brother heckengar Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 First I would like to say, can we get some of are own stuff back. We had feel no pain, now Bllod Angels and Death Guard has it. And what about the collar of Khorne, with the Grey Knights and lash out there can we have something to help us out? And if we have bikes, can we get some special weapons please. What about our beloved AXE OF KHORNE, the only weapon nameed after our GOD and we can`t have them come on now!!!. One more thing can we get a World Eater Lord, not just with the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 First I would like to say, can we get some of are own stuff back.We had feel no pain, now Bllod Angels and Death Guard has it. I assume you mean "our" rather than "are"? :confused: I see a lot of people using that, I assume it's a pronunciation thing? Anyway, to be fair, Blood Angels had FNP well before Chaos did (they had it in their original 3rd edition supplemental codex), and it's not like Berzerkers could ever take it. I have to say that I don't agree with its inclusion for Khorne, as much as I miss having it on my Daemon Prince. It does make sense from a fluff perspective that a Berzerker would feel less pain than your average Space Marine (hell, back in 2nd edition they had a 2+ armour save, as I recall), but from a gameplay perspective the various Cults need to remain different enough to each other. Khorne is all about raw power; leave the toughness upgrades to the Nurgloids. And what about the collar of Khorne, with the Grey Knights and lash out there can we have something to help us out? And if we have bikes, can we get some special weapons please. What about our beloved AXE OF KHORNE, the only weapon nameed after our GOD and we can`t have them come on now!!!. One more thing can we get a World Eater Lord, not just with the mark. Agreed with the Collar of Khorne. Heck, I take Khârn all the time and always forget about his Blessings of the Blood God rule... I honestly think that Skull Champions need more weapon options. Seriously, I have the awesome choice of a power weapon, fist or plasma pistol. Snore. There are two simple things I want from a 6th edition codex: I want to feel like I'm actually fielding a warband of World Eaters. At the moment, the only true "World Eaters" in the codex are Berzerkers and Khârn; everything else just feels horribly blanched. I'd be happy if we just got Furious Charge for everything, tell the truth. We need more tactical options. I know that Khorne armies are supposed to be as subtle as an asteroid on a stick being used as a sledgehammer, but we need things that can deal with the stuff that newer codices can put out. Give us an answer for Thunderwolves! If we just get those things, I will be a happy Berzerker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLBERZERKER Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I personally believe that the W.E codex should mirror the 3.5 codex. I also believe that if the only special weapon option for berserkers are P.P, then they should only be 5 points not 15. I would love to see Berserkers get the Infernus Pistol option but I doubt that will happen. To the guy above, Berserkers could take FNP for 5 points a model in the last codex. I would like to see that come back also. It makes more sence that a Berserker who loves pain, would deal with it alot better than someone who doesn't like pain. They should also bring back the Berserker glaive. Its makes no sence what so ever that a DEMON prince can't take a DEMON weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 To the guy above, Berserkers could take FNP for 5 points a model in the last codex. Only if you were cheating; it was a Gift of Khorne, not a veteran skill. Only models with access to the armoury (ie Lords/DPs/Lieutenants/Champions) could take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLBERZERKER Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Aspiring Champions are Berserkers too. They can take FNP for 5 points a model like I said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother heckengar Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 But Khorne is more then the god of blood, war and murder. He is also the god of martial pride and honour. A devotee of Khorne is as likely to be an honourable champion in combat as a blood- crazy slaughterer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I personally believe that the W.E codex should mirror the 3.5 codex. The 3.5 codex has a lot of neat stuff in it, but I do not like the limitations to the FOC is imposes, and it is a pain to build a list with compared to the 4th edition codex. Chaos Marines need psyker defense, and I think Khorne is the answer to that problem. I would love it if Berserkers got some manner of power weapon option. I hate it when my best assault unit spends all day bouncing chainaxes off of Terminator armor. But then again, I am surrounded by Grey Knights and Space Wolves so it's probably just local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Aspiring Champions are Berserkers too. They can take FNP for 5 points a model like I said... I know we're arguing semantics, but an Aspiring Champion was a specific type of Berzerker. Saying that Berzerkers could take FNP implies that all of them could; I was simply trying to clarify that only specific models could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLBERZERKER Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Ok I think we have it now:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furniture Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I don't think Berserkers need FNP. Defensive buffs are more the realm of Nurgle than Khorne. More than any of that, what Berserkers need are their Khornate Chainaxes back. Those Termiantors that were giving you a problem? They cant' get anything better than a 4+ armor save now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarshark Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I didnt like the Chain Axe rule... It felt like a lazy fix to solve the berserker vs heavy armour problem. I am sure there is a more elegant solution than a return to a rule that (was unfairly powerful) and had little common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Besides, the bonus for chainaxes has since been replaced with WS5. I wouldn't mind the return of rules for the chainaxe (though just not with the same rules) if Berzerkers lost their WS5. Re-roll failed to-wound rolls, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarshark Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Besides, the bonus for chainaxes has since been replaced with WS5. I wouldn't mind the return of rules for the chainaxe (though just not with the same rules) if Berzerkers lost their WS5. Re-roll failed to-wound rolls, for example. Like the old hatred rule. I quite like 're-roll successful armour saves' (but that may be a bit broken). A variaty of characterful weapon options would be nice. Something like - Bolt pistol and CCW-Standard. Bolter and CCW-Standard, but gives a shooting option, I miss my bolter zerkers. Chainaxe and boltpistol - 3pts gives re-roll. 2 Handed axe - 3pts +2 strength but sacrifices extra attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'd really like to see some sort of unit we can use to counter assault termies. Kinda sad when a unit of TH/SS termies can wade through squad after squad of zerkers. After all I mean we're supposed to be the close combat army so I'd like to see something in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'd really like to see some sort of unit we can use to counter assault termies. Kinda sad when a unit of TH/SS termies can wade through squad after squad of zerkers. After all I mean we're supposed to be the close combat army so I'd like to see something in that department. That's a big issue I have, too. Berzerkers are great in combat, it's true, but the Khorne elites choices simply don't match up in combat against those of many other armies. I don't think it'd be right to make Berzerkers themselves great at killing elites, but we definitely need something that will scare even TH/SS Termies. My first thought has to do with Juggernauts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarshark Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Berserker terminators was what sprang to mind for me...but Juggers could make a nasty unit in a similar vein to the Thunderwolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenwonder Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I have to agree with Kevlarshark, Bezerker Terminators are at the top of my list followed by a Jugger-mounted unit. Also, give all cult legion armies the approporiate Daemons at a suitable points cost - let the World Eaters fight side by side with Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Flesh Hounds and most certainly a Bloodthirster. I can't help but feel that Khorne Bezerkers (and Bezerker Terminators accordinly) specifically should have the Rage rule. I prefer having control of them certainly, but Bezerkers are the extreme end of the Khorne spectrum and should obviously embody more of Khornes aspect of fury and anger. I also feel that there is a place for Havocs and Bolters in a World Eaters force (such as a World Eaters warband now exists). To me Khorne, whilst embodying hatred and anger and of course personal combat (Bezerkers) - Khorne emobodies martial ability and honour/pride, including the efficient and destructive use of heavy weapons (in havocs) and of course the will to fight in whatever style of war a warrior is called to fight - including the use of ranged weapons and the bolter. In terms of wargear, bring back Collars of Khorne, Axes of Khorne et al. Also, Mark of Khorne for World Eater units such as Bikers and Possessed would be great too. Other than that, I would like to see more background on the World Eaters beyond Kharne and his Kill Maim Burn chantsm, including details on the first Armageddon War from Angron/World Eaters perspectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlarshark Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I have to agree with Kevlarshark, Bezerker Terminators are at the top of my list followed by a Jugger-mounted unit. Also, give all cult legion armies the approporiate Daemons at a suitable points cost - let the World Eaters fight side by side with Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Flesh Hounds and most certainly a Bloodthirster. I can't help but feel that Khorne Bezerkers (and Bezerker Terminators accordinly) specifically should have the Rage rule. I prefer having control of them certainly, but Bezerkers are the extreme end of the Khorne spectrum and should obviously embody more of Khornes aspect of fury and anger. I also feel that there is a place for Havocs and Bolters in a World Eaters force (such as a World Eaters warband now exists). To me Khorne, whilst embodying hatred and anger and of course personal combat (Bezerkers) - Khorne emobodies martial ability and honour/pride, including the efficient and destructive use of heavy weapons (in havocs) and of course the will to fight in whatever style of war a warrior is called to fight - including the use of ranged weapons and the bolter. In terms of wargear, bring back Collars of Khorne, Axes of Khorne et al. Also, Mark of Khorne for World Eater units such as Bikers and Possessed would be great too. Other than that, I would like to see more background on the World Eaters beyond Kharne and his Kill Maim Burn chantsm, including details on the first Armageddon War from Angron/World Eaters perspectives. I generally agree, but rage I feel is too awkward to inflict on an entire army, fun for a few units, but not every model. Perhaps something similar to the 'headstrong' that blood claws have so berserkers have to charge but can act somewhat normally... or at least let them take a Ld test to overcome it effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Honestly I don't think berserkers need 'feel no pain' as well. Sure they used to have it, but now it seems like everyone under the sun is getting 'feel no pain' or some form of it. Unless this is a new directing GW is taking the game - basically giving units 2 dice roll saves. If that's the case then ok. But if not then I don't think much needs to be fixed with berserkers: they already have enough attacks and strike at I5 on the charge, which is about right for them. Perhaps a constant S5 to represent their brute strength and rage enhanced physique instead of just on the charge. That would make them S6 on the charge which would mean instant death for T3 units - about right IMO. They most definitely could do with having their chainaxes get the 'rending' special rule though. All those attacks get nullified pretty quickly these days by MEQ armies (especially those with 'feel no pain'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 No I don't think bezerkers in particular need it and I agree it seems almost every army now has at least 1 unit with FnP. At the same time, they're not really where they should be either. I think the basic bezerker is decent as is, perhaps with a little price increase, small buff and rage would make them perfect I think. What they really need though is more options just like every other cult army. My comment about TH/SS termies is just one thing that bugs me in particular. Khorne, essentially the god of close combat, whose units can throw themselves at one squad of these guys and just get beat down again and again if the SM player's lucky. I just loved in some of the older dexes and even before all these new codex books came out, when you saw a khorne army you always tried your best to stay away. That's what people do when they see my nearly mono-khorne daemons and I love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 No I don't think bezerkers in particular need it and I agree it seems almost every army now has at least 1 unit with FnP. At the same time, they're not really where they should be either. I think the basic bezerker is decent as is, perhaps with a little price increase, small buff and rage would make them perfect I think. What they really need though is more options just like every other cult army. My comment about TH/SS termies is just one thing that bugs me in particular. Khorne, essentially the god of close combat, whose units can throw themselves at one squad of these guys and just get beat down again and again if the SM player's lucky. I just loved in some of the older dexes and even before all these new codex books came out, when you saw a khorne army you always tried your best to stay away. That's what people do when they see my nearly mono-khorne daemons and I love it Agreed. World Eaters and/or Khorne based armies need to be feared again and make enemies completely want to avoid combat with them. Seriously if there is one enemy you don't want to close in with it's them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Honestly, I'd hate Rage to be a permanent thing. On one or two units, fine, but on an entire army? Talk about boring. Especially since the rule is 100% penalty and has absolutely no upsides. I do agree otherwise, though. Khorne needs to be feared in close combat, to the extent that most opponents should be actively avoiding combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Either berzerkers should get a slight stat increase (+1 to strength or perhaps rending) OR they get a massive stat and weapon increase but they get the penalty of rage. That would make them super deadly in close combat but require them to be caged and controlled until being released from drop pods, assault craft etc. Either way would be cool and I do think World Eaters need to be made to be more nutso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Perhaps not rage like in 3.5 but a LD test? Honestly if given the choice between the two I'd prefer them to be super deadly and insane rather than controllable and good in CC. I'd really love to be able to take zerks (or just chosen/lords) on juggernaughts-show those space wolves what's up!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Oooh now that would be sweet! Our own version of thunderwolf cavalry! Multi-wound maniacs frothing at the mouth grills wielding high strength rending chainaxes on high toughness daemonic mounts! That would make people think twice about going into close combat with Khornate warriors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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