kujwa Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'm very new to the 40k universe. I've read several of the omnibus, HH books and just recently started the table top game. HH books are what really gripped me and have sucked me in, this is where my question stems from. Could Abaddon challenge a Primarch one on one? And how does Abaddon keep the Demon Primarchs in line? or am I under the wrong impression that he can give them orders that they'll follow. Could he handle a pissed off Angron? If anyone has a good online source to point me to that will help me learn more that would be appreciated. I read the 40k wiki page and love it. thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvak Kyre Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Abaddon probably couldn't win in a fight with one of the Daemon Primarchs(the odds are that he will get turned to paste). The Daemon Primarchs kind of just walked away from the war in a fighting sense but stayed in the background sorting their legions out. Abaddon controlled more of the renegade warbands like the Red Corsairs that didn't have a traitor Primarch to look up to. I hope I have helped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2861790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Physically I don't think Abbadon can handle any of the daemon primarchs but don't forget that he enjoys the backing of all 4 Ruinous Powers. They are therefore more inclined to at least follow his suggestions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2861827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Abbadons the favored of the gods. It's not so much that he can take on the Daemon Primarchs or that they want to listen to him, it's that they have to or their god will get pissed at them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2861839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 No Abaddon would get killed in short order. He can only get of of their way or follow in their wake, should they decide to stretch their legs. I doubt any of them would even talk with him, let alone take an order. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2861840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Do the demon primarchs exercise that much control over their legions? Angron obviously doesn't which is why his lot have broken up into warbands, maybe the others are only interested in their legions in so much as their legions follow the path of the gods. If so then Abaddon is only going to be dealing with the leaders of warbands, chapters and so forth and not the guys right at the top. When was the last time one of those primarchs was active outside the Eye? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2861931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I think the last time one of them stepped outside the Eye of Terrir was the Dominion of Fire (mid-38th millennium, Angron went on a huge rampage). It might have been Armeggodon though, I can't remember when that was. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2861959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Daemon Primarchs are usually following there specific Gods orders within the Eye of Terror, the only times any have stepped out of the Eye are. - The First War of Armageddon: Angron led an army of a space hulk full of Khorne Berzerkers and endless amount of Daemons, he is only sent back to the Warp thanks to an entire Brotherhood of Grey Knights and even that barely stopped him. - The Dominion of Fire: Angron again in front of an army of 50,000 Khorne Berzekers, not much else is know only that it barely got stopped and the fighting to reclaim worlds is still ongoing. - The Draigo Incident: Where Mortarion curb stomps Janus, the Grand Master of the Grey Knights in 901.m41 and in return has his entire bodyguard killed, plus having 'Janus' carved into his heart by Draigo single handedly. In short we do not know what the Daemon Primarchs are capable of as fluff is wildly inconsistant, there are many advantages becoming a Daemon Prince but there are quite a few weakness's with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2861987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Daemon Primarchs are usually following there specific Gods orders within the Eye of Terror, the only times any have stepped out of the Eye are. - The First War of Armageddon: Angron led an army of a space hulk full of Khorne Berzerkers and endless amount of Daemons, he is only sent back to the Warp thanks to an entire Brotherhood of Grey Knights and even that barely stopped him. - The Dominion of Fire: Angron again in front of an army of 50,000 Khorne Berzekers, not much else is know only that it barely got stopped and the fighting to reclaim worlds is still ongoing. - The Draigo Incident: Where Mortarion curb stomps Janus, the Grand Master of the Grey Knights in 901.m41 and in return has his entire bodyguard killed, plus having 'Janus' carved into his heart by Draigo single handedly. In short we do not know what the Daemon Primarchs are capable of as fluff is wildly inconsistant, there are many advantages becoming a Daemon Prince but there are quite a few weakness's with it. There's one more. During M32 Magnus the Red and his legion launched a full scale assault upon Fenris in an attempt to wipe out the Space Wolves, the conflict is known as the Battle of the Fang. Magnus himself was only just beaten by some of the Wolves' best fighters, including most of their Dreadnoughts, and managed to slay all those he fought barring one individual. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I think Abaddon could go toe to toe with Daemon Magnus if he brings his daemonic artifacts considering Bjorn could do it even for a moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I think Abaddon could go toe to toe with Daemon Magnus if he brings his daemonic artifacts considering Bjorn could do it even for a moment. It depends where he fought him. Magnus would be at full power in the Eye of Terror where as he had to possess one of his commanders to fight inside the Fang. To my knowledge daemons lose a considerable degree of their power in exchange for stability when they possess a mortal body. One example which comes to mind is Cherubael of the Eisenhorn series. The one time he manifests in full form he's able to kill a chaos powered Warlord Titian. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I think Abaddon could go toe to toe with Daemon Magnus if he brings his daemonic artifacts considering Bjorn could do it even for a moment. It depends where he fought him. Magnus would be at full power in the Eye of Terror where as he had to possess one of his commanders to fight inside the Fang. To my knowledge daemons lose a considerable degree of their power in exchange for stability when they possess a mortal body. One example which comes to mind is Cherubael of the Eisenhorn series. The one time he manifests in full form he's able to kill a chaos powered Warlord Titian. It also in the Eisenhorn series it says that digital weapons can blow people's heads off and we know that can't happen (well other than you *points at the monkey next to the grey knights*) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 It also in the Eisenhorn series it says that digital weapons can blow people's heads off and we know that can't happen (well other than you *points at the monkey next to the grey knights*) To be fair, that's a bit more ambiguous as it doesn’t specify the type of weapon it's based off of, range, and other things. If it has the power of a las pistol then at point blank range it would do just that, and if it was a needle with toxins designed to heighten a person's blood pressure to exploding point that could also be plausible. Or if it could specifically be designed to decapitate people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Daemon Princes (IIRC) don't have to worry about the stability, as they are both Daemon and Physical. They don't possess people or anything like pure daemons. Also, Abbadon has all four gods behind him, so he might be able to stand up to the Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord gunthar Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 One example which comes to mind is Cherubael of the Eisenhorn series. The one time he manifests in full form he's able to kill a chaos powered Warlord Titian. I thought that the titan cherubael killed was a warhound titan ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 One example which comes to mind is Cherubael of the Eisenhorn series. The one time he manifests in full form he's able to kill a chaos powered Warlord Titian. I thought that the titan cherubael killed was a warhound titan ? Nope, it's listed as being Warlord class. To quote the specific sentence when it turns up: "Like all the great Warlord-class Battle Titans, it was biped, almost humanoid in its proportions." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2862969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 And how does Abaddon keep the Demon Primarchs in line? or am I under the wrong impression that he can give them orders that they'll follow. Could he handle a pissed off Angron? Abaddon only controls the Black Legion itself. The Black Crusades are when a large amount of the Chaos Marine Legions/Renegade Chapters band together to kill, maim, burn, and steal cookies. While Abaddon might have lead some of them (Perhaps most? Can't remember) he doesn't actually command the Demon Primarchs. And as was said, the Demon Prices mostly stay within the Eye of Terror anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2864215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmodai78 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Daemon Primarchs are usually following there specific Gods orders within the Eye of Terror, the only times any have stepped out of the Eye are. - The First War of Armageddon: Angron led an army of a space hulk full of Khorne Berzerkers and endless amount of Daemons, he is only sent back to the Warp thanks to an entire Brotherhood of Grey Knights and even that barely stopped him. - The Dominion of Fire: Angron again in front of an army of 50,000 Khorne Berzekers, not much else is know only that it barely got stopped and the fighting to reclaim worlds is still ongoing. - The Draigo Incident: Where Mortarion curb stomps Janus, the Grand Master of the Grey Knights in 901.m41 and in return has his entire bodyguard killed, plus having 'Janus' carved into his heart by Draigo single handedly. In short we do not know what the Daemon Primarchs are capable of as fluff is wildly inconsistant, there are many advantages becoming a Daemon Prince but there are quite a few weakness's with it. There's one more. During M32 Magnus the Red and his legion launched a full scale assault upon Fenris in an attempt to wipe out the Space Wolves, the conflict is known as the Battle of the Fang. Magnus himself was only just beaten by some of the Wolves' best fighters, including most of their Dreadnoughts, and managed to slay all those he fought barring one individual. I thought Magnus only attacked Fenris to stop the SW fixing the Canis Helix which prevented them from forming seccssor chapers as he though one SW chapter in the galaxy was enough to handle? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2865839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 That was the main objective but Magnus wanted revenge for his shattered legion(and spine) nonetheless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2866041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The Daemon Primarchs are above mortal concerns so they rarely even leave their planets (each one has his own daemon world). If they did though I don't think they'd even talk to Abaddon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2866309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabouri Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Hi guys, I was reading the topic here and a friend mentioned the Magnus attack on fenris. I wonder, is there any novel which describes this particular attack ?. I mean. apart from comments or brief accounts, on codexes and simiral sources ? Thank you very much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2867314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Battle of the Fang I believe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2867336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabouri Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Aaa thank you very much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2867397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Asmodai78, I was trying not to reveal the best part of that novel for anyone who had not read it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237332-abaddon-question/#findComment-2867859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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