I am Alpharius...

[Honda]

Maybe someone has already thought about this, but it was bugging me the other day when I was going through Migsula's awesome AL thread.

 

+++ POTENTIAL LEGION SPOILER ALERT +++

 

 

Consider:

 

1. For those who have read "Legion" <still my fav>, do you recall the part where John Grammatica is observing AL troopers. He notices slight differences between some of those present, but it is with the knowledge that only someone with his special capabilities who would be able to do so.

 

2. Various members at different times state "I am Alpharius" and it's pretty much accepted by humans. Now some of that could be due to the fact that the AL are fairly secretive, probably don't circulate among normal humans regularly, so there's a lack of familiarity there, but still whenever anyone says that, most accept the comment at face value.

 

3. Even when Alpharius/Omegan as well as others are present in front of numerous humans, some of whom ought to be capable of distinguishing differences (e.g. security forces), they do not notice anything unusual.

 

Which leads me to wonder...are all members of the Alpha Legion the same size as their primarchs?

[Jareddm]

I think it's more that Alpharius/Omegon are the size of their astartes. For primarchs I imagine they're on the short side.

[Legatus]

Now, I haven't read any of the Horus Heresy books, but I have briefly read a few short bits about the Primarchs. They are often described as larger than life figures, whose (almost) divinity is apparent to anyone looking upon them. In "The First Heretic" a Word Bearers Captain ponders how it is difficult to gaze upon his Primarch for longer than a brief moment, and IIRC later he observes that he has a similar difficulty looking at Roboute Guilliman. Since I have not read the Horus Heresy novels I do not know whether that is the same in other descriptions of Primarchs, or whether this was just something A D-B had come up with. If the descriptions of Primarchs in other books are similar, and if Alpharius apparently does not evoke that same awe in other humans as his brothers do (since it is apparently possible for regular Alpha Legion Marines to be mistaken for him), then that would explain his inferiority complex and his obsession to prove his superiority over others.

[esinhorn]

I know I read somewhere recently Alpharuis was a head shorter than his brothers.

But then again it was probally Alpharuis and not Alpharuis.

[Coryphaus 101]

No I'm pretty sure Alpharius was Primarch height, he was just so damn good at being invisible

[Cleanse And Purify]

In the extract of ADB's novella Aurelian, it is mentioned that Alpharius is a head shorter than his brother Primarchs. In Legion itself, it is noted that many of the older Alpha Legionnaires are themselves very tall, even for Astartes. Sheed Ranko and Ingo Pech are noted as being very tall, allowing them and other older Legionnaires to masquerade as the Primarchs on occasion.

[Legatus]

In the extract of ADB's novella Aurelian, it is mentioned that Alpharius is a head shorter than his brother Primarchs. In Legion itself, it is noted that many of the older Alpha Legionnaires are themselves very tall, even for Astartes.

Why, isn't that convenient? :)

[Cleanse And Purify]

In the extract of ADB's novella Aurelian, it is mentioned that Alpharius is a head shorter than his brother Primarchs. In Legion itself, it is noted that many of the older Alpha Legionnaires are themselves very tall, even for Astartes.

Why, isn't that convenient? :)

 

What's so awful about that?

[Legatus]

I'm just sayin, if the Primarch is smaller compared to the other Primarchs, you would perhaps expect the Marines from his Legion to likewise be a bit smaller than other Marines (being made from his gene-seed and all), and not taller. That would seem logical. Unless you needed Alpharius to be slightly smaller and his Legionnaires to be slightly taller for some plot related reason...

[Cleanse And Purify]

I'm just sayin, if the Primarch is smaller compared to the other Primarchs, you would perhaps expect the Marines from his Legion to likewise be a bit smaller than other Marines (being made from his gene-seed and all), and not taller. That would seem logical. Unless you needed Alpharius to be slightly smaller and his Legionnaires to be slightly taller for some plot related reason...

 

I suppose. However, Alpharius is himself seemingly a fluke, being the only Primarch to have a twin as well as being smaller than his brothers. Perhaps his sons are also flukes? It is mentioned that only the first generation of Legionnaires are taller, hence why they are captains such as Pech and Ranko.

[Valtonis]

not only are they short they lack the aura and charisma that all the other Primarchs have.

as is the case in all the other Primarchs, a person would know that he is a Primarch just because by the aura they exude, that they are beyond humanity and are closer to a god but apparently Alpharius and Omegon are not different than normal SMs

[Arkangilos]

Why would the marines be smaller because of their primarch? For the most part gene-seed doesn't affect their appearance.

[Grotsmasha]

I know that my twin sisters are a head shorter than the average height in their class, so why couldn't it happen to twin Primarchs? As to the 'aura of power' missing, I've always assumed this was an ability that could be 'turned on', much like the Emperor can mask or amplify his.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Kizzdougs]

In the AL AI it states that the Legion was created a couple of decades before Horus found Alpharius. It also gives this description of the AL "The new Space Marines were tall and strong, much reminiscent of their Primarch, and were possessed of a cunning intelligence".

 

In my opinion this suggests that the AL were slightly taller than the marine average. Alpharius on the other hand would still need to be shorter than the average primarch if his legionnaires were to masquerade as him. My interpretation of "tall and strong, much reminiscent of their primarch", is that the marines are as tall as Alpharius, not that Alpharius is particularly tall.

I hope i just made at least some sense.

[Master Exorcist]

Alpharius+ Omegon together would, however, equal primarch size in terms of body mass.

 

just my 2 kraks,

 

ME

[Brother Caedrius]

In the AL AI it states that the Legion was created a couple of decades before Horus found Alpharius. It also gives this description of the AL "The new Space Marines were tall and strong, much reminiscent of their Primarch, and were possessed of a cunning intelligence".

 

In my opinion this suggests that the AL were slightly taller than the marine average. Alpharius on the other hand would still need to be shorter than the average primarch if his legionnaires were to masquerade as him. My interpretation of "tall and strong, much reminiscent of their primarch", is that the marines are as tall as Alpharius, not that Alpharius is particularly tall.

I hope i just made at least some sense.

 

This is almost exactly what I had thought while reading Legion. A+O were not as tall as Horus or the Lion (and def not as tall as Magnus), but their legion brothers were slightly taller than other legions marines, allowing any AL marine to pose as A+O and vice versa

[Legatus]

The AL IA also describes Alpharius to have been over a foot taller than Luna Wolves Space Marines and "almost the match of Horus himself", all while himself being unarmoured.

 

 

Why would the marines be smaller because of their primarch? For the most part gene-seed doesn't affect their appearance.

I was under the distinct impression that gene-seed would largely do exactly that. The aspirants would not really grow into eight foot supermen if not implanted with a primarch's gene-seed, and the Codices and Index Astartes articles usually describe the various traits of their Primarchs the Marines inherit. Leman Russ' fangs, Corax' and Curze's skin and eye colour, etc. The gene-seed of a particularly small Primarch may not turn Marines with his gene-seed into smaller Marines in general, but there would certainly be a tendency for them to be smaller, rather than a tendency for them to be taller than other Marines.

[malika666]

In Legion it was also mentioned that Alpha Legionnaires underwent surgery to change their appearance to match their Primarch more closely. What if they also lengthen some of their limbs, like lets say the legs? I know that this is a popular surgical treatment in China for women who want to become taller.

[Grimdarkness]

Considering the current Alpha Legion can pose as loyal marines because so few people have ever seen a space marine who says that did not work back during the great crusade?

[Pulse]

Consider:

 

1. For those who have read "Legion" <still my fav>, do you recall the part where John Grammatica is observing AL troopers. He notices slight differences between some of those present, but it is with the knowledge that only someone with his special capabilities who would be able to do so.

Indeed, but to point out the obvious - John Grammaticus was not normal, he was much more than a standard human - he was a powerful psyker, even the Emperor could feel how powerful Grammaticus was when they shook hands and offered to speak further with Grammaticis to "consider the options available to beings like us".

 

2. Various members at different times state "I am Alpharius" and it's pretty much accepted by humans. Now some of that could be due to the fact that the AL are fairly secretive, probably don't circulate among normal humans regularly, so there's a lack of familiarity there, but still whenever anyone says that, most accept the comment at face value.

Why would they have any other reason not to trust the word of the Astartes? Nothing related to the HH had happened yet and you have to remember the Astartes are feared by normal humans.

 

3. Even when Alpharius/Omegan as well as others are present in front of numerous humans, some of whom ought to be capable of distinguishing differences (e.g. security forces), they do not notice anything unusual.

Like who? All that were actually there were unaugmented humans, apart from the Lucifer Black but they were gene altered and so may have had a superior ability for detail.

 

Which leads me to wonder...are all members of the Alpha Legion the same size as their primarchs?

More than Likely - the Alpha Legionnaires had had sugery as well to make them all look like their primarchs.

[Honda]

Indeed, but to point out the obvious - John Grammaticus was not normal, he was much more than a standard human - he was a powerful psyker, even the Emperor could feel how powerful Grammaticus was when they shook hands and offered to speak further with Grammaticis to "consider the options available to beings like us".

 

I think we are agreeing with each other. What you are stating is exactly my point, which is, only someone with incredible powers of perception would be able to discern a difference, hence they are virtually all the same.

 

Why would they have any other reason not to trust the word of the Astartes? Nothing related to the HH had happened yet and you have to remember the Astartes are feared by normal humans.

 

Maybe this is just me, but I'd think people would tend to pay attention to people/things that cause fear. Maybe that includes an additional level of scrutiny, maybe not.

 

Not critical to the point though, which is, more than likely, all the AL pretty much look the same to most observers.

 

Interesting thoughts everyone, many thanx!

[Jim Shady]

3. Even when Alpharius/Omegan as well as others are present in front of numerous humans, some of whom ought to be capable of distinguishing differences (e.g. security forces), they do not notice anything unusual.

 

Not true. The Lucifer Black notices the differences when the commander/general (I forget his name) asks if he noticed the differences between the AL.

[WeaponAdept]

Twins are often smaller than single babbies due to limited space in a womb and the split in available resourses available from the mother.

 

However, applying this to the Primarchs and their birth capsual thing swould be difficult...

[Dominicus]

In Legion, Grammaticus was able to see a height difference between Omegon and his Legionaries, as well as between Alpharius and his Legionaries, but both Omegon and Alpharius were the same height.

He also observed that, though most Alpha Legionaries underwent cosmetic surgery of sorts to resemble their primarch(s), there were certain features about them, most notable the eyes, that gave them away as not being Alpharius.

Omegon and Alpharius were completely alike, naturally.

[Perrin]

I think the Primarch aura that people have described and said that Alpharius/Omegon lack isnt what helps people to identify a Primarch, rather it is what a Primarch has when people know he's a Primarch. Primarchs are always taller than their accompying marines and are decked out in fancy capes and have big ornate weapons, and sometimes wear make-up, so anyone who sees them will know straight away "That's a Primarch, one of the Sons of the Emperor" and would see the Primarch as something close to a god, which would give them an aura in the viewers eyes.

Even with the Primarchs own marines, they would still have all their fancy weapons and clothes, the marines would have been trained and raised to almost worship this Primarch and see him as their creator/father, so they would also see the Primarch differently.

With the Alpha Legion they are trained to question beliefs etc and all of them look and dress the same, and are roughly the same height, most probably fight the same way, so anyone watching them wouldnt be able to tell them apart, so no "aura".

 

Did the Emperor make them twins on purpose btw?

 

Also, its a story, who cares if the plot coincedently makes Alpharius/Omegon smaller than other Primarchs but makes his marines taller. If it made the marines smaller too then it would be easy to tell the Primarchs apart, defeating the whole role of this rather cool Legion.