Competing with Grey Knights

[Mulozia]

I may not be the best General and while I do lack experience I'm still having a very hard time when I face Grey Knights using the CSM Codex. Losing against someone who out plays me isnt the problem, that doesn't bother me one bit. What bothers me is losing because I choose to use Codex CSM. Its really rubbing me the wrong way and thats how i feel about it.

 

All that being said I wanted to start this thread with the hopes that the best CSM players can provide insights as to what are the strengths of Codex CSM and how to turn losses into wins vs the Grey Knights. It seems they have a lot of buffs and bonuses vs us but what do we have vs them? If any of the more tactical thinkers could provide us with some tips we can use to get the most of our army until we get a new update I would really like to have it.

[Rikuturso]

I've faced the same problem, though it doesn't bother me that much because I play Grey Knights also myself. Here's couple of advices for victory:

 

1.Templates. Use Vindicators for paladins and Defilers for Strike Squads and purifiers. Defilers range is longer than laser or autocannon, so you can most of the time place them in a position where they don't get shot rigth away. My army has txo defilers and three obliterators. Obliterators are recommended to shoot plasmacannons, because they ignore paladins armour. You can of course buy 9 obliterators straight away. They also have heavy flames for lash purposes.

2.Demon princes at the end game. I use lash princes, but if enemy has Libby or dreads it's most of the time worthless. Mark of Tzeentch kicks ass, because of the 4+ invu save. They are great to pull enemy out of objective at the last moments.

3.Land raider, unbelievably annoing to destroy. Put some terminators with flamers or combiplasmas of meltas inside.

4.Chosen. You can get 5 plasmaguns for these heroes and you can get three units. Even paladins have to bow before them. Just infiltrate and rapidfire. Simple and effective. They get killed of course but they buy you a lot of time.

5.Plaguemarines, 2 plasma, champ with fist and combiplasma

6.I have one deepstriking unit of 5 terminators with heavy flamer and four combiflamers. Combined with lash they usually destroy most of the unit they attack beacause of the enormous amount of saves opponent have to take.

7. thousand sons, 4+ invu and bolts that kill marines like rabbits.

 

Remember put everything you have into cover and into rhinos so it'll buy you time you need to get to rapid fire distance.

 

Grey knights are tough but not that tough. Just ignore their armoursaves and they all die :) When everything else fails, plasma the €#%€#!

[Excessus]

2: MoT kicks ass for a second reason as well, namely using two powers each turn! :D Wind of chaos with reroll wounds from warptime kills things really much, no cover or armour saves allowed! :P

 

Rhinos are a must!

 

The GK player will have a truckload of shots to fire each turn from all those stormbolters/psycannons, give him plenty of targets so he has to divert firepower.

 

Focus your fire! Don't divert your own fire too much. It's ok to leave a stunned vehicle for next turns shooting...

[breng77]

1.Templates. Use Vindicators for paladins and Defilers for Strike Squads and purifiers. Defilers range is longer than laser or autocannon, so you can most of the time place them in a position where they don't get shot rigth away. My army has txo defilers and three obliterators. Obliterators are recommended to shoot plasmacannons, because they ignore paladins armour. You can of course buy 9 obliterators straight away. They also have heavy flames for lash purposes.

 

unless your opponent is running foot gks this is not all that important. Also, unless the paladins are in a big circle, you would never shoot them with plasma cannons off of your oblits, its lascannons, and melta guns all the way. That way each wound kills a guy, against an wound allocated paladin squad of 5 you need to do 6 wounds just to kill one paladin with plasma.

 

I would have to say 9 oblits are the way to go. They will tend to outlast your defilers . They are better at anti-tank than the defiler, and better against things like paladins.

 

Chosen are also a good choice with a mix of melta and plasma.

 

As for DPs they don't really do all that well, they either die to concentrated fire or in the assault to high I power weapons. As far as HQs go I might try to fill out my list with what I wanted outside the HQ slot and then go from there.

[minigun762]

Here is some additional advice from another topic.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...;hl=grey+knight

[greatcrusade08]

of course people always fall back onto using oblits, personally i like to be a little more unique, but theres no denying the awesome potential of obliterators.

in battling grey knights, youll find the PA guys die just like any other PA guys, GKs have a huge damage output but this is directly proportional to thier boots on the ground (as it is with most armies).

i look at the comparion between GK and our cult troops and it makes me a sad sad bunny.. 20 points for a storm bolter and force weapon, our cult troops are between 20-23 points without upgrades.. not a great start tbh..

 

the biggest concern is of course the highly discussed draigo-wing, ive always believed the best way to beat draigowing is to kill off the auxilary units first before turning on draigos unit.. unless of course you have the potential to cuase multiple high strength low AP wounds in one go... for example 4 meltaguns, otherwise single heavy shots get placed on draigo and we waste our time.

if we can kill the NDKs and small 5 man paladin squads then we can concentrate everything on draigos unit, in terms of killing NDKs in a recent game i had a nnurgle prince with wings and warptime kill two in succession, warptime and a higher WS means we cause quite a few wounds to our opponent and despite getting re-rolls to hit we shouldnt take too many in return (bad luck can affect this though).

vindicators are always a solid choice against GK, but most vehicles are succeptible to massed psycannon shots

psycannon = assault cannon on steroids.

 

personally id like to see what typhus could do against paladins assuming we could block off any halberds with his accompanying unit (which would be fodder), he gets +D6 attacks that cause instant death (and he re-rolls to wound T4 or less)

[TheDarkApostle]

Just remember that not all of Typhus attacks cause instant death. He still has to make a psychic test to turn ONE of those wounds into an instant death.

 

TDA

[the jeske]

2 slany lords on bikes or mounts if you want to kill paladins . ID deamon weapon 2d6 A all at i6 , so just as fast in same cases faster then the paladins. but of course for that to work someone would have to be mad enough to play lords.

[Slayer le Boucher]

A good tactic to deal with GK's i've found.

 

Go straitgh for the Commander in Chief,in clear slap the GK player with the rule book,direct win.

 

That will teach him to play a wonky codex!

[greatcrusade08]

A good tactic to deal with GK's i've found.

 

Go straitgh for the Commander in Chief,in clear slap the GK player with the rule book,direct win.

 

That will teach him to play a wonky codex!

 

qouted for pure win stuff :), although id say for them most part its the bandwagonners that need the slap not the long term GK fans (after all its not thier fault)

[breng77]

ID deamon weapon 2d6 A all at i6

 

not a horrible idea but it is only 1d6 attacks for a slaanesh Dw

[greatcrusade08]

i suppose abaddon could work, but hes horibly expensive and will die against draigo one vs one

[the jeske]

ID deamon weapon 2d6 A all at i6

 

not a horrible idea but it is only 1d6 attacks for a slaanesh Dw

I did say 2 lords . and as most draigons will run one squad that is the problem it will be 2d6 most of the time.

[breng77]

True if you attack with 2 lords.

[khurdur]

I'd like to believe that Abaddon can take Draigo one on one, he's got 4+D6 attacks at S8, that should kill him over a couple of turns, Draigo has 4 S5 attacks only...

[nurglez]

1 on 1, maybe, I think they will be pretty even. However, I think you will rarely have either of them on their own.