Brother_Dan'l Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Had my first experience with these abominations today. And I just wanted to make sure they were used properly. A unit consisting of a GK Libbie, TechMarine and a bunch of =I= henchmen charged my 31 man IG blob. The Tech had a Psychotroke and it effected my entire unit. Really? Not just those in contact with the Tech, the whole blob. What empty headed twit decided GK should be the ultimate answer to enemy CC. My god, combined with Purifiers how in the hell do you not take these grenades and auto win every CC you get into. Psyflemen, I get. Scary, cool CC weapons options and the ability to flip the bird to enemy psykers I get. But a grenade that guarantees (pretty damn close anyway) victory wether you are charged or make the charge is a bit much. Very disappointing when I had thought it was such a cool and, at first blush, balanced codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borinar Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Yes the whole unit, did they attack each other or just stand around and get knifed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2860682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 If it makes you feel any better, psycho-troke grenades used to be called Hallucinogen grenades back in 2nd edition. They even had the same flavor text. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2860684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Yep, they are pretty good. But they don't guarantee that you auto win combat. I have a purifier deathstar with a cheap Inquisitor running Psychostroke & Rad Grenades, and I totally monstered an Ork Nob squad, only to be decimated by loota shooting the next turn. Bottom line: Just shoot 'em Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2860686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Yep, they are pretty good. But they don't guarantee that you auto win combat. Quite; for starters, there's the ever-present chance that they'll do absolutely nothing. not to mention that some of the other effects can be a bit lackluster against certain opponents (Ld penalties against units that are stubborn/fearless, Initiative penalty against a unit you'd hit first against anyway, etc). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2860717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Did the GK player whine, when your mighty IG artillery opened up fire too? All armies have their strengths and weaknesses. The GK have a few tricks up their sleeves to make up for their low number, while the guard have big guns and numbers. :P The GK are a new army - you obviously haven't fought them a lot - fight them a few times more and learn. Half the fun of playing this game comes from having to think and adapt your tactics to take on different enemies. .. Psychotrokes are very random, some times they're devastating, other times they have no effect at all. What they do have is lots of fun and flavor, just take a look at the table, and see how many of the results would have had no discernible effect on that particular fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2860834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 The only result on the table that would not have maimed me was a 1. The fact that a single 15 point purchase effects an entire combat, regardless of which side charged, is what gets my goat. And what if two models have the grenades? Do you roll twice and apply both results? Don't get me wrong, I think most of the Codex is marvelous. But there are some things that seem to have hit the Law of Unintended Consequences square between the eyes. What horde player stands a chance against Purifiers? And Psychotroke is just silly in the way that one model can effect so many in so many different units in a single combat. But everyone on his side remembers to hold their breath? :) I think most of my problem was that it was my eighth game in two days and I was damned tired. So having a magic "I own you" toy sprung on me really was more than I could stomach. That and the dreadful cookie cutterness of certain parts of the 4 GK armies I faced. While each had variations in Troops and HQs they all used the three Psyfleman + two Stormraven mix. May as well been puppies with Thunder Wolves and Long Fangs. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2860892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I was recently playing a mirror match versus another GK player. My Eversor charged the Paladin squad (all reduced to one wound apiece due to shooting). The enemy Techmarine had a pyskotropic grenade - I rolled a 1 and the Eversor killed the entire squad including the Techmarine. :cuss * Cha ching * G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2860981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 If only. :P Ah, well. At least I learned an important fact about Henchmen units stuffed to the gills with Death Cultists. They are better than IG power blobs in CC, particularly when accompanied by a Techmarine with fancy shmancy grenades. :P God help me if I ever run into Purifiers with a LSD grenade carrier. I doubt I'd even live thru the first round of combat. And pity the poor Ork player who fields a Green Tide in Apocalypse. He could lose the whole bloody unit in a single turn to two minimum sized units of Purifiers. With or without some minor character and his drug bombs. It would take quite a force of will not to quit 40K completely after that sort of fiasco. Man alive, GK are cool. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 It would take quite a force of will not to quit 40K completely after that sort of fiasco. I dunno about you, but I actually like to control my units in 40k, rather then have a grenade make them utterly useless for only 15pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 It would take quite a force of will not to quit 40K completely after that sort of fiasco. I dunno about you, but I actually like to control my units in 40k, rather then have a grenade make them utterly useless for only 15pts. Well, they don't render your army useless for 15 pts. They're a 15 pt. upgrade to an already expensive character, who has joined an already expensive unit on top of that. :yes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 It would take quite a force of will not to quit 40K completely after that sort of fiasco. I dunno about you, but I actually like to control my units in 40k, rather then have a grenade make them utterly useless for only 15pts. Well, they don't render your army useless for 15 pts. They're a 15 pt. upgrade to an already expensive character, who has joined an already expensive unit on top of that. :P Unless of course you chuck them on a xenos inquisitor with rad grenades as well. That then becomes a pretty cheap HQ. Xenos Inquisitor with 7 purifiers 4 halberds, 2 psycannons and a hammer in rhino 305 points not a massive amount. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 "Pretty cheap" for a T4, I3 PA'd or worse model that can be singled out in combat. These grenades are nasty but they are not broken. Focus fire whatever unit is carrying it if you need to; try to avoid assault with it if you're not sure you can PF that IC off the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The last 3 power armoured Codex books ( :P ) have some awesome units and pieces of kit, which I believe is a theme we can see creeping into every Codex from now on. Comparison of the recent 5th edition books shows a trend. That being said, particularly Imperial Guard, I feel 5th edition Codex books are all fairly good against each other. Of course this is open for debate. The only thing I don't like about Grey Knights is the cheap Psybolts on vehicles and their special grenades can be used in both defensive and attacking assaults. I think that's the real issue with the Psychotroke grenades. Personally I would love to get hold of Rad grenades for my Ultramarines. Or squad standard issue Vortex grenades! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Cheap Psybolt-ammo on vehicles isn't so bad (it does deprive them of Defensive Weaponry, as S5 guns no longer fit the mold for that). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 That being said, particularly Imperial Guard, I feel 5th edition Codex books are all fairly good against each other. Of course this is open for debate. I agree seems like most of the newer codex books have options that can make them viable against any other 5th ed. books if built/played well. The older ones on the other hand.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 No one is forcing anyone to take the grenades. I have to say I really love them. Rad grenades nuke Paladins real fast. :lol: G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I'm not sure I'd charge Paladins even if I did have Rad Grenades and a mass of Hammerhanded DCA. But then again, that does sound like 1. a bad idea; 2. a lot of fun; now that I say it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Mass of Hammerhand DCA's with Rad Grenades? Complete win against the Paladins. The best the Pallies can hope for is their Halberds to strike simultaneously, unless we're throwing a Libby in there for some Quicksilver love. 48 attacks that hit on 4's and wound on 2's and reduce the Pallies to their bad save. That's potentially a lot of dead pallies, for a little more than 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost. Unless you factor in the DCA's transport, of course :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 If it makes you feel any better, psycho-troke grenades used to be called Hallucinogen grenades back in 2nd edition. They even had the same flavor text. Oh puhhhleeze. At least back then they had no effect on sealed armor. And the idea that you could be surrounded by 100 Orks who are all effected while the 10 guys standing with you are not is so preposterous as to be painful. Yes, I know. Game in outer space, blah, blah. But sometimes GW writes game rules with as much common sense as the US Congress writes laws. :) @Heretic: And no he didn't "whine" when my 160 point artillery fired and killed a couple of guys a shot. If it actually hit. And if they failed their cover save. :unsure: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The only result on the table that would not have maimed me was a 1. With Guard, the initiative hit is a pretty minor deal (the GK are already going first anyway) and the Leadership penalty will often be a non-issue since you're either stubborn from a Commissar, or losing close combat against melee specialist units by enough wounds that you'll be testing morale at an effective Ld 2 anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 So it's ok for something to be ridiculously over powered if *some* of the results are less good against units you would already trash? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The only result on the table that would not have maimed me was a 1. With Guard, the initiative hit is a pretty minor deal (the GK are already going first anyway) and the Leadership penalty will often be a non-issue since you're either stubborn from a Commissar, or losing close combat against melee specialist units by enough wounds that you'll be testing morale at an effective Ld 2 anyway. I think the psychotrokes can get past stubborn as stubborn only stops negative modifiers I believe where as psychotrokes 'set' your ld at 2. I agree psychotrokes are mental for their cost. I never leave home without them. I've been sitting quietly while people went on about rad grenades for ages just thinking to myself, 'If only they had the slightest clue on how better to spend those 15 points'. Unfortunately now people have clued in to the roll a d6 and 'x' results means 'I WIN!' grenades. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Unfortunately now people have clued in to the roll a d6 and \'x\' results means \'I WIN!\' grenades. Regards, Crynn The literal \"I win\" button :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I think the psychotrokes can get past stubborn as stubborn only stops negative modifiers I believe where as psychotrokes 'set' your ld at 2.Yes they do work like that, says so right in the FAQ :P. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237260-psychotroke-grenades-p/#findComment-2861555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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