefore if you are going to use semantics then technically you are never deploying from reserve, merely arriving from reserve.

 

Urgo, no Combat squadding as per RAW.

 

Since the you aren't deploying from reserves but arriving from them, as stated in the rule book, you cannot ever split into combat squads.

 

Honestly go check it out. Never once states the words "deploying from reserve", with the only instance of the word referring to being when starting on the table.

[thade]

No you are artificially putting words into it to create a rule you can use.

So, the reason I didn't respond to this is that it lacked sufficient winkies. I have never "artificially put words in to create a rule I can use", which I (optimistically) believe you believe. Regardless, sans winkies, it's probably safer to leave these sort of accusatory/value-driven statements out of constructive conversation.

 

Arriving from reserves never uses the word "Deploy" therefore if you are going to use semantics then technically you are never deploying from reserve, merely arriving from reserve.

 

Urgo, no Combat squadding as per RAW.

You have me at a disadvantage without my books, and I'm at the point where I can't press this via memory. My memory is pretty firm on this though, so I'm hoping a few other OR regulars weigh in here with thoughts on it. Barring that, I'll come back in here and comment again after I get to my books this evening. :huh:

 

I may be making a mistake, but honestly I don't think so.

 

EDIT: Juxtaposition.

[dswanick]

Sorry Captain Idaho, but direct from page 94 of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook:

Rolling for Reserves

Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later. Then he

picks another unit and deploys it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. The player may then proceed to move his other units as normal.

Arriving from reserve

When a reserve unit arrives, it must move onto the table from the controlling player'sown table edge (unless it's deep stnking or outflanking).

[thade]

Sorry Captain Idaho, but direct from page 94 of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook:

Rolling for Reserves

Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later. Then he picks another unit and deploys it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. The player may then proceed to move his other units as normal.

Arriving from reserve

When a reserve unit arrives, it must move onto the table from the controlling player'sown table edge (unless it's deep stnking or outflanking).

Emphasis mine. Thanks, dswanick.

[Captain Idaho]

Can I have brown sauce with these words I'm eating please?

 

Seriously though, I missed that paragraph 3 TIMES(!), the word deploy is used therefore it is possible. I still believe it is a naughty loop hole so won't use it myself, but I can't fault a guy for using the rule to the letter.

 

Apologies, will go post a link to this post (or just quote it) in the other thread.

 

@ thade: Of course, no smilies were used in error, as I was being humourous and not accusatory! Just read it back and yes it's meaning (much like many of GW rules) is a little ambiguous!

 

You know I love you man and value all your posts.

 

Here's a winkie :devil:

[thade]

lol! It's all good, man. I'm used to taking my lumps on this board. :devil:

[awfulawful]

Can someone write up a full Tactica for Smilies and have it stickied in this forum?

 

:devil:

[thade]

Can someone write up a full Tactica for Smilies and have it stickied in this forum?

I vote for Dan VK to do this.

[Dan VK]

Can someone write up a full Tactica for Smilies and have it stickied in this forum?

I vote for Dan VK to do this.

Aww, was I just voluntold? :D

[Frosty the Pyro]

wow i wish i saw this earlier as I have explained it a number of times on this forum, it looks like most of the inportant points are mentioned but i will do my speal anyway, I mean this and wound alocation are basicly my thing around here.

 

 

Combat squading occurs at Deployment.

 

During the deployment phase there is enouph legal wiggle room that you may have one combat squad embarked in a transport and one outside. They are entirely seperate units and may be treated as such and a unit may start embarked.

 

Alterntively you may delay deployment by putting them in reserves.

 

The reserve rules require you to declare how they will enter play (outflanking, deepstriking, etcetera) and if they will be embarked and any IC that are attached, this decision cannot be altered (except by a few specific rules in some of the xeno codexs). Because they have not yet deployed and as such have not combat squaded yet, this decions applies to ALL models in the 10 man unit. thus if you declare they will enter embarked, all 10 must abide by the decision and be embarked on the named transport. Because a transport my only have one unit embarked at a time (thus preventing combat squading while embarked), you will be unable to utilize combat squading if you declare they will be in a transport because all ten are required to be in the transport and once the transport is deployed (and the unit inside) the window of oportunity to combat squad is over. There are two exceptions, one is if the transport is a drop pod, because the rules specificly allow combat squading when disembarking from a drop pod, and two is if the transport in question is a super heavy transport, or otherwise able to transport more than one unit.