World Eaters in 6th

[Scribe]

Ah its all in fun really, though your comment about why World Eaters would get better havocs? Why do bloody long fangs get to split fire, its not as if they pay a premium on upgrades or anything at all, and then get Counter Attack and Acute Senses!

[Muskie]

Death Company

 

EDIT: Checked the dex: Fearless, FnP, Relentless! & Furious Chaerge. THAT'S what a Zerker is meant to be!. And still TROOPS choice. :blush:

 

Good one! I don't own every Codex.

 

And yet I rarely see Death Company in the newest Blood Angel army lists, but you left out their negative rules... Some negatives obviously outweigh multiple positives, Nurglings used to have nothing but negative special rules. ;-) This is my fifth or sixth "Everyday I pray for a Chaos Codex" period online. Usually there is some good and some bad and the loudest voices seem to have the most unrealistic expectations and demands.

 

Although it would be nice if every new army was instantly the best and there are certainly some people who think that way. But Chaos has always had loyal followers who diligently collect, paint, and convert their armies. Let some other Codex be the flavour of the month I say. GW designs their games to be relatively easy to play and to sell models. There are unchanging givens, such as they only use D6s. They now always eventually release a model for everything that has rules, which wasn't the case in RT and 2nd Edition times. Their prices seem to get more out of whack with the COGS for miniature and paint production, especially in Canada. They seem to have established a modus operai and online forums aren't going to convince them to change.

 

GW had official forums once, I never frequented them, but the company generates a disproportionate amount of hate and complaints given its size and the real negative effect it has on the Earth. Now it falls to hobby enthusiast forums and blogs to provide a avenue for venting or ranting and it may feel good at the time, but ultimately it rarely has a positive impact on the situation. So instead of pie in the sky dream rules wishing, you have two choices, write your own rules and convince people to use them without the marketing clout and intellectual property of GW or do the best you can with the rules as written. I tend to fall into the latter category, overhauling my army every rule change to try and make it legal and fun and let me use the models I've collected, converted, and painted. Blastmarker Billy is currently illegal as dreads can't have Havoc Missile Launchers, even though I think they could dating back to 2nd Edition, they can not have that vehicle upgrade now. This was an expensive and time consuming model, which I still occasionally field, but basically it collects dust due to rules changes.

 

You just get used to how GW operates after a while, but eventually you buy less product and play less, but GW relies on lots of new people joining the hobby and splurging on new armies when they come out, not older long time players to juice their quarterly results. So maybe this will be the awesomest Chaos army list ever, harkening back to the now mythical Rogue Trader times when the game was actually really hard to play, especially Orks due to their randomness... Or more likely the Codex will follow the pattern established for years now with special characters being more and more of a necessity to unlock rules/options and bigger more elaborate plastic kits adding yet more vehicles to what was originally a footslogger dominated small scale engagement game.

 

When I did my forecasting I figured a new demon engine and a flyer/skimmer were the most likely kits to be added with new fancier CSM core troops being extremely likely too. The Bezerker models are old but not as old as the Dreadnought which is supposedly getting replaced finally with a new plastic kit. You can forecast what will get new models pretty accurately now, with bigger, fancier, plastic kits being likely with the odd, oddball release. Most of what people are wishing for in this thread, won't sell new models, it will make their existing models ie Bezerkers better and while I think they may improve slightly a better thing to hope for may be some sort of demon engine and flyer/skimmer to even the playing field with IG, BA, and GK.

 

See the fact the Storm Eagle and the Decimator were recently released by Forgeworld, the former may become an army centerpiece and a Bezerker delivery system along with some Blight Drones as wingmen err demons. I want to make my army cool and different not run whatever the Internet experts say is the best. I collected, converted, and painted bezerkers because they look cool. If they aren't the best H2H troops in the universe, I'll still field them eventually, but first I need a new job, to pass my exam which I should be studying for, and I need to paint one more bezerker and a rhino until I feel the urge to splurge and paint a Storm Eagle. I try to focus on the positive aspects of the hobby, particularly painting and modeling now. GW seems to have exited the competitive tournament scene in North America and I'm fine with that. I tend to prefer Astronomi-con style fluffy fun tournaments to WAAC, painting, fluff, and fun be damned.

 

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6006/5951638972_1b27a22c2e.jpg

OOP Khorne Bezerker #5 or 7 by Muskie McKay, on Flickr

 

Gotta get away from the computer as I'm not being productive and need to make dinner. ;-)

[Emperors Immortals]

Death Company

 

EDIT: Checked the dex: Fearless, FnP, Relentless! & Furious Chaerge. THAT'S what a Zerker is meant to be!. And still TROOPS choice. ;)

 

Good one! I don't own every Codex.

 

And yet I rarely see Death Company in the newest Blood Angel army lists, but you left out their negative rules... Some negatives obviously outweigh multiple positives, Nurglings used to have nothing but negative special rules. ;-) This is my fifth or sixth "Everyday I pray for a Chaos Codex" period online. Usually there is some good and some bad and the loudest voices seem to have the most unrealistic expectations and demands.

 

 

 

 

 

I run BA and the Death Co are in every list i build - only "negative" is rage USR, sometimes im tempted to run an all-DC army as WE.

 

Frankly id be happy with our collars of khorne and axes of khorne back plus an assault ramp upgrade for WE armies and ill accept the old Animosity drawback and occasional self-inflicted daemon weapon accident to make us all fluffy and choppy again.

[Brother Aiwass]

@Muskie,

 

Very good points. I missed the drawbacks of the DC, but still, even with the drawbacks I'll take those DC as what a zerkers would be. Fluff-wise, a zerker is an assault squad:

http://www.pa-sy.com/hhccg/images/wrathe.jpg

 

You can notice that in the right shoulder pad. Also same records can be found in Collected Visions. I advoke like someone did before, that we can have foot zerkers, jump-pack zerkers and biker zerkers, fluff sake. The case of the Havoc launchers is a shame, thought.

 

I concur that GW don't care too much (or it seems, Khorne knows that I wish otherwise) for veteran players and focus more in the newbloods, which is a shame, because eventually the newbloods became veterans. Also that behaviour is in part guilty to the whole mess backgroud-childish-retcon. The other part is somewhere between Matt and Ward. Just saying.

 

BTW, very cool oldschool NL zerker you have!

 

@Emperors inmortals,

 

I'm thinking to switch to the BA codex too, but with the hopefuly rumoured new codex... I can wait a bit ;)

 

If the rumour is fake, I'm almost sure to use Seth as pre Heresy Khârn, but due the squad gear I surely have to invest in more FW armour to model the army so that can run legally. Khorne axes and collar would be very nice. And assault ramp rhinos, yum!

 

As far as daemon weapons... I'm very upset. The GK have utterly insane deamon weapons that never hurts them! :cuss

[Chaos_Lord888]

I'd whish zerkers add back their chainaxe, with the same rules or if different, something as effective. Maybe make it like a cheaper non-power ligthning claw. But seriously, that weapon was the best thing for me in the previous codex. It totally negated most MeQ and made marines army less threatning. Here's examples of what kind of SR for zerker I'd like to see :

 

Set 1

Furious Charge, Counter-attack, access to khornate axes, plasma pistols, hand flamers. And for champion : PW, PF, CF, LC and Dual LC.

 

Set 2

FNP, Higher Initiative, reroll to wound, higher speed on charge.

 

I'd also like to see those assault zerkers with jump packs almost every rumour source is talking about. But I would like to see them with different option that their on foot brothers, maybe give each of them access to special melee options, like for the DC of the blood angels.

 

As for a Khornate Lord, I think that we can obtain this easily by returning to the old mark system of the 3.5 codex. If a unit or character take the mark of Khorne, it or he gain the SR associated ( CSM become zerkers, Chaos Lord become Khorne Lord, they gain the associate SR and options).

 

Same thing should be done for a Daemon Prince. Personnally, I think a Daemon Prince should come with a 4+ invunerable save, and if he take the mark of Khorne, gain the option of taking a 3+ armour save, and also have access to daemon weapons.

[BogdanTheBlessed]

I am going to dare speak my own mind here. While I do like the Sanctified, being in the Khorne Bandwagon here are my ten cents:

 

1) Give Khorne Berzerkers "Preffered Enemy" or Rerolls to Hit. While we already hit most stuff on a 3+ having weapon skill at 5 the reroll might bring our high volume of attacks to work well without PE and just keep at WS5. Furious Charge, Hand Flamers, Plasma Pistols, yes I think they are good. I'd even vote making the Collar of Khorne upgrade for the Champion give the whole squad protection on not say a 2+ but a 4+.

 

2) Assault Khornate troops/Berzerkers - Blood Angels are the Kings of Loyalist Assaults but we should be the be all-end all, better than them. Assault Berzerkers with WS5 and Furious Charge, a little more expensive i'd go for. Give them the option like Assault Marines to remove Jump Packs and get 15 point Rhinos as well.

 

3) Biker Berzerkers - Just a nice thought we'd have.

 

4) Assault Oriented Dreadnought, not Crazy with Chaos Drop Pod (Dreadclaw) with perhaps furious charge (I5 dreadnought isn't to sneeze at) and/or perhaps Rage as well. Slap a Meltagun/TL-Bolter or Heavy Flamer on it. No ranged weapons for Khornate Dreadnoughts either except those on the Close Combat arms.

 

5) Dare I ask for fast Chaos Rhinos? Not assault Ramps but ...some Rhino variation maybe that moves a bit faster?

[Jiron]

I am actually quite happy with the actual state of things. However, things I would like to have are following:

 

Knights (cavalry or bikes)

Jump Infantry (yes, zrekers with jump packs!!!!)

Collar of Khorne... I mean, every loyalist witch have it's Psychic hood.

Some real anti-tank solution.

[Hadror Sunwielder]

I agree a lot with Muskie.

 

I'll specify what I'd like World Eaters to be though (and what I'm making with the rules we have), to confront with others.

 

Let's start with their rules, and then I'll go on with the background (even if I think it's more important).

 

For now they have: Rage, Counter-attack, Furious Charge, Fearless.

Since historically viking berserkers were substantially fearless and felt no pain, I think Khorne Berserkers should have feel no pain on a 5+ or, if it turns out being overpowered, 6+. I think that the rubric marines and the noise marines should have it too, since the first don't have nerves and the latter feel pleasure instead.

 

About the havocs: We can play them ANYWAY, so... WHO CARES! Field them and mark of khorne them. When some smartass will try to charge them you have counter-attack, making them thus cooler than usual devastators and more effective tactically. Just a little, but still better. It's also coherent with old school fluff, where they were "as eager to crush their enemies from afar as in close combat". The teeth of the world eaters!

 

I thought about jump-pack'd berserkers, but after all I don't like too much the idea. I'm actually making "World Eaters jump packed units" more than berserkers; Though, since I'll give them mark of khorne and icon of wrath they will *ALMOST* be jump-packed berserkers, having rage, counter-attack and furious charge.

You can make "ALMOST-BERSERKER" units in the whole warband, and thinking about it, it's just what I want, after all.

 

Let me explain: what I want is that the World Eaters had the *DECENCY* of looking like TRUE WARRIORS, a RENEGADE SPACE MARINE LEGION and not A BUNCH OF MANIACS lovingly meeting suicide. The blood I want them to spill is NOT their own, so the World Eaters MUST have TACTICS. You can't avoid enemies shooting you out of awesomeness.

I do not like the idea that the world eaters are considered "the legion of the berserkers". It is just something that wouldn't work, since they would, de facto, depend on other legions for... pretty much EVERYTHING! This background mistake looks like it's been done just to let them bootlick the black legion, so they could integrate their forces. It SUCKS.

 

To prevent world eaters from becoming what they are now (which is plain silly), we should make them a bit more like they were in the old school days, where they did NOT HAVE ANY HANDICAP who prevented them from taking a :cussING BOLTGUN and SHOOT. (And to think that the present codex says "for the world eaters any weapon, be it a heavy rock or bare hands will do". Therefore, the Khorne Berserkers should be some kind of specialized melee combatants, the elite assault shock troops (and it's good that the present codex considers them elite who can be played as troops) and other world eaters could be normal tactical chaos space marines, havocs or other units.

 

Point is, we can ALREADY do these things. Perhaps they are a bit weaker if confronted to filthy mattwardish codexes, but it's those codexes who should be nerfed, and the chaos codex given more stuff to do customizations... but remember: the greatest way to make a custom army is to convert its units. What you see is what you get, so be ready to mount berserker heads and chainaxes to chaos bikers.

 

(Forgot to mention: yes, the brass collar of Khorne IS a must.)

 

Oh, and I'm a new player. Still have too much money to give to GW :P

[arkagl]

I quote myself on the Chaos Codex rant page in the Undivided section and since it does deal with the Khorne section of the codex I fel I should put it in here -

 

"I remember 3.5 when at GTs Chaos Players always had atleast 1 or 2 ppl in the top 10 on top of a large amount of 1st places. Now we're lucky to get into the top 50. My Khorne army was literally undefeatable. I place top 10 in the last Atlanta Games Day. Now if I whip the khorne out I am pretty much the laughing stock of my meta. I think GW didn't like Chaos winning so much they wanted them to go down in flames.

 

I played my old 3.5 codex army at the end of 5th to the current unbeatable armies like the Leaf Blower and the Palidin. It was a best of 3 experiment. My codex's universal rules were obviously updated to the rulebook's rules like Feel No Pain and others. 2 of ppl I played place high in ard boyz and some GTs and usually number 1 in my meta. I tabled all of them atleast once per best of 3 and only had played 2 games per army. Tell me how that works when the codex still hold up to ppl now. I'd say why did we even get a new codex they should have come out with an FAQ that said for this rule follow the Rulebook instead of your codex, thats it. Maybe they should have come out with a new codex with the exact same rules but new stuff like the Heldrake and Fiends. That saying comes to mind - If it wasn't broken why "fix it." It was a well rounded codex with a ton of different builds and all of them worked."

[Lord Doyok]

To me 6th Ed. hurts WE with the nerf to Rhino rush, but it wasn't that bad until they came out with Tau and Eldar.

 

Even with the silly disembarkment rules in 6th, I truly enjoy the current codex when it first came out. Then came the Dark Angels, and we all had fun beating each other. They are quite even actually.

 

Suddenly the Daemons came in with all the FMC madness, TAU with the no cover shooting, and Eldar with.. everything. And it wasn't fun anymore. My fluffy WE had no chance at all on table. I don't mind losing, as long as it was fun. But being bullied or manhandled like a kid are totally different experience. After a horribly hopeless game against a Tau-dar list (somewhere between July - August 2013), I stopped playing my WE completely. Stop playing 40k for a while, later picked up the Daemonic FMC and stand up to the meta. Yes I win a lot, but it wasn't fun.. I want to play my WE.. with Berserkers!

 

So now I'm trying so hard trying to bring back my fluffy WE. It will be difficult, and many would say it was hopeless, but I'm gonna keep on trying.