World Eaters in 6th

[Slayer le Boucher]

All that talk about Zerkers...

 

Gotta say that the actual zerkers arn't bad,its just that they have a really poor Wargear options!

 

2 PW and a P pistol for the Champ,some bombs and a icon and 2 PP for the zerkers...

 

The profil and rules of actual Zerkers are good,its their wargear that heavely restricts them against elite units.

 

The option that i would like to see in the future dex are of course the Collar and Axe,but also the possibilty that a second or third Zerker can wield a PW,or that they got their Chainaxes again.

 

A good thing with chainaxes would be rending or +1 S,or even a rethrow to failed to Wound dices.

 

Now i'm totally for a Jugger riding squad of Zerkers!,but they should give Juggers at least Fleet or a head long charge like a +1D6 inches to the charge.

 

Also bikes should get some love,like in the old days where they got a +1 attacks because of the spikes and blades,but this time having the ability to rethrow failed to hit OR to wound dices when assaulting.

[Brother Ambroz]

The profile and rules for zerkers are alright. Something should definitely be done about chainaxes, rending or rethrowing failed wounds is cool but +1 strength just doesn't really make sense to me.

 

Juggers do need some kind of better movement, just look at thunderwolves they're the exact same except TW are much faster.

[Cheex]

The profile and rules for zerkers are alright. Something should definitely be done about chainaxes, rending or rethrowing failed wounds is cool but +1 strength just doesn't really make sense to me.

 

Juggers do need some kind of better movement, just look at thunderwolves they're the exact same except TW are much faster.

If we get rules for chainaxes, I'd be willing to wager we lose the WS5 to make up for it. The WS5 is only there because we lost our chainaxe rules in the first place, after all.

 

Agreed about Juggers. I don't think they should be cavalry, but Fleet seems very plausible. I could see +1S, +1T, +1W and Fleet being a possibility, with a handful of weapon options.

 

But this is just assuming GW even decides to make Juggernaut-mounted Berzerkers. It would make sense if they did, following the popularity of Thunderwolves. (Why the heck didn't GW come out with a TWC model, aside from Canis? Major ball drop on that one.) Plus, they already have the Juggernaut models; with the wonders of CAD/CAM, it wouldn't be hard for them to just re-jig the sprues to have Berzerkers on them instead of Bloodletters.

 

Also, because I haven't seen it posted here, there have been some new rumours about the upcoming CSM codex.

 

As a brief disclaimer, I have seen nothing firsthand, time will prove or disprove the veracity of this clutch.

 

That aside, I have rumour. I've talked tidbits about the next Chaos Codex with those in my crowd who've had some things (finecast as an example) right, in advance. Two points

 

1 - The Legions codex rumour is incorrect, this is a Chaos Space Marines codex. Thats not to say there won't be a greater focus on the legions, nor a greater variety of playstyles, just 'don't expect a massive amount of unique units (and presumably) gear for each and every legion'. Doesn't mean there won't be some mind. Oh, and NEW PLASTIC DREADNOUGHT miniature!

 

2 - It is sadly ''not as near as you think, though being worked on, by more than one developer (not mention of whom), and lot is being tightened up/straightned out in terms of the background, with changes to some key characters (Fabus mentioned here) - though it will be again be set upon the cusp of Abbadon's latest black crusade.

[Brother Ambroz]

Greater focus on legion is probably where the legion rumour came from. It still all sounds great, I hope they release some new rules that make that new fancy plastic dread playable and not a liablility. :tu:

[Slayer le Boucher]

Yeah i really do hope that the Insane Rules of the Dread will come b

 

Yeah i really do hope that the Insane Rules of the Dread will come back to what they where in 3.5 Dex.

 

Because i do love Walkers,but since the Insane rule is so bad,i'm a really sad panda with my 5 Dreads collecting dust...

[Cheex]

Yeah i really do hope that the Insane Rules of the Dread will come b

 

Yeah i really do hope that the Insane Rules of the Dread will come back to what they where in 3.5 Dex.

 

Because i do love Walkers,but since the Insane rule is so bad,i'm a really sad panda with my 5 Dreads collecting dust...

Personally, I'd take a leaf out of the Blood Angels book and do it like this.

 

During deployment, roll a D6 for each Chaos Dreadnought in your army. On a roll of 1 or 2, choose one of the following sets of rules to affect the Dreadnought for the whole game:

- Rage, Fleet, Furious Charge; must move towards the nearest enemy whenever it makes any kind of movement.

- Slow and Purposeful; may fire its weapons twice each turn; if it can't target an enemy unit, it must target a friendly unit in LOS instead.

 

It keeps a measure of unpredictability, while allowing the player to plan the use of his Dreadnought(s) and avoid the frustration of it doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, and with the wrong set of weapons.

[Trevak Dal]

Its makes no sence what so ever that a DEMON prince can't take a DEMON weapon.

 

 

I don't know, maybe they ascended past using "mere trinkets" because they are infused with the raw power of their god?

 

I think it would be interesting if Khorne marked units had a rule similar to the Reinforced Aegis that the grey knight vehicles have, or maybe so that they have a 3+ invulnerable save against psychic powers/attacks, even the "Whoops your model goes back into your case with no saves" spells like Jaws.

 

I also agree with Furious Charge across the board, but also add in counter attack, and maybe a version of rending where they rend on a 4 or 6 (not on 5-sort of like a 'backhand' hack of the axe wouldn't be as powerful as the two main strikes). Agree with lower price on plasma pistols.

 

Keep the WS5, hell no with Rage and FNP. Feel no pain is the province of zombies and vampires.

 

Maybe have a unit that is not psychic per-se, but some sort of...Khornate blood priest that is chaplain-esque. I've always seen Khorne as a god of Martial pride and honor, if Beserkers/World Eaters got Rage I'd Ebay faster than you could say "Squats". I tolerate my less-than controllable drednoughts Fredreich and Barkley but they got a missile launcher and a heavy flamer so they aren't that big of a threat to my boys. I will not abide a Deathcompany army.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Its makes no sence what so ever that a DEMON prince can't take a DEMON weapon.

 

 

I don't know, maybe they ascended past using "mere trinkets" because they are infused with the raw power of their god?

 

Aah...no, Chaos is all about Trinkets,rewards and Unholy equipment, *looks back at his RoC manuals with more then 1000 rewards/mutations/Weapons*.

 

If there is someone who really have the right to bear a D weapon other then a Lord,is a Prince,the fact that the Prince can't have one is just one more example that this codex wasn't really though throught at the time and that Gav was lazy as an ass at the time.

 

I think it would be interesting if Khorne marked units had a rule similar to the Reinforced Aegis that the grey knight vehicles have, or maybe so that they have a 3+ invulnerable save against psychic powers/attacks, even the "Whoops your model goes back into your case with no saves" spells like Jaws.

 

Well like i said,the simple return of the Gods Wargear with the Collar,and i don' want an invul save,i want to completly nullify a Psy power,like the old days.

Because there is still powers who doesn't allow you to make a save,like those who only ask of you to make a carac test and no real wounds are made.

I also agree with Furious Charge across the board, but also add in counter attack, and maybe a version of rending where they rend on a 4 or 6 (not on 5-sort of like a 'backhand' hack of the axe wouldn't be as powerful as the two main strikes). Agree with lower price on plasma pistols.

 

Elites choices Marked units could have the Counter attack with the FC,but for the rest it would be a bit too much,and rending can be achieved through Chain-Axes.

 

Keep the WS5, hell no with Rage and FNP. Feel no pain is the province of zombies and vampires.

 

Rage doesn't really bother me,got the habit from the Previous dex,but yeah feel no pain should be accesible to HQ only,in a form or another.

 

Thinking about it,World Eaters have the reputation to practice Neurochurgery on themselfs,so their Apothiecary's must be relativly good.

 

A kind of Sanguinary Priest Character who takes no slot or an elite slot could do the trick,where he gives FnP to the squad he joins .

 

Maybe have a unit that is not psychic per-se, but some sort of...Khornate blood priest that is chaplain-esque. I've always seen Khorne as a god of Martial pride and honor, if Beserkers/World Eaters got Rage I'd Ebay faster than you could say "Squats". I tolerate my less-than controllable drednoughts Fredreich and Barkley but they got a missile launcher and a heavy flamer so they aren't that big of a threat to my boys. I will not abide a Deathcompany army.

 

Agreed WE needs a special utility Character like a Chaplain,after all in the beggining waaaay before hte 3th Ed fluff,all of the Traitor Legions din't execute their Chaplains with exception of the Word Bearers,some where killed,while some of them submitted to the Chaos Gods.

 

In RT and RoC manuals WE Chaplains where renowed to be fierce and terrible opponents to face!(and also they Still had Liby's!,just that they lost their powers and only keept the Tally of the Skulls taken and served as Anti-Psy dudes!)

 

A cool thing to see is some kind of mechanic akin to the Eye of the Gods from the WoC battle book or the Power through Pain from the DE.

 

Or even a "Martial Trait" option for Khorne Marked HQ's,after all if you want other Legions can have Psy powers and stuff,so why don't we also get our special ability's?

 

Something like a Martial special move that you can use during the assault phase like the GK Brotherhood Champ or even choose some kind of buff or something for the appropriate point cost,a bit like SW Sagas.

[Brother Ambroz]

I agree with all of that Slayer except that little bit about sagas.....I think they should be completely removed, they just add to the OPness of that codex right now.

[Ethrion]

Well using C:GK deathcult assassins/crusader combination as a benchmark for the most badass high attack output at higher than most HQ choice initiative....Khorne berzerkers/World Eaters need to be ridiculously buffed up in some way now. Their charge needs to be devastating...utterly pwn face obliterating IMO.

 

All those stimms, surgeries, centuries of hate and rage and final release on the field of battle should be represented by stuff like an 'always strikes first' special rule, a 'causes terror' rule on the unit it's charging (so that it might even break and run before being hit). Also much higher strength on the charge so that their hits can instant kill 'human' T3 targets and even when the charge is over their brute strength needs to be base 5. And to represent their utter lack of caring about their own injuries they need FnP back.

 

It should be so that no unit wants to get caught by them in close combat and that the only way of dropping them is by shooting them.

 

I'll stress it again, deathcult/crusaders are the benchmark...they are a unit to be feared and utterly avoided in combat and so should World Eaters.

[Son of Rawl]

How about when a World Eater unit charges they gain the Rending rule along with what they have now, and that when the unit size is a multiple of eight they will treat their CC weapons as power weapons.

 

That's something I would like to see at any rate.

[Maleficum]

I didnt like the Chain Axe rule... It felt like a lazy fix to solve the berserker vs heavy armour problem.

I am sure there is a more elegant solution than a return to a rule that (was unfairly powerful) and had little common sense.

 

The fix was originally Andy Chambers' fix for orks against Space Marines without ruining the 5+Sv armies out there (there really wasn't any 4+saves armies then, imagine!)

 

 

I don't think we need that rule, as it really made Terminators even worse! (Back then terminators were really expensive and rarely taken, allthough much of this was because the gunline was a valid army concept).

 

 

I do think we should have re-rolls to hit, or maybe to wound. Much as the Blood Angels so easily can get (unless Farseers with Runes of Witnessing is around).

[Killer_Kane_24]

The rending rule would be cool.

If Zerks had that it would be great!

 

:devil: if matt ward made the codex i bet he would add rules like that...but kill the fluff :L

[Captain Tezdal]

If this did happen

 

Khârn would chop lucious's ugly head off

the armour would try to make him lucious

Khârn will be like b**** please

and just walk away, nuff said

:lol:

 

lol Think you got the wrong thread.

[Killer_Kane_24]

i know -.- i just noticed today, oh well ive changed it :L sorry

[binary]

I'd like to see something that made us feared in cc again. Something like rending in cc, furious charge and countercharge, and unit sizes of 8 giving some sort of bonus.

 

I think we need to have some more tactically flexible options too, havocs, bolters, and some more wargear options.

 

Oh and drop pods would be nice....means I'll be able to move over from the SW codex

 

-binary

[empchildrenbob]

They need to bring back khornate chainaxes

 

Reducing your armour save to a 4+? Yes please

[Canardwc]

Oh and drop pods would be nice....means I'll be able to move over from the SW codex

 

-binary

 

With your friends and in some tournaments you can use FW rules, like Dreadclaws. IMHO, It won't fix berserkers.

[Ethrion]

Oh and drop pods would be nice....means I'll be able to move over from the SW codex

 

-binary

 

With your friends and in some tournaments you can use FW rules, like Dreadclaws. IMHO, It won't fix berserkers.

 

Yeah the Imperial Armour Second Edition book as 40K stamped a lot of new units and vehicles which means that as long as you bring the relevant rules you can use them. Chaos get drop pods, contemptors etc...

[Rain]

There will be juggernaut mounted berzerkers and they will probably be called something silly like "Brass Knights". Just watch. There will also be aircraft and another daemon engine that will either be a modified defiler or will have two different versions of itself alongside the defiler. As for berzerkers themselves I actually think they are about where they should be, they are pretty reasonably priced and still very good as long as they get the charge (and what self respecting berzerker gets caught flat footed?).

 

That said, what is certainly NOT fine is the rest of the options in a World Eaters list. Lords are crap, Daemon Princes are probably the worst cost/effectiveness ratio of any god, and terminators are a joke. It is these units that need to be buffed. In 3.5 a Khorne prince with berzerker glaive and the right upgrades was greatly feared, and for good reason! Especially given the relative power level of other armies he was an utter monster, an expensive monster but a monster nonetheless. Similarly, you could construct a Khornate terminator squad with furious charge, throwing S5 I5 power weapon attacks, or even upgrade a few to champions with demonic strength for S6 charging wrecking balls that could melt monstrous creatures without much trouble.

 

Was it always optimal? Perhaps not, but it was cool and it was damn scary to face, now Khorne is kind of just "eh", I am far more nervous about facing Space Wolves or Grey Knights in CC than I am Khorne, and that's just wrong, CC is traditionally all that Khorne does, all that Khorne cares to do, and the army should be fittingly amazing at it.

[Canardwc]

CC is traditionally all that Khorne does, all that Khorne cares to do

 

True in WHB, but not exactly in 40k. Khorne likes every weapon of destruction, the biggest is the best. That's why the greatest demon engines with lots of gun are from khorne.

[Hellrender]

i just think they need to be a bit less onsided. All we have now are the Berzerkers. Is that really the whole World Eater Legion??

 

There is however, a problem with Juggernaut 'cavalry' . They are not cavalry. In 2 codexes. If they would become cavalry in our new codex, then it would be unfair for the Daemon Dex (altough a FAQ can fix this).

But it would bring it on to par with the Thunderpuppies.

 

Overall, i just miss some flavour to a World Eater army. Real Lords (aside from Khârn, cuz Khârn is not a commander), and real aspects of an army, not just a berzerking warband.

[The thousand son]

General rending seems more Slaanesh to me.

 

The solution is so simple to me, some of you have said it already. Open up the options.

Let Berzerkers get hand flamers and pistol meltas, along with their choice of plasma pistols (keeping them short ranged, yet still provide some options). For close combat, add the possibility of rending. Like mark of the wulfen for SW, but in this case it´s "blessing of the blood god" - and you can take 2 per unit. This leaves berzerkers with WS5 (which i think is their best feature. Even more so than plenty of attacks, Khorne champions should fight well), option for a champion with power weapon or power fist, a choice of up to 2 blessed zerkers (whom will be great at rending, considering volume of attacks and high WS) and a choice of pistols.

 

Also - I agree about giving them a "special" character. "Champion of Khorne", a mix between a libby and a chappy - allowing re-rolls to hit on charge and holding a "force weapon" (of a more angry and daemonic nature). How about that?

 

I do not however want to see riders on juggers. SW and Daemons and then Khorne? I dont like it when armies get more and more like each other. Instead they could explore khorne bikers.... full of spiky they get the old "spiky bits" (re-roll one failed to-wound), which coupled with their extra attack for the mark and their awsome WS would make them a heavy chocktroop. This would also be a great place to let khorne have some special weapons.

 

Terminators. Keeping in theme on hth, drop their option for a heavy weapon. Let them have a special weapon instead. Giving them plasma guns instead of autocannons ie.

 

Havocs? Khorne? - YES!! But they can, in contrast to others, grab 4 additional close combat weapons. While Nurgle Havocs bring 4 plasmaguns and a combi-plas, Iron Warriors bring 4 lascannons.... World eaters bring up to 5 power-weapons/fists. Talk about bringing the havoc!

[Slayer le Boucher]

General rending seems more Slaanesh to me.

 

Only the Deamonettes are full Rending.

Emperor's Children was always about Sonic weaponry.

The solution is so simple to me, some of you have said it already. Open up the options.

Let Berzerkers get hand flamers and pistol meltas, along with their choice of plasma pistols (keeping them short ranged, yet still provide some options). For close combat, add the possibility of rending. Like mark of the wulfen for SW, but in this case it´s "blessing of the blood god" - and you can take 2 per unit. This leaves berzerkers with WS5 (which i think is their best feature. Even more so than plenty of attacks, Khorne champions should fight well), option for a champion with power weapon or power fist, a choice of up to 2 blessed zerkers (whom will be great at rending, considering volume of attacks and high WS) and a choice of pistols.

 

True, they need more pistol options, but i could care less for the rending.

What they need is a way to rethrow To Hit or To Wound dices, maybe thats when you can use Khornate Chainaxes, for a 5pts per model, they all count as using Mastercrafted weapons.

And they should definatly be able to wield a Banner like in old times and use the Collars, after all arn't we renowed to be the most effective anti-Psy army?

Also - I agree about giving them a "special" character. "Champion of Khorne", a mix between a libby and a chappy - allowing re-rolls to hit on charge and holding a "force weapon" (of a more angry and daemonic nature). How about that?

 

Those are called Blood Priests, and yeah they should give you the possibility to rethrow To Hit & To Wound.

Also what lacks pure WE army's are special ability's, other army's can use Psy powers, good for them, i don't need it, but we could use special attacks like those from the GK's Brotherhood Champ, it could be a Martial Trait you could buy and use it.

 

Giving WE HQ's some punch more then an extra attack or something.

 

I do not however want to see riders on juggers. SW and Daemons and then Khorne? I dont like it when armies get more and more like each other. Instead they could explore khorne bikers.... full of spiky they get the old "spiky bits" (re-roll one failed to-wound), which coupled with their extra attack for the mark and their awsome WS would make them a heavy chocktroop. This would also be a great place to let khorne have some special weapons.

 

Deamons was always a part of Chaos army's, GW did a huge mistake when they did split it in two.

So i do hope to see Skull/Brass Knights and Deamon Engines, after all Khorne woreshipers are knowed to use a lot of Machines and Walkers.

While i agree Bikes definatly need some love, but not just for WE.

 

Terminators. Keeping in theme on hth, drop their option for a heavy weapon. Let them have a special weapon instead. Giving them plasma guns instead of autocannons ie.

 

Not a good idea, Termies are amongst the very few Long range fire power you can get in a WE army, the others beeing Oblits, Dreads and Defilers, wich isn't that much.

And no matter what you need some long range firepower.

 

WE termies should be given the Option to be Cult termies, giving them WS5 and FC.

 

Havocs? Khorne? - YES!! But they can, in contrast to others, grab 4 additional close combat weapons. While Nurgle Havocs bring 4 plasmaguns and a combi-plas, Iron Warriors bring 4 lascannons.... World eaters bring up to 5 power-weapons/fists. Talk about bringing the havoc!

 

Havocs work good as they are now, given them power weapons option is nice, but it would be a huge and unnecesary points pit.

 

They could however use some Veteran Skills, like Tank Hunter & Counter attack.

[frostclaw222]

I think (and I'm an outsider here) what should happen is that they look to the HH stuff and update it.

 

Basic WE trooper is thousands of years old, has the combat-drug cybernetic implants grafted into his brain, and is generally billy bad apples in close combat. A melee expert, but a generally all-around trained astartes. Maybe the leader of the squad is about to fully capitulate to the whole Khorne berserker thing, but I think portraying all WE as having gone Khârn dilutes their character a wee bit. So, maybe the combat implants do something minor.

 

Berserkers have gone fully over, and should have the stuff to show for it, both positive and negative. Make these guys full-on elites. Like Wolf Guard or Death Company, but not nearly so expensive, and have something in place to mitigate the cost reduction without hitting them with the nerf bat.

 

I agree with previous, more learned posters: Lately, all I hear from folks when WE are the topic are guys who've literally gone Khârn. Khârn's beyond the pale, though. He's the zenith of Khorne worship. Nobody's in his class. That's why he's so bloody infamous. So, he should be comparable to the best of the best loyalist guys in CC, without a doubt. I mean, bolter fire should just plink off this guy like rain, and when he wades into combat, Gorechild should make people cower and run. But WE aren't just berserkers, or at least weren't. I think you should be able to portray a warband that's gone completely over, but you should also be able to portray a warband that hasn't fully succumbed to the bloodthirstiness.

 

But that's just my opinion. I mean, they did go over to chaos ten thousand years ago. I just think the versatility everyone wants could be stratified, and in the process, make berserkers everything you guys want and more without breaking the bank.

 

As for cavalry, I dunno. I'm still waiting on figs for mine. :tu: