Galorn Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Well This shalt be the Log of my Efforts for constructing Terrain for a custom table to be used at Da BoyzGT 2011 2 Large ruins (three level, three floor. apx 20"x10"x meh" triangle) Lruin 1 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) Lruin 2 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) 5 Medium Ruins (two level, two floor apx 12"x 6" triangle) Mruin 1 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) Mruin 2 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) Mruin 3 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) Mruin 4 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) Mruin 5 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) 3 Small Ruins (two level, two story Apx 6" by 6" triangle) Sruin 1 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) Sruin 2 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) Sruin 3 (cast, Assembled, Spackled, Sanded, Pre Paint Detail added, Primed, Painted, Weathered, Posterized ) 1 Sandbag Fort Sandbag fort 3 Barricades (cast) Barricade 1 Barricade 2 1 Rubble pile Rubble pile Casting in progress http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/P1090362.jpg Finished components http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/P1090365.jpg The Casting Set up http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090393.jpg Closer to the molds http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090397.jpg Next new mold in progress (Barricades, and Small wall with no windows.) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090400.jpg Overview of Stuff in molds http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090402.jpg Cast building components http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090417.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090415.jpg Cast Barricade components http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090407.jpg Casting progress table overview http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090410.jpg Big Bag o Rubble (left over dental stone broken up a bit) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090411.jpg for perspective Each Large ruin uses 1 Door, and 13 Small walls (windows, or non windows) Each Medium Ruin Uses 1 Door and 5 Small walls (windows, or non windows) Each Small Ruin uses 4 Small walls (windows, or non windows) Each Barricade is 2 pieces (one cast worth, from the mold with them in it) The Rubble pile is a pile of excess dental stone on foam (easy as hell to do) The "sandbag fort" will be either molded then cast Sandbags, or Sculpey sandbags. Teaser Pic of the First small ruin in progress. http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090430.jpg Bin of Finished wall components http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090431.jpg Bin of Door segements, and Busted window walls. http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090432.jpg Sruin 1 Right exterior Overview (rubble-ing in progess) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090436.jpg Sruin 1 Right rear side overview http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090440.jpg Sruin 1 Flashy Pics http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090442.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090444.jpg Sruin 1 Far view Left rear(ish) YOu can see a potential layout for the beginnings of the "sandbag fort) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090445.jpg Sruin 1 Overview (with 2nd floor) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090453.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090449.jpg Sruin 1 Closeup (with Scale mini. Internet cookies to anyone who IDs the model :P ) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090458.jpg Sruin 1 (size of window) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090463.jpg Sruin 1 (size of window/floor height) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090466.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr tough guy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Looks great so far mate, what kind of material are you using to cast these? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Sruin2 assembly in progress http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090468.jpg Floor Height jig (I do so love Legos...) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090471.jpg Sruin 2 Overview (2nd floor added) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090473.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090476.jpg Sruin 3 in progress http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090484.jpg Sruin 3 Overview http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090486.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090488.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090490.jpg The three Small ruins (and un used components) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090495.jpg Mruin 1 In progress http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090497.jpg Mruin 1 Overview (adding 2nd Floor) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090501.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090503.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090506.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090511.jpg Mruin 2 (adding second story) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090513.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090515.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090517.jpg Mruin 2 (adding 2nd Floor) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090520.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090522.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090524.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090526.jpg Mruin 3 (in progress adding second story) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090530.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090532.jpg Mruin 1 in storage crate (for now) overhead http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090534.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Looks great so far mate, what kind of material are you using to cast these? I am using a product called "excalibur" it is a form of dental stone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Melice Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 That is immensely insane!!!!!! Those look so good mate. Are you making a whole city? or is it just a couple of terrain pieces for your own gaming table???+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Piccs for the evening. Mruin 3 (adding 2nd floor) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090539.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090542.jpg Mruin 4 (in progress) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090546.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090548.jpg Mruins 1+2 in a bin awaiting the next stage of work http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090552.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090555.jpg Three Barricades (not glued down to bases, or detailed) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090556.jpg That is immensely insane!!!!!! Those look so good mate. Are you making a whole city? or is it just a couple of terrain pieces for your own gaming table???+ I am making an entire tables worth for use at Da Boyz GT 2011 in Rochester NY. After Da Boyz these pieces will be moving to my local club for use there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Melice Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Rochester??? are you kidding me?? I used to live in the general area a couple of years ago, back when Walden Galleria GW Store was still there. that table is going to look magnificent. Cant wait to see some paint on those buildings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Rochester??? are you kidding me??I used to live in the general area a couple of years ago, back when Walden Galleria GW Store was still there. that table is going to look magnificent. Cant wait to see some paint on those buildings. Nope Dead serious. I'm from Boston, but the Da Boyz GT Is alot of fun so I'm making the drive on out along with some friends to have a fun weekend and roll some dice to kill some mans... (probably mine, but hey its the fun that counts right?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Melice Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I want to know more about the event Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arc Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Here ya go http://www.daboyzgt.com Hopefully see you there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
itasiah Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 and how much does the dentist paste cost? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 These look fantastic! :confused: And I'm very, very jealous that you've the time & space to create and cast your own building/terrain components Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 and how much does the dentist paste cost? The Dental stone costs apx 40$ for 50lbs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 The Dental stone costs apx 40$ for 50lbs That's just over 22 kg for us Europeans :D Insane stuff you've got there, mate :D Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 That's just over 22 kg for us Europeans :D "us europeans" use lbs as well. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 "us europeans" use lbs as well. :D Not the "continental" lads :D And I'm partly one, so I had no idea what 50lbs was :D Ludovic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood4thebloodgod Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 How to you make the molds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2861940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
teku Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 wow! looks awesome! very nice mate! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Nice work. How well do the second floor sections hold up? Are you using any sort of underfloor supports once the Lego is removed? Are all the parts attached with PVA? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Insane stuff you've got there, mate :D Ludovic Thanks. How to you make the molds? From a Smooth On product called "mold star 15" if you mean the masters that I make the molds of, I cut and glued Expanded polystyrene foam board, and plasticard together with cyano acrylic glue (superglue, specifically Zap a Gap.) Glued the masters to a MDF, or Foamcore backing with a Low temp hot glue gun, sealed them with casting clay, built a mold box with Legos, mixed the RTV sillicone poured and waited. wow! looks awesome! very nice mate! Thanks Nice work. How well do the second floor sections hold up? Are you using any sort of underfloor supports once the Lego is removed? Are all the parts attached with PVA? Thanks, The second floor sections hold up quite well, Once the elmers dries they will hold a metal dread, or demon prince with no problem. I'll be adding some Girder details when I've got all the ruins assembled. everything is attached with Elmers PVA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Tiberus Satio Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 1. I hate you for all the creative awesomeness I am forced to watch you create and not play on. 2. Joking aside, very awesome terrain. Can't wait to see painted W.I.P's from you. Keep it up, you should think about doing things BIGGER and BETTER! ...well for us Texans anyway. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 1. I hate you for all the creative awesomeness I am forced to watch you create and not play on. 2. Joking aside, very awesome terrain. Can't wait to see painted W.I.P's from you. Keep it up, you should think about doing things BIGGER and BETTER! ...well for us Texans anyway. :devil: Well come to to Da Boyz and you could play on it... :lol: and the Biggest is yet to come. (three floors really big ruin...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher in the Dark Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Awesome looking terrain man. Looks like you have a fairly efficient process for doing it and have a good system in place. Congrats! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galorn Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Awesome looking terrain man. Looks like you have a fairly efficient process for doing it and have a good system in place. Congrats! Thanks. On to the Progress today so far. (have to stop and let things dry. :D) This is the Game plan for the Layout at Da Boyz http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090596.jpg Materials for the tabletop... http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090590.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090587.jpg Mruin 4 (adding exterior details http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090563.jpg Mruin 4 (adding 2nd Floor) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090576.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090573.jpg Mruin 5 (empty MDF base) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090572.jpg Mruin 5 (adding 2nd story) http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090577.jpg http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h295/SamuelButler/Terrain%20projects/Trenchable%20Terrain/Building%20for%20Da%20Boyz%202011/P1090579.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante1783 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Where do u buy the blue silicon for the molds? I was looking for it with no results... Thx Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237292-terrain-and-a-table-for-da-boyz-gt-2011/#findComment-2862954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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