GK Interceptors

[genesis_rhapsod0s]

I've been reading (here and other places as well) quite a bit about how GK Interceptors are NOT assault troops. My question is, why not? They are pound for pound everything a Vanilla Marine Assault Squad is, only better. Granted, it's 30 points more expensive for a 5-man squad, but so what? Every one of them has a NFW, a one time 30" shunt move, and access to things Vanilla Marines can only have wet dreams about. I understand that at the end of the day squads like this may not be the most useful around, but they're doing things the GK way; like VM, but better.

[BrotherWasted]

Because they're pathetic in close combat unless you buy Falchions. While they have force weapons, where they truly beat a Vanilla Assault Squad is in Shooting.

 

They don't have additional close combat weapons, meaning they're only 1A in combat, 2A on the charge. They are not a dedicted close combat unit like Assault Marines, because they cannot put up the number of attacks in sustained combat to survive.

[Drachnon]

The problem lies in their output of attacks compared to points cost. They are about 50% more expensive then assault marines but lack the attack for having an extra close combat weapon.

The lack of attacks can be slightly compensated by the force weapons but all the bodies they lack mean they are not as durable for the same points as normal assault marines.

This puts them into a different role then that of assault marines.

[genesis_rhapsod0s]

I would argue that NFW attacks (which ignore armor saves) are more valuable than just an extra attack. It's true that Assault Marines get extra attacks, but they would perform roughly the same when it comes to total number of wounds. I would even go so far as to maybe even put Interceptors on par with Vanguard Veteran Squads (the Interceptors roughly point equivalent). GK have always been about quality over quantity, and I feel that it applies even to the wounds that the inflict.

[the Fell Hand]

Good thread, I was considering this just today in fact as I look at 40 GKSS bodies I need to assemble. They seem more suited for continuous jump, shoot, redeploy. They aren't assault marines, they're like hit and run firepower. Even without the shunt, the normal jump in and shoot can help take attention off your other units, or fly in to save the day if needed. They are like a distraction unit that CAN handle a variety of situations. The best at anything? Not really. But useful? Definitely.

 

Just pretend they are a mobile gun (psycannon) platform. Two small units of them with a psyc each isnt too bad for being a highly annoying unit that can hit from 24" away wherever they land (plus the shunt in a pinch).

[Brother Dylan]

Interceptors like strike squads can perform a variety of roles and in my opinion should not be pigeonholed into just shooting, but at the end of the day against most armies you will get better results point for point by shooting and keeping your distance rather then launching straight into close combat. It's not just about getting better results in cc then other jump infantry, its about getting the most out of the unit.

[Valerian]

I've been reading (here and other places as well) quite a bit about how GK Interceptors are NOT assault troops. My question is, why not? They are pound for pound everything a Vanilla Marine Assault Squad is, only better.

 

Would it blow your mind if I told you that Vanilla Marine Assault Squads aren't assault troops either?

 

Valerian

[genesis_rhapsod0s]

I've been reading (here and other places as well) quite a bit about how GK Interceptors are NOT assault troops. My question is, why not? They are pound for pound everything a Vanilla Marine Assault Squad is, only better.

 

Would it blow your mind if I told you that Vanilla Marine Assault Squads aren't assault troops either?

 

Valerian

 

Mind=blown.

 

What? :yes:

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Simply put, vanilla assault marines aren't good at close combat. They're best at jumping forward and dropping a flamer template on something, or providing a five man bodyguard for a character in a Rhino.

 

Blood Angel assault marines get the nod because they're troops, can take two assault weapons or a Razorback. Furious charge and feel no pain bubbles mean they don't totally suck at assault, but Codex Marines don't even get that.

[Valerian]

Okay, well first let me provide this tidbit:

 

"Assault Force: A unit that will close with and assault an enemy force to destroy it (force-oriented), or that moves forward to seize an objective (terrain-oriented). The most important attributes for this force are Mobility (tactical) and Close Combat." - copied from my own Tactica for army building (link in my sig).

 

As Jump Infantry, vanilla Assault Squads have good Tactical Mobility; they've got decent threat range, and can generally get to their target within a few turns. As far as mobility is concerned, they've got about as good as you can get in the game. Really only Beasts/Cavalry have it better.

 

Where they fail is in their close combat ability; counterintuitively, Assault Marines are exceptionally disappointing in close combat. Even if you max out the unit, only 1 guy can take a Special Close Combat Weapon (the Sergeant). Every other attack in the unit has but a 1/12 likelihood of killing a MEQ.

 

When an enemy Tactical Squad is standing in cover, defending an Objective, what do you send against them to destroy that unit and/or take that ground from them? It won't be an Assault Squad; they don't have what it takes to do the job.

 

Now, to get back to the original question, do Interceptors have what it takes?

 

V

[Abaddonshand]

I'll lay my cards on the table, I plan on fielding a ten man squad with 7 falchions, a hammer and 2 psycannons for 360pts at 2k+, and at least a half squad in 1500 (also adding psybolts at higher points levels again).

 

That said, the main reason for doing so is aesthetic, I like how the falchions look, and feel they suit the unit. I don't view this as a complete waste however. They certainly aren't a dedicated assault unit, but given that their role is either support for my line, or getting into the enemy's backline, I like that falchions makes them a bit more reliable should they end up in combat. A 5 man squad goes from annoying long fangs to wiping them from the board. I would even put incinerators on them instead if I had the points, to give shunt-precision flaming death to light infantry and vehicles.

 

I guess they are what you make of them really. For me they're a flashy looking unit, that if left alone will do some damage, and if they get shot that's less firepower aimed at my advancing terminators, objective holding strikes, or stormraven mounted purifiers.

[jeffersonian000]

I've been using my 10-man GKIS squad most of the time as two 5-man mobile gun platforms, with each sporting a hammer and a psycannon. They are my tank hunters and object stealers. In a pinch, I can shunt or jump them behind an enemy unit I'm planning on breaking in close combat, with a good expectation that the enemy unit with be destroyed when they fail a moral check. In kill point games, I run them as a single 10-man unit that does the same thing, only at 10 wounds I'm confident that if I need them to assault something, they have a good chance of succeeding. However, I rarely assault with them unless that is the best use for them on any given turn.

 

As I've posted before, my main GK army is a Ghostwing with Mordrak, 4x Ghosts, Librarian w/ skulls and powers, 2x 10-man GKT, 1x GKIS, with each squad that can having a cannon and hammer per 5-men. The GKT are the "hammer" to my GKIS "anvil", with Mordrak+Ghost+Librarian controlling the pace of the fight.

 

SJ

[Chengar Qordath]

I would argue that NFW attacks (which ignore armor saves) are more valuable than just an extra attack. It's true that Assault Marines get extra attacks, but they would perform roughly the same when it comes to total number of wounds.

Depends on what you're fighting; plenty of stuff out there won't be that bothered by losing an armor save.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It does raise an interesting point though; do you think you can cause enough damage from shooting to whittle down your opponent, so that your small number of power weapon attacks overwhelm the remainder? Most other infantry strike either same time or after you (standing still), and getting no save sucks even if you're 5pt Guardsmen. You also have to consider that many monsters don't wanna enter combat with you, because whilst they may eat 2-3 of the squad with their attacks, the rest hit back with ID-causing attacks, and it only takes one unsaved wound to make them go pop.

 

I disagree with Valerian, Assault Marines are the bane of non-MeQ infantry (too fast to outrun, cheap powerfist delivery, a lot of S4 attacks will still break power armour), and Tac Marines don't wanna take a charge from them either. The two flamers+bolt pistols will inflict 2-3 casualties, followed up by 3-4 more thanks to massed S4 and powerfist. Thats at least half, not over half the squad dead, and Tac Marines do very little back (even with a squad powerfist). They live long enough to shield the enemy Assault squad from your shooting (because you can't fire into close-combat), then in your turn, the Assault Marines finish them off and go hunting another ranged MeQ unit (like Devastators).

[Borinar]

I did some quick math, the Interceptor Squad is exactly TWICE as CC killy as a Vanilla Assault Squad because of NFW's. This doesn't include HH which would put them at about 2.5 times as killy in CC.

 

They also are at least Twice as shooty as vanilla because of double range and double shots.

 

Also Taking into consideration Upgrades, they are only 21 percent more expensive for twice as much killing power.

 

10 Assault Marines, Thunder Hammer, 2 Flamers 240

 

10 Interceptors, Demon Hammer, 2 Psycannons 290

 

They are not shock troops they are still the cleaner/counter charge unit that Assault Marines are. They just do it better, alot better because now you can be a real threat to armor and also be right where you need them to be.

 

P.S. Oh and if your rebuke is that they have more CC attacks against invulnerable saves I will agree with you however, the difference is only 8% considering hammerhand. Which I feel is a fair offset as you can activate the Nemesis Force Weapons for Instant Death and call it even.

[Crynn]

I did some quick math, the Interceptor Squad is exactly TWICE as CC killy as a Vanilla Assault Squad because of NFW's. This doesn't include HH which would put them at about 2.5 times as killy in CC.

 

They also are at least Twice as shooty as vanilla because of double range and double shots.

 

Also Taking into consideration Upgrades, they are only 21 percent more expensive for twice as much killing power.

 

10 Assault Marines, Thunder Hammer, 2 Flamers 240

 

10 Interceptors, Demon Hammer, 2 Psycannons 290

 

They are not shock troops they are still the cleaner/counter charge unit that Assault Marines are. They just do it better, alot better because now you can be a real threat to armor and also be right where you need them to be.

 

P.S. Oh and if your rebuke is that they have more CC attacks against invulnerable saves I will agree with you however, the difference is only 8% considering hammerhand. Which I feel is a fair offset as you can activate the Nemesis Force Weapons for Instant Death and call it even.

 

I think you are missing valerians point some what.

 

Assault marines aren't good assault troops so comparing interceptors to them to show their combat capability is not really showing much. To add that if the assault marines were to charge something not in power armour such as orks, guard, dark eldar they will actually be more effective than the interceptors and if you are held up in combat then counter charged so neither the interceptors or the assault marines get the +1 attack then the assault marines by comparison perform better again. So they are not even better than assault marines in assault in many circumstances. BA assault amrine are the onyl ones that are actually reasonable assault troops.

 

Interceptors best ability is being able to redeploy anti infantry and light vehicle weapons on odd angles to hit side armour and stay out of charge range, yes they can charge to mop up if it is safe to do so however using them primarily for combat is not making the best use for them. Vanguard veterans are also a rather horrible unit unless they are BA ones in which case they are far better than interceptors. If falchions had been rules at +2 attacks interceptors could ahve seen combat however at only +1 for 10 points you are paying 36 points for a model significantly worse in combat than a 40 point sang guard and sang guard are not even considered a really strong combat unit. Take a grand master make them scoring and use them for what they are meant for. cracking open tank whittling down squads whilst staying safe themsleves and onyl charging if its to finish off certain units not as a primary form of attack.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Borinar]

Crynn...

 

I mentioned that Interceptors are not shock troops (assault troops).

 

Yes you are correct when you assault things with weaker armor than 3+ assault squads get better. Though you must have missed the statement that the Interceptors are 2 times as good, so sure an assault squad could break even going against a 6+ armor save but guess what those units usually have more going for them like multi wounds or high initiative so either they will die by force weapon or you should just hang back and shoot them. In the second scenario the Interceptors will pull ahead again as they have more range and avoid assault.

 

Your point about counter and multi charge is kind of moot as jump infantry units like these should pick thier fights (as in my definition of counter charge or mop up) so that you will fare better and can run at min squad numbers. Also +1 attack or not, ignoring an armor save beats an extra attack any day.

 

BA Assault Marines are different than vanilla. They can get FC/FNP and have access to melta weapons. They only difference that interceptors have is all force weapons versus non power weapon attacks, better shooting range. Both could be scoring so that is not even a comparison.

 

Ok if you want to bring up Vanguard Vets as a comparison then we have to step up and bring out the purifiers because that is the escalation your proposing and were not going there, this is about interceptors.

 

<sigh> your remark about falchions is not only digging up the dead horse but it is rediculous. If falchions were +2 attacks then guess what everyone else in the GK codex would be equally more powerful. So saying 2+ attacks would make them better is like saying 2+ attacks would make paladins better. Yes it would but thats not reality so please phase back in to current rules.

 

Again you bring up a unit that is not in the same class as the Interceptors, Sang Guard really? Why not compare them to paladins while were at it...

 

All you did was reinforce what I stated they are utility+. They do everything space marine assault squads do only better and then some. They kill more in shooting and close combat they can pop tanks like ba assault marines and having more range/shots means they can do it from farther away without a razorback to hide in. They should not be written off as a non CC unit as they can hang. Should you assault a full dedicated assault unit no, not on your best day. Should you hit a Full dedicated assault unit supporting one of your own yes of course. Why let 30 boys assault 10 Terminators when you can even the score with 5 more Knights. Then you can possibly sweep where the terminators cannot.

[genesis_rhapsod0s]

Crynn...

 

I mentioned that Interceptors are not shock troops (assault troops).

 

Yes you are correct when you assault things with weaker armor than 3+ assault squads get better. Though you must have missed the statement that the Interceptors are 2 times as good, so sure an assault squad could break even going against a 6+ armor save but guess what those units usually have more going for them like multi wounds or high initiative so either they will die by force weapon or you should just hang back and shoot them. In the second scenario the Interceptors will pull ahead again as they have more range and avoid assault.

 

Your point about counter and multi charge is kind of moot as jump infantry units like these should pick thier fights (as in my definition of counter charge or mop up) so that you will fare better and can run at min squad numbers. Also +1 attack or not, ignoring an armor save beats an extra attack any day.

 

BA Assault Marines are different than vanilla. They can get FC/FNP and have access to melta weapons. They only difference that interceptors have is all force weapons versus non power weapon attacks, better shooting range. Both could be scoring so that is not even a comparison.

 

Ok if you want to bring up Vanguard Vets as a comparison then we have to step up and bring out the purifiers because that is the escalation your proposing and were not going there, this is about interceptors.

 

<sigh> your remark about falchions is not only digging up the dead horse but it is rediculous. If falchions were +2 attacks then guess what everyone else in the GK codex would be equally more powerful. So saying 2+ attacks would make them better is like saying 2+ attacks would make paladins better. Yes it would but thats not reality so please phase back in to current rules.

 

Again you bring up a unit that is not in the same class as the Interceptors, Sang Guard really? Why not compare them to paladins while were at it...

 

All you did was reinforce what I stated they are utility+. They do everything space marine assault squads do only better and then some. They kill more in shooting and close combat they can pop tanks like ba assault marines and having more range/shots means they can do it from farther away without a razorback to hide in. They should not be written off as a non CC unit as they can hang. Should you assault a full dedicated assault unit no, not on your best day. Should you hit a Full dedicated assault unit supporting one of your own yes of course. Why let 30 boys assault 10 Terminators when you can even the score with 5 more Knights. Then you can possibly sweep where the terminators cannot.

 

I was originally the one to bring up the Vanguard Vets (I think...). I did that because on a points based level, Interceptors are their "equal." As with anything in C:GK, I would have to pick my battles with Interceptors. In my view they do work as a great mobile fire base, or they can work as a helpful asset to those "dedicated" assault units (I don't think there's a dedicated anything in GK...).

 

I will agree that bringing up rules that don't exist and units like Sanguinary Guard are beginning to step out of the scope of my question, but I do appreciate the input from all of you.

 

Also, the main reason I asked this question was because I am considering using Interceptors to help out my Draigowing at higher point values (mixing TDA and Power Armor!?!?!?! Heresy!!!!). It seems to me that mobility is one of the biggest flaws of Draigowing, and Interceptors would be a tremendous boost. Whatcha think?

[Crynn]

Crynn...

 

I mentioned that Interceptors are not shock troops (assault troops).

 

Yes you are correct when you assault things with weaker armor than 3+ assault squads get better. Though you must have missed the statement that the Interceptors are 2 times as good, so sure an assault squad could break even going against a 6+ armor save but guess what those units usually have more going for them like multi wounds or high initiative so either they will die by force weapon or you should just hang back and shoot them. In the second scenario the Interceptors will pull ahead again as they have more range and avoid assault.

 

So pretty much what I said they are there to shoot as a primary form of attack. and I'm pretty sure you will see more generic models with 5+and 6+ saves that aren't muti wound creatures of have rediculous initiative, So by usually you actually mean not that often think orks, guard, eldar adn dark eldar basic troops though dark eldar have i5 the assault squad still s perorms better than the interceptors. but again liek is aid you shoot not assault. Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

Your point about counter and multi charge is kind of moot as jump infantry units like these should pick thier fights (as in my definition of counter charge or mop up) so that you will fare better and can run at min squad numbers. Also +1 attack or not, ignoring an armor save beats an extra attack any day.

 

So like I said shooting again when they can't beat units in combat and be safe from return fire or counter charge you shoot. Congrats that is waht I said again, just shoot. Also +1 attack is only better against 3+ saves or better and 4+ saves if you charge. otherwise no it is not generally better. Do you know what is always better than the assault squad though? 16 storm bolter shots at str 5 and 4 psycannons shots.

 

BA Assault Marines are different than vanilla. They can get FC/FNP and have access to melta weapons. They only difference that interceptors have is all force weapons versus non power weapon attacks, better shooting range. Both could be scoring so that is not even a comparison.

 

I didn't bring up BA assault marines it was mentioned before and yes it is a comparison because BA assault marines are the only decent assault marines. Yes they can both be scoring but 1 requires a 175+ point unit and what happens if you roll a 1 for GS and there is another unit that you want to be scoring so the interceptors don't become scoring. It is a perfectly fine comparison.

 

 

Ok if you want to bring up Vanguard Vets as a comparison then we have to step up and bring out the purifiers because that is the escalation your proposing and were not going there, this is about interceptors.

 

Oh god your getting more idiotic. Do you read previous posts? I didn't ring up vanguard another person mentioned them. So no you don't ahve to bring in purifiers. also both are jump infatry that cost the around the same amount and take up the same force org slot, pretty comparable really.

 

<sigh> your remark about falchions is not only digging up the dead horse but it is rediculous. If falchions were +2 attacks then guess what everyone else in the GK codex would be equally more powerful. So saying 2+ attacks would make them better is like saying 2+ attacks would make paladins better. Yes it would but thats not reality so please phase back in to current rules.

 

Lol, put your tampon back in mate and keep the mood swings to a minimum. I was just giving an expample of what would have made falchions on interceptors good as a combat unit. Yes it would have made paladins better not that anyone except you mentioned that. I was just pointing out that at +1 attack for 10 points they are not enough to make the unit a cc unit by definition which is what this thread was about.

 

 

Again you bring up a unit that is not in the same class as the Interceptors, Sang Guard really? Why not compare them to paladins while were at it...

 

Context mate. we are looking at a sang guard model compared to an interceptor with falchions. They look pretty comparable mate, both have 2 attack with power weapons and have jump packs and are only 4pts different in price 36 - 40. yeah fine comparison as we asking if interceptors are assault troops and sang guard are. Just the sang guard are better point for point than interceptors with falchions, hence the comparison.

 

All you did was reinforce what I stated they are utility+. They do everything space marine assault squads do only better and then some. They kill more in shooting and close combat they can pop tanks like ba assault marines and having more range/shots means they can do it from farther away without a razorback to hide in. They should not be written off as a non CC unit as they can hang. Should you assault a full dedicated assault unit no, not on your best day. Should you hit a Full dedicated assault unit supporting one of your own yes of course. Why let 30 boys assault 10 Terminators when you can even the score with 5 more Knights. Then you can possibly sweep where the terminators cannot.

 

Never disagreed with that mate, and I never stated that you should write them off as useless in CC. All I said was it shoulnt be your primary form of attack with them. Sure jump them in to help out on combats or if they can hit a weak unit and survive the counter assault or better stay out of range of it. Maybe just chill a bit mate because other than what you wrote that was agreeing with what I already said, you just wrote crap about perfectly decent comparisons.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Borinar]

Mobility could be used to knock the legs from under your opponent.

 

What about more guns like OSR's, Conv Beamers and TL Lascannons to reach out and bad touch somebody?

[Crynn]

Crynn...

 

I mentioned that Interceptors are not shock troops (assault troops).

 

Yes you are correct when you assault things with weaker armor than 3+ assault squads get better. Though you must have missed the statement that the Interceptors are 2 times as good, so sure an assault squad could break even going against a 6+ armor save but guess what those units usually have more going for them like multi wounds or high initiative so either they will die by force weapon or you should just hang back and shoot them. In the second scenario the Interceptors will pull ahead again as they have more range and avoid assault.

 

Your point about counter and multi charge is kind of moot as jump infantry units like these should pick thier fights (as in my definition of counter charge or mop up) so that you will fare better and can run at min squad numbers. Also +1 attack or not, ignoring an armor save beats an extra attack any day.

 

BA Assault Marines are different than vanilla. They can get FC/FNP and have access to melta weapons. They only difference that interceptors have is all force weapons versus non power weapon attacks, better shooting range. Both could be scoring so that is not even a comparison.

 

Ok if you want to bring up Vanguard Vets as a comparison then we have to step up and bring out the purifiers because that is the escalation your proposing and were not going there, this is about interceptors.

 

<sigh> your remark about falchions is not only digging up the dead horse but it is rediculous. If falchions were +2 attacks then guess what everyone else in the GK codex would be equally more powerful. So saying 2+ attacks would make them better is like saying 2+ attacks would make paladins better. Yes it would but thats not reality so please phase back in to current rules.

 

Again you bring up a unit that is not in the same class as the Interceptors, Sang Guard really? Why not compare them to paladins while were at it...

 

All you did was reinforce what I stated they are utility+. They do everything space marine assault squads do only better and then some. They kill more in shooting and close combat they can pop tanks like ba assault marines and having more range/shots means they can do it from farther away without a razorback to hide in. They should not be written off as a non CC unit as they can hang. Should you assault a full dedicated assault unit no, not on your best day. Should you hit a Full dedicated assault unit supporting one of your own yes of course. Why let 30 boys assault 10 Terminators when you can even the score with 5 more Knights. Then you can possibly sweep where the terminators cannot.

 

I was originally the one to bring up the Vanguard Vets (I think...). I did that because on a points based level, Interceptors are their "equal." As with anything in C:GK, I would have to pick my battles with Interceptors. In my view they do work as a great mobile fire base, or they can work as a helpful asset to those "dedicated" assault units (I don't think there's a dedicated anything in GK...).

 

I will agree that bringing up rules that don't exist and units like Sanguinary Guard are beginning to step out of the scope of my question, but I do appreciate the input from all of you.

 

Also, the main reason I asked this question was because I am considering using Interceptors to help out my Draigowing at higher point values (mixing TDA and Power Armor!?!?!?! Heresy!!!!). It seems to me that mobility is one of the biggest flaws of Draigowing, and Interceptors would be a tremendous boost. Whatcha think?

 

Happy to help mate. I only brought the sang guard in to compare them to 36 point strike knights with falchions which anotehr person was looking at, normally i agree theya re not comparable. On a side note I have used interceptors to go with draigowing plenty of times and theya re fantastic, offering great fire support and the ability to get far away objectives that paladins cannot reach. They can also be use to assist in combat or even as a bait unit for people to charge to bring them close to the paladins. I would definitely recommend interceptors in a draigowing list, you just have to be carefull with how you use them as they aren't particularly surviveable for their cost.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[genesis_rhapsod0s]

Mobility could be used to knock the legs from under your opponent.

 

What about more guns like OSR's, Conv Beamers and TL Lascannons to reach out and bad touch somebody?

 

I'm going back and forth on that to be honest. I was considering a Psyrifle Dread (well 2 honestly), and I may go with at least one, but my main concern was when my primary deathstar unit got bogged down with a particularly tenacious assault unit. Interceptors seem like the perfect way to solve that problem, and IMHO they serve to at least begin bringing Draigowing into the semi-competitive playing field.

 

I would like a Conversion Beamer in my list, however, I can't figure out how to convert one! I also can't find any autocannons on line to do the Rifleman conversion on my dread...

[Borinar]

I think chapterhouse has a conversion beamer that looks neat.

[Borinar]

So like I said shooting again when they can't beat units in combat and be safe from return fire or counter charge you shoot. Congrats that is waht I said again, just shoot. Also +1 attack is only better against 3+ saves or better and 4+ saves if you charge. otherwise no it is not generally better. Do you know what is always better than the assault squad though? 16 storm bolter shots at str 5 and 4 psycannons shots.

 

Ok, I'll try to be very clear on this. +1 attack on a model with normal attacks is never better than a model with power weapon attacks with the same base attacks.

 

Furthermore here is a number I hope you can jive with. Assume your going after a 10 man tactical squad. You take your 10 assault marines kitted out like I posted above and shoot your little heart out, then you assault and fight your little fingers off. You should kill about 3-4 Marines total. You take the Interceptor Squad I listed above and do the same and you should bag 4 in shooting alone then in the ensuing combat they can net about 5 kills.

 

The only time they get close in CC is against invulnerable saves and unless your trying to take on TH/SS Terminators the Invulnerable save wont be that great and the kills from shooting alone will over take the assault squad again.

 

I dont play BA's so I am unfamiliar with the unit price however in my Vanilla Codex 10 Vanguard Vets with base weapons and Jump Packs alone costs 325.

 

With the base loadout they could only do maybe 3 kills in CC to the Interceptors 5. Comparing the initial cost of about 12% Before weapons that would barely start to make them comparable.

 

Just because Interceptors are not Purifiers with Wings doesnt mean they are slouches in combat. Yes they are slow with Ini4 and halberds are expensive. But they can still dig deep and do some damage when needed. Should you rely on them to be your Fist no, they are the elbow you follow through with.

[Crynn]

So like I said shooting again when they can't beat units in combat and be safe from return fire or counter charge you shoot. Congrats that is waht I said again, just shoot. Also +1 attack is only better against 3+ saves or better and 4+ saves if you charge. otherwise no it is not generally better. Do you know what is always better than the assault squad though? 16 storm bolter shots at str 5 and 4 psycannons shots.

 

Ok, I'll try to be very clear on this. +1 attack on a model with normal attacks is never better than a model with power weapon attacks with the same base attacks.

 

Furthermore here is a number I hope you can jive with. Assume your going after a 10 man tactical squad. You take your 10 assault marines kitted out like I posted above and shoot your little heart out, then you assault and fight your little fingers off. You should kill about 3-4 Marines total. You take the Interceptor Squad I listed above and do the same and you should bag 4 in shooting alone then in the ensuing combat they can net about 5 kills.

 

The only time they get close in CC is against invulnerable saves and unless your trying to take on TH/SS Terminators the Invulnerable save wont be that great and the kills from shooting alone will over take the assault squad again.

 

I dont play BA's so I am unfamiliar with the unit price however in my Vanilla Codex 10 Vanguard Vets with base weapons and Jump Packs alone costs 325.

 

With the base loadout they could only do maybe 3 kills in CC to the Interceptors 5. Comparing the initial cost of about 12% Before weapons that would barely start to make them comparable.

 

Just because Interceptors are not Purifiers with Wings doesnt mean they are slouches in combat. Yes they are slow with Ini4 and halberds are expensive. But they can still dig deep and do some damage when needed. Should you rely on them to be your Fist no, they are the elbow you follow through with.

 

Ok lets amke this clear +1 attack on a base unit is better in combat than 1 attack with a power weapon against any armour save of 5+ or 6+, so no the power weapon isn't always better, pelase do the math. Against 4+ saves if its just a straight combat the 2 attacks is also better ebcause it will force more wounds meaning they may have to allocate those attacks to models with special weapons where as the half as many wounds done by the power weapons may not get to the fist.

 

Other than that I never said interceptors were slouches in combat I just said they are better shooters. And stop presuming we are charging 10 amrines all the time because you won't be charging 10 marines all the time. Yes the intercpetors do better against marines but I never disagreed with you. You don't read what people actually post. Regarding vangguard they cost 315 in ba list and are very reliable and have accurate deep strike thus are very lucky to pull of charges. yes they are expensie but so are interceptors, my interseptors run with 2 psy cannons a hammer and psybolt at 310 points great shooters, average at best in assault. Vang guard are good because of theior ability to hit back field unit and always come in at full strength. interceptors can do they same thing but it is done through shooting not combat, shunt to weak back field unit then blow it away at range.

 

Regards,

Crynn