Drop Pods, built to be opened, or glued shut?

[Silverwolf]

Simple enough question, on the surface anyway.

 

7-8 Drop Pods to be put together... do I model them with doors glued shut and go with the easy painting option, or take the time to paint the interiors and allow the doors to open?

 

Now, I thought this was a simple enough choice at first, until I realised I've seen them open on the TT by other people... and you can see THROUGH them... and 5th ed uses true line of sight. So. Question then becomes, is it cheating, by LOS blocking with something which other people will be leaving open to be seen through?

 

And if the doors are open, are they part of the vehicle? Or just cosmetic? Can you place a drop pod in a lane, and open the doors, to physically block passage while still being able to fire past it? (Enemy units unable to move "through" your now immobilised vehicle sitting on the table).

 

Is there any Errata, anywhere, that says one way or the other specifically?

 

So I ask again, built to be opened, or glued shut?

 

 

Edit: Oh, and don't forget, the Storm Bolter is mounted INSIDE the Pod, so if the doors are shut, and it can't be seen, and we're using true line of sight... can it fire?

[Martok]

Hey,

 

It was FAQ'd that they need to be open so that you can draw LOS through them. You then ignore the petals in terms of moving through cover and the vehicles footprint.

 

- Martok

[Silverwolf]

Cool, was it SM or SW FAQ? Had a read through the SW one but must of missed it if it was in there.

 

Edit: Just scanned through Rulebook, SM, & SW Errata's/FAQs, nothing about what you said. Can you reference where you saw that?

[Valerian]

Hey,

 

It was FAQ'd that they need to be open so that you can draw LOS through them. You then ignore the petals in terms of moving through cover and the vehicles footprint.

 

- Martok

 

Please provide a link to this mysterious FAQ, or just provide the quote, as I've never seen it.

 

Silverwolf, there was a very long discussion about this over in the Official Rules subforum. This was one issue that really was not resolved, as there were vocal proponents to both sides of the debate. My Drop Pods are old 3rd party ones from back before GW was making their own plastic models for them. Mine were designed as a one-piece model, so there are no doors to open. I don't play tournaments, but in friendly games I resolve this simply by discussing with my opponent before we start, just as you should go through the details of each piece of terrain before-hand. Essentially, I show them the model, then give them a choice, which is usually: a) treat is "as is", so it becomes LOS blocking to anything behind, so you can't shoot through it, or b) "pretend" that it is now open, so can be shot through, but provides Cover to units on the far side.

 

EDIT: OR Discussion. This duscussion made it up to 240 posts before dying out.

 

Valerian

[DV8]

Yup no Official Games Workshop FAQ exists to clarify Drop Pods.

 

What Martok may be referencing is the INAT FAQ used by most major tournaments (Warmaster's Challenge, Adepticon, etc.) which does:

 

SM.69A.01 - Q: When a player deploys a Drop Pod can he choose to keep the doors open or closed? If the Drop Pod doors are deployed open can models deploy within 2" of them?"

A: Once the Drop Pod lands, the doors remain open for the rest of the game. However, all measurements to and from the Drop Pod, besides firing its weapon, are done based on the hull of the Drop Pod (it's shape when the doors are closed). This means, for example, that friendly and enemy models will be able to move on top of the open doors [clarification].

Ref: BT.22B.02, BA.32B.01, DA.35B.01, SW.47A.01

 

If the doors cannot be opened (they are glued in place or a player is using a model that doesn't have doors that open/has a solid core), both players must agree before the game to either pretend, to the best of their abilities, that the doors are open and both players can see 'through' the core for line of sight purposes, or they can play that the model blocks line of sight 'as is' in which case the Space Marine player will be unable to fire the Drop Pod's weapon (a trade-off for the improved line of sight blocking ability of the model) [rules change].

 

 

Note that this INAT FAQ is not official, and not endorsed by Games Workshop. While comprehensive and actually very useful (hence why so many tournaments use it), realize that the INAT FAQ may not be accepted everywhere and thus cannot be used in any actual rules debate unless there is an acceptance for it's validity.

 

I recommend building your Drop Pods to be able to open the doors, that way you bypass these issues entirely. Plus they look so much cooler open!

 

However, what Valerian suggests (and what the INAT FAQ suggests in it's sub-section regarding doors that cannot be opened) is something I endorse as well; in cases where it might be of contention, resolve with your opponent before hand. If this is not done, or if neither of you can reach a conclusion of how to address, then you resolve to RAW and the official model.

 

RAW True Line of Sight. If you can't see through the Drop Pod, you cannot shoot units behind, or be shot through it. Likewise, referencing the official model (who's weapon is mounted inside), if the doors don't open (thus obscure the weapon mount), the Drop Pod cannot fire it's weapon as it technically cannot draw True Line of Sight.

 

 

DV8

[Wulfebane]

Per the SW 5E codex:

 

Fire Points and Access Points: Once deployed, the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

 

I'm not gunna check the other discussion to see if this has been mention, refuted, or whatever. Personally, though, if you have the capability of not sealing the Drop Pod, imo do so. That said, I doubt many people will care if you close it up. It's like oh so many Ork battlewagons or DEldar transport skimmers I see that are "open-topped" but I've yet to see the models in the vehicles (not that they'd fit anyway) and in most Ork player's cases, they've built some sort of monstrosity that it's no longer open-top looking anyway. Also, there's now (or it's been around forever and I didn't know?) an open-top rhino for Sisters that I doubt many people will bother converting to actually be open-top.

 

In short, leaving the doors open is better, imo, but I very much doubt anyone's gunna cry over it.

[DV8]

Fire Points and Access Points: Once deployed, the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

 

Not to belabor a point, but this is very anecdotal and would hold little weight in a RAW argument. Playing devil's advocate here, technically a Coke can with it's top cut off is "no longer a sealed environment" and could be considered (literally) open-topped. But the sides still block Line of Sight to that refreshing liquid contained therein.

 

Note that I am not disagreeing with you, merely pointing out your quote means very little in a RAW argument.

 

The only TRUE argument with regards to Line of Sight (closed vs open doors) is True Line of Sight. If you can see through the model, you can shoot through. If not, you can't. Likewise, closed doors does mean the gun mount inside can't shoot (as we have an official model to reference from). Anything else (even a compromise between players) is a house rule (even if only temporarily).

 

Now with regards to the open doors counting as part of the hull...that's another ball of wax entirely which I don't want to go into.

 

 

...I want a Coke now...

 

 

DV8

[red_starrise]

Personally due to the pain in the ass that drop pods can be at getting the doors to actually shut completely I built mine onto a crater a lil bigger than than the pod at a slightly canted angle & then just let the doors fall open onto the rim of the crater. Now as for the interior, I didn't put any of that junk in so that when I deploy the pod I have my marines inside of it & they can pile out just cuz I think it's kinda fun lol.

[DV8]

*snip

... due to the pain in the ass that drop pods can be at getting the doors to actually shut completely...

*snip*

 

Depends how adept you are at modelling (not to say you're incompetent, but there is an art to the sequence and manner with which you can attach the parts. Accelerant definitely helps. I've assembled 3 Drop Pods so far, all of which have doors that close perfectly. The first Drop Pod took about 2 hours to assemble (first time, took a lot of experimenting and fiddling/dry fitting). The other two were assembled at the same time and only took about 30 minutes.

 

 

DV8

[Valerian]

Fire Points and Access Points: Once deployed, the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

 

Not to belabor a point, but this is very anecdotal and would hold little weight in a RAW argument. Playing devil's advocate here, technically a Coke can with it's top cut off is "no longer a sealed environment" and could be considered (literally) open-topped. But the sides still block Line of Sight to that refreshing liquid contained therein.

 

Note that I am not disagreeing with you, merely pointing out your quote means very little in a RAW argument.

 

 

Exactly, even a pinhole makes a chemical/biological mask a "non-sealed environment".

 

 

Personally due to the pain in the ass that drop pods can be at getting the doors to actually shut completely I built mine onto a crater a lil bigger than than the pod at a slightly canted angle

 

Can you provide a picture of that? Sounds interesting.

 

V

[Grimtooth]

I am magnetizing my drop pod petals next time I build some. Magnets to keep them closed and magnets to remove the petals as if they are blown off when the pod lands.

[red_starrise]

*snip

... due to the pain in the ass that drop pods can be at getting the doors to actually shut completely...

*snip*

 

Depends how adept you are at modelling (not to say you're incompetent, but there is an art to the sequence and manner with which you can attach the parts. Accelerant definitely helps. I've assembled 3 Drop Pods so far, all of which have doors that close perfectly. The first Drop Pod took about 2 hours to assemble (first time, took a lot of experimenting and fiddling/dry fitting). The other two were assembled at the same time and only took about 30 minutes.

 

 

DV8

 

Quite possible. I've only built one of them so far. Most of the drop pod models I have are scratchbuilds. I didn't expect it to be a problem, I suppose that the next one will be better (if I ever buy any of them again, I'd rather buy more versatile kits for the price lol). It does seem to be a common issue in my LGS though lol.

[Silverwolf]

I am magnetizing my drop pod petals next time I build some. Magnets to keep them closed and magnets to remove the petals as if they are blown off when the pod lands.

 

Good idea :down:

 

Yeah sounds like another little detail GW really should give some official clarification on, yet I doubt we'll see it.

 

Treat it like terrain, agree with opponent pre-game. Might just try and stick with drawing LOS through it provides a 4+ cover, and petals are ignored as far as movement goes (Magnetising them will help with this in practicality terms).

[elithren]

It can depend on the crew you play against. Drop pod doors can be really annoying to try and place to be open, especially if the pod scatters close to your opponents models cause they just whack and beat things to submission. I glued mine all shut and play them as open topped/can shoot through them but give 4+ cover same to target.