GK Interceptors

[Borinar]

Ok ill buy part of that, only and I mean only at a 6+ armor save does the extra attack pull ahead and by a small margin. But guess what if you shoot and assault you still have better damage potential than the normal attacks. I was looking at a round of combat with shooting and assaulting combined.

 

This is just like the power weapon versus the Lightning Claw, the Power Weapon (with the extra attack) is only better than the claw versus Grots other than that the Claw is superior.

 

You have your one scenario where the extra attack is better so they must always be better right?

[yperihitikos]

shooting phase:

 

10 assault marines 0.83 kills

10 interceptors 1.66 kills 200% better

 

 

assault phase:

 

attack 10 assault marines 2.50 kills

defence 10 interceptors 2.50 kills Equal

 

attack 10 interceptors 5.00 kills

defence 10 assault marines 1.66 kills 300% better

 

or

 

attack 10 interceptors 5.00 kills

attack 10 assault marines 2.50 kills 200% better

 

defence 10 interceptors 2.50 kills

defence 10 assault marines 1.66 kills 150% better

 

 

interceptors/assault marines cost 137% more expensive

 

 

 

You would expect that interceptors are better assault units because they cost less than what others can do. It is true, but the biggest difference is their role in the army. Their primary use is to provide fast fire support and contest (or capture) objectives. You want them alive. If you use transports you don't need them and you can't afford them. If you play foot lists, they are mandatory. You need their shunt move and you still can't afford to lose them. So, they may be better in cc but you need them alive in the last turns. In cc you will lose more interceptors than from shooting. That's why they should almost never be in cc.

[le_tiss]

Always only either used 5 Assault marines in my DA force with a chaplain (10 was too big a footprint IMO). The chaplain made the unit worthwhile and provided ablative bodies for him. The Vet serg was power sword or power fist!

 

Using a DA codex I do not get to play about with a Flamer for them (only PP) thus 5 man Interceptor + Incin would be interesting for me to see, would you not keep them swords and halberds for I and Parry or would it be worth going down the Falchions route for them. Justicar with Hammer or leave with Halberd?

 

thanks in advance

[thade]

Assault Marines are better equipped for melee than Tac squads in two ways: the offhand weapon - while not epic - is substantially better for close-quarters combat than not having one...twice the number of attacks as rounds go on; and improved mobility, i.e. jump packs. (We'll leave packless assault marines out for our purposes. <3)

 

Interceptors can be equipped in a similar way, giving them the same advantages over Strike Squads that Assault Marines have over Tactical Marines: twice as many attacks as combat endures (and more hitting power on the charge) and enhanced mobility (helping them towards ensuring a charge as well as increasing their effective coverage rage, i.e. how many Strike Squads can they assist).

 

Both squads (when the latter is equipped for melee) are excellent at counter-charging; they can hang back, behind the gun-line/tank wall, and then they can either leap out of their hard cover to intercept an enemy unit (before it can charge) or counter-charge into an in-progress assault (for those times that the enemy does get the charge).

 

That said, Assault Teams are better at moving than they are at killing in assaults, so it's best to save that charge for when it's absolutely necessary or you're absolutely sure you'll win...otherwise, hop them around to offer support fire (i.e. overlapping flamer templates, melta guns, etc.). Interceptors are far better at shooting than assault teams, even without any upgrades (due to Storm Bolters). Better yet, you can give them some really great ranged upgrades (Psycannons and Incinerators) meaning you have a unit that will have an easier time than most getting to flanks to contribute supporting fire to groups or get shots off on side/rear armor.

 

Interceptor squads hit harder in melee than Assault Squads (Force Weapons) and shoot better than Assault Squads (SBs, upgrades). They're very, very nice.

 

Are they assault troops? They sure can be.

[Something Wycked]

While your ideas are correct, yperihitikos, your percentages are off. In your first example,

 

10 assault marines 0.83 kills

10 interceptors 1.66 kills 200% better

 

If you have exactly 100% of something, you have an equal amount. If you have a 100% increase, you have twice as much. In your example, since they cause twice as many kills you have a 100% increase. For the later examples, A 200% increase is three times as much.

 

__________________________________

 

As has been said already in this thread, Interceptors are not made to assault unless 1) they have to or 2) they stand an excellent chance of winning the assault. Interceptors are something that no other Marine codex possesses- jump pack equipped Tactical squads.

 

I might blow your mind here, so hold on. In my opinion, point for point, Interceptors are the best unit in the codex. The. Best.

 

Interceptors have all of the firepower of the Strike Squad. Comparing full squads of 10, if you buy a Rhino for the Strikes then the Interceptors are only 20 points more for the unit. This is the price you pay to be able to fire at full effectiveness even whilst traversing the board instead of only allowing two models to fire from the top hatch of the Rhino... and it is also the price of the Shunt move. Mobile firepower with extra mobility icing? Yes please! They even have the same psychic powers and gear. The only edge that Strikes have over Interceptors is that they're Troops instead of Fast Attack.

 

Let's now compare Interceptors to Terminators. Terminators are 35% more expensive than Interceptors providing the same amount of bodies, access to free/cheaper melee weapon upgrades, improved saves, an additional base attack and leadership. And marginally more firepower if both squads are taking Psycannons and the Interceptors are moving. What do the Interceptors have over the Terminators? Mobility. Mobility is the king of warfare. If your units are out of position then they cannot affect your battle plan in a positive way- they will be out of firing range or out of assault range or unable to find cover easily enough through lack of movement range. To solve that problem, Terminators must either purchase an expensive transport or depend on a well-placed Deep Strike. Failing those, they must be walked across the board, the epitome of lack of mobility. Interceptors will be where you need them every time you call on them providing the same amount of firepower at a 35% discount.

 

Purifiers? Comparing geared squads, Purifiers are about the same cost as Interceptors. Unless you give them a transport, and then they're accordingly more expensive. What do you get for the cost? Double the special ranged weapons, cheaper melee upgrades, bonus attack and leadership, and an assaulty psychic power. What do they not have? Mobility. If you give them mobility via a transport, they're now more expensive and decidedly do not have a firepower advantage over the Interceptors until they get set up in a fairly static position- at which point they lose their mobility.

 

Interceptors are the best unit in the codex for the fulfillment of the main battle line mission with their blend of mobility, firepower, and versatility.

[genesis_rhapsod0s]

While your ideas are correct, yperihitikos, your percentages are off. In your first example,

 

10 assault marines 0.83 kills

10 interceptors 1.66 kills 200% better

 

If you have exactly 100% of something, you have an equal amount. If you have a 100% increase, you have twice as much. In your example, since they cause twice as many kills you have a 100% increase. For the later examples, A 200% increase is three times as much.

 

__________________________________

 

As has been said already in this thread, Interceptors are not made to assault unless 1) they have to or 2) they stand an excellent chance of winning the assault. Interceptors are something that no other Marine codex possesses- jump pack equipped Tactical squads.

 

I might blow your mind here, so hold on. In my opinion, point for point, Interceptors are the best unit in the codex. The. Best.

 

Interceptors have all of the firepower of the Strike Squad. Comparing full squads of 10, if you buy a Rhino for the Strikes then the Interceptors are only 20 points more for the unit. This is the price you pay to be able to fire at full effectiveness even whilst traversing the board instead of only allowing two models to fire from the top hatch of the Rhino... and it is also the price of the Shunt move. Mobile firepower with extra mobility icing? Yes please! They even have the same psychic powers and gear. The only edge that Strikes have over Interceptors is that they're Troops instead of Fast Attack.

 

Let's now compare Interceptors to Terminators. Terminators are 35% more expensive than Interceptors providing the same amount of bodies, access to free/cheaper melee weapon upgrades, improved saves, an additional base attack and leadership. And marginally more firepower if both squads are taking Psycannons and the Interceptors are moving. What do the Interceptors have over the Terminators? Mobility. Mobility is the king of warfare. If your units are out of position then they cannot affect your battle plan in a positive way- they will be out of firing range or out of assault range or unable to find cover easily enough through lack of movement range. To solve that problem, Terminators must either purchase an expensive transport or depend on a well-placed Deep Strike. Failing those, they must be walked across the board, the epitome of lack of mobility. Interceptors will be where you need them every time you call on them providing the same amount of firepower at a 35% discount.

 

Purifiers? Comparing geared squads, Purifiers are about the same cost as Interceptors. Unless you give them a transport, and then they're accordingly more expensive. What do you get for the cost? Double the special ranged weapons, cheaper melee upgrades, bonus attack and leadership, and an assaulty psychic power. What do they not have? Mobility. If you give them mobility via a transport, they're now more expensive and decidedly do not have a firepower advantage over the Interceptors until they get set up in a fairly static position- at which point they lose their mobility.

 

Interceptors are the best unit in the codex for the fulfillment of the main battle line mission with their blend of mobility, firepower, and versatility.

 

+6

 

You sir have just solidified my decision. Draigo, pallies, Interceptors, and Psyfle Dreads.

[breng77]

I have to disagree that Interceptors are the best unit in the codex. For PA Grey knights Purifiers have them by a fairly large margin.

 

Comparing 10 man squads

 

For 310 you get 10 Interceptors with one hammer, 2 Psycannons, and Psybolts (the only way interceptors are close to being as effective at shooting as Purifiers.)

 

For 335 (25 points more) you get 10 Purifiers with one hammer, 5 Halberds, and 4 Psycannons in a Rhino.

 

Interceptors have the advantage of mobility as they can move further, and can move 12 every turn and fire (at best Purifiers could do this every other turn, and if their ride dies they cannot do it at all), they also have warp quake which can be situationally useful, can deepstrike, and are from a force org slot with only one other choice (though I rarely have trouble in the GK codex of not having enough slots).

 

Purifiers have the added durability afforded by their transport, can do more damage in shooting when not moving and similar damage when moving (they are more likely to rend), they are better at killing vehicles at range, they have 9 additional close combat attacks (2 of which are power weapon attacks), they are far better in CC against hordes, and they are fearless (which means they don't run interceptors run 3 D6 if they should fail morale).

 

Interceptors are certainly good and fill a role in your army, but they are hardly the best unit, at 5 men the difference in abilities is even greater as at that point psybolts are not worth the points.

[Crynn]

I agree in part with both of you.

 

If I could make one unit troops in codex it would be interceptors then, well the game would break, using GMs to make them scoring is fine but they cant be the main component to your force as GM is slower and will walk with a slow unit or be transported in an expensive transport and cant keep up with the interceptors. I think point for point the purifiers are better however I think their roll is done just as well by paladins who for twice the cost are 4 times as tough to average fire power and can move and shoot psycannons to the same effect. It is not a direct match up but I believe other units in the dex can help forfil the purifiers roll . For Intercptors this is not true.

 

As something Wyked said "mobility is the king of 40k" and this staands true for most armies. When I created my current BA list I would always look at my opponents army and think he has more bodies, more guns or more combat how can I beat that? But because of my speed and ability to move and shoot at full effect each turn I always engaged in the fire fight on my turn essentially almaost always getting the first round of shooting, always being able to get cover saves from my own vehicles or terrain a lot of the time those were 3+ cover save, I also could hit my opponents side armour and negate their cover saves. When I had weakend them to a certain point I would then be able to finish them off in melee, being so much fast with meh a lib dread and other assault elements I could always hit a flank, or create hug multicharges make sure each assault element hit it's optimal target and this was consistantly winning me game I thought I could not win.

 

This was all because of mobility. my units were tougher because they were mobile effectively avoiding weapons and getting better save and hit harder, either getting the charge or hitting side armour and ignoring my opponents saves. With that in mind it is hard to mathamatically prove why interceptors as troops would just break the game however a good general with that much mobility on shooting units for only an additional 60pts for 10 guys (Who are also combat capable for mop ups) would have a very profound effect on the meta game I believe.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[genesis_rhapsod0s]

I prefer Interceptors over Purifiers within that mobile support role simply due to the fact that the Interceptors could move and fire every turn, while the Purifiers would have to deal with the hassle of transport shenanigans.

 

Truth be told, that's one of the primary reasons I started looking at Interceptors. I just kind of hate the idea of transports being used as actual transports. Sure, it's convenient once or twice, but it feels overly cumbersome to me. I would rather be able to move 12" and shoot every turn rather than having to wait around. Again, that's just my personal opinion.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Interceptors are definitely not the best infantry unit in our codex. They are best at the mobile fire support role certainly, but they fall down in a lot of other areas. Firstly, no transport means they are exposed to enemy fire (sure you give up storm bolter dakka when you mech up, but only for the turns you are moving into position), and due to their mobility, it's unlikely they'll be within 'Shrouding' range (because by definition, in order to be utilising their superior mobility, you'll be ranging ahead of your main phalanx). They are no more durable than Tactical Marines against enemy dakka, and in assault they only hit at I4 (unless you pay for halberds, which jumps their cost up immensely).

 

I don't think there is any one best unit. Our various squads are designed to work in concert, not just be spammed relentlessly (except maybe Purifiers or Draigowing). Strikers bring cheapest bodies and dakka and deny objectives by scoring and 'Quaking' enemy DS assaults. Purifiers lay down lots of dakka, then 'Cleansing Flame' and halberd the survivors. Terminators advance in 10-man blobs and give the enemy fits. Paladins walk through insane amounts of fire and do both fire support and close-combat well.

[thade]

Whether or not they are the "best infantry unit in the codex" (I don't believe they are, but it's not really important either way), Interceptors are a great unit. Just like a marine jump team, they can very quickly reposition themselves to offer support fire and melee to any of your other teams that are on point. What's better than a unit of Purifiers? A unit of Purifiers with Interceptors backing them up.

 

"But, Thade!" you say to me. "Why not just take more Purifiers?"

 

You, my friend, are thinking in a vacuum. <3

 

Certainly two Purifier squads are better (in some cases, perhaps many) than a squad of Purifiers with a squad of Interceptors. But do you know what's better than two squads of Purifiers? Two squads of Purifiers with an Interceptor squad to support them both.

 

See where I'm going with this? One unit of Interceptors - with their increased mobility and superior on-the-move shooting - is excellent support for your slogging units. Interceptors have their uses as a support unit for sure.

[Something Wycked]

You've actually proven my point for me, breng :P Here's how.

 

Interceptors have the advantage of mobility as they can move further, and can move 12 every turn and fire (at best Purifiers could do this every other turn, and if their ride dies they cannot do it at all), they also have warp quake which can be situationally useful, can deepstrike, and are from a force org slot with only one other choice (though I rarely have trouble in the GK codex of not having enough slots).

Beautifully put.

 

Purifiers have the added durability afforded by their transport...

In the current meta of 40k, everyone and their mother's cousin brings mech. Therefore, everyone and their monkey's uncle brings tools to kill mech. That Rhino is a paper box unless you get lucky and the opponent's rolls fail to do anything significant to it. This is the exception, not the norm.

 

Said another way, that Rhino will last until your opponent's anti-tank weapons do the job he brought them for. In playing a friend of mine who plays CSM, I've never failed to immobilize or destroy his heretical Rhinos on turn 1. Turn 1 every game. The squads he needs to speed across the board instead spend the game walking around and picking flowers, ignored until it is convenient for me to take them on. (He has since stopped taking Rhinos in his lists and consequently our games are much more challenging now :) )

 

Let's compare. Turn 1, the Purifiers' transport is destroyed and they spend the first half of the game getting to midfield so they can effectively engage the enemy. The same weapons are fired at the squad of Interceptors who lose a couple models but are otherwise still very combat capable- and still very, very mobile.

 

The mobility is key. With a sufficiently mobile force you can engage any piece of the enemy's army that you like, at any time that you like. Simultaneously you can minimize the parts of the enemy's army that might be able to counterattack your troops. Your units dance out of range of the things you don't want to engage while retaining the ability to go anywhere and kill any unit that is a threat to your force.

 

No other unit in the codex has that capability. (Even Stormravens lack the survivability with only one "wound" before they die.) Dreadknights with PT's come close, of course, but their larger size and Monstrous Creature type make them less agile for the purpose of doing the Interceptor's job. But they do make for excellent companions to the Interceptors :(

[yperihitikos]

While your ideas are correct, yperihitikos, your percentages are off. In your first example,

 

10 assault marines 0.83 kills

10 interceptors 1.66 kills 200% better

 

If you have exactly 100% of something, you have an equal amount. If you have a 100% increase, you have twice as much. In your example, since they cause twice as many kills you have a 100% increase. For the later examples, A 200% increase is three times as much.

 

 

Come on.

 

10 assault marines 0.83 kills

10 interceptors 1.66 kills 200% (better)

 

Is it ok for you now?

[breng77]

In the current meta of 40k, everyone and their mother's cousin brings mech. Therefore, everyone and their monkey's uncle brings tools to kill mech. That Rhino is a paper box unless you get lucky and the opponent's rolls fail to do anything significant to it. This is the exception, not the norm.

 

While this is true to an extent, I find my Rhinos seldom die on turn 1 (I just played at the NOVA and my2 Rhinos died a grand total of maybe 4 times in 8 games. It all comes down to

a.) do you have terrain on the board to block some shooting and get cover.

b.) Do you provide other threats to the opponent. Most players spent time shooting at my Razorbacks, and Dreads first. This allowed my Purifiers to get where they needed to be which is midfield, which you can accomplish by turn 2.

c.) Penetration rolls, destroying all of someones vehicles on turn 1 requires a good deal of luck, first you need to hit, then actually penetrate, then roll at least a 4,5, 6 to achieve a roll the rhino actually cares about.

d.) Having interceptors exposed to shooting means that if they jump out they are likely to die to enemy fire. Especially if the opponent has better range, or equal mobility.

 

Everyone brings mech for a reason, right now it is highly durable, and it gets the job done in many cases.

[thade]

People still use assault marines, because their mobility persists as long as they do. No single lucky lascannon shot from that Bored Backfield Objective Camper is going to reduce them to 6". If another unit needs support, they can get there. Transports are great against small arms fire, but then a unit with 3+ saves in it is also pretty durable against small arms fire. A tac squad's full boltgun volley is not going to wipe out your Interceptor team (unless you have a very bad round of rolling in the same go that your opponent has a very, very good round of rollling).

 

They have a function and they're useful for it.

[Something Wycked]

....... Eureka!

 

Thanks to this thread I've thought up a new variation for my lists. Instead of Strikes|Interceptors|PTDreadknights and spend a lot on a Grand Master, I can bring Crowe and do Purifiers|Interceptors|PTDKs...

 

Either way, face-shooting Interceptors backed up by face-hacking Dreadknights and a couple foot units to effectively hold objectives.

 

Because, as everyone knows, Interceptors are the best unit in the codex ;)

 

Actually, yperihitikos, you had it right since 1.66 is 200% of 0.83... I'm just used to reading percentages as "increases," and 1.66 is a 100% increase from 0.83. Sorry, I tend to jump into corrections instead of examining different angles :P

[barenone]

For what it is worth I love my interceptors I play them a little different though. I am running a 5 man squad with 4 falchions and an incinerator. So a little weaken with the incinerator then I do assault. I use this mainly to kill devastators and lock other units in combat. The part I do different is I have my nemesis dredknight run with them. I treat him like he’s attached although technically he isn’t; this adds his heavy psycannon heavy incinerator and his great sword to the shooting and assault phases with my interceptors. playing like that I completely cleared out a blood angels army by round 4 using them and dropping everyone else from my storm raven, (which couldn’t be shot down because I took out there heavy weapons with my inter/dread combo. It won’t always work but hey it’s still another way to use them more or less. Btw I did also have my vindicare taking pot shots at the other heavy weapons.

[grimz]

While your ideas are correct, yperihitikos, your percentages are off. In your first example,

 

10 assault marines 0.83 kills

10 interceptors 1.66 kills 200% better

 

If you have exactly 100% of something, you have an equal amount. If you have a 100% increase, you have twice as much. In your example, since they cause twice as many kills you have a 100% increase. For the later examples, A 200% increase is three times as much.

 

 

Come on.

 

10 assault marines 0.83 kills

10 interceptors 1.66 kills 200% (better)

 

Is it ok for you now?

 

Your statement is confusing, to me it reads as if you are saying they have a 200% Improvement over Assault Marines... a less confusing statement is they are "twice as good" or a 100% Improvement.