Gop Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi all. In my most recent list I had a few points spare and thought I'd give my 5 scouts sniper rifles (1 has a meltagun of course). Do you think this is a crap idea? I know the squad will probably die pretty quick, but if they live for even an extra turn, they could do something good. 9 points doesn't seem a lot for the experiement ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipherChost Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Many wolves will tell you that you should have them as an armor popping team as they are best suited for that role (melta, plasma, WG w'combi and fisthammer). There is nothing wrong with running a sniper team for fun, I have 9 snipers and a single ML team that is for fun. You say you have a melta in there, how do you plan to run this squad? You will have better payback on your scout investment if you do not have them OBEL (as they will die extremly fast). Switching the melta for a ML or heavy bolter would be more benificial to match the needs/range/roll of a sniper team. Try it out and see how it goes, you may find they support the rest of your army after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 In games of 1500 + I kit my Scouts for tank busting, but I was given some good advise that I stick with.... I add a couple points to the unit and give my plasma pistol and MOTW Scouts sniper rifles. I use it as insureace againts a bad BEL roll. Gives them some reach if they come in on the wrong flank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverwolf Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 If you want to run a scout heavy list, I'd look at an OBEL team, with a sniper/missile team supporting. Sniper/Missile teams can make for a fairly nice low-points(ish) distraction, to sit out on the far corner of the table somewhere. Divide & conquer is always a good rule, and anything that can help you do this is a plus. I tend to use Pods and fast moving units to achieve the same result, but if your using a more static list, then a team of sniper scouts sitting out on a flank can work to draw some of the enemy out of position to go deal with them, leaving you one less unit to worry about with your main force for a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=231929 post #4, #6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_starrise Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 In 3rd/4th Ed I used to run a Sniper Pack w/ sniper rifles which would infiltrate normally & an OBEL w/ meltagun, power weapons & plasma pistols. But then OBEL worked differently back then as well as I KNEW they were coming in on my opponent's table edge, it wasn't random & every infiltrator/scout unit couldn't outflank then either so they were much more unique. Of course they also didn't have to compete for elites slots w/ dreads as bad cause I could have a ven dread as an HQ back then. Now it's been a strong consideration as, I run my SM Scouts as snipers & SW Scouts are so much better being that they are BS 4 now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 & SW Scouts are so much better being that they are BS 4 now. I know it's more common to use scouts as tank-poppers, but I think it's a bit presumptuous to count them out for anything but a fun game, as RipherChost put it. Specifically when taking their BS4 into account. Honestly, I think this places them at the top (or near, for argument's sake) for all scout options because of how versatile this makes them. I also think the same people who play scouts as tank-poppers are the same people who don't think it's often that scout packs live longer than a turn or two. Sniper packs (atleast I know mine do) can easily live through the whole fight. I always load mine out with minimum of 3 rifles and a ML. Lately though, I've been thinking of trading out the ML for a heavy bolter. Since my rifles tend not to focus on tanks, the ML generally goes for a frag, which misses a lot or doesn't cover enough to warrant it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherRanik Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I personally run two scout packs of 5 with meltaguns, WG with Combi-Melta, and x5 sniper rifles. I've found that if I'm fighting tanks, I'll use the normal OBEL with melta like most other wolf players. However, if I'm fighting Nids or other armies and lists that don't have many tanks or none at all, I'll infiltrate into some ruins or a hill and snipe monstrous creatures and pin enemy squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverwolf Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I also think the same people who play scouts as tank-poppers are the same people who don't think it's often that scout packs live longer than a turn or two. Sniper packs (atleast I know mine do) can easily live through the whole fight. I've had an OBEL scout pack of 5 with WGPL come on turn 2, and last two the end with few enough losses to remain scoring, and claim the table quarter they were in. Yes, sometimes they come on, kill something, then die, which is why it's best to keep them relatively cheap to maintain they're points/effectiveness. However I've had plenty of occasions where that single squad has turned the tide of a game purely by tying up units in the enemy back line that they were relying on for fire support. I've actually been toying with running a WGBL with storm shield and thunder hammer, just to make them a lot more scary looking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think it's worth it for a small squad to all have Sniper Rifles. Add in the fact that you can take them without losing an attack and all of a sudden 15pts for a marked increase in versatility doesn't seem like much at all. Rule in question: "Where an option states that may exchange one weapon 'and/or' another, you may replace either, neither, or both provided you pay the points cost." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverwolf Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Where is that line from? (Codex left at home today :)) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuro Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I think it's worth it for a small squad to all have Sniper Rifles. Add in the fact that you can take them without losing an attack and all of a sudden 15pts for a marked increase in versatility doesn't seem like much at all. Rule in question: "Where an option states that may exchange one weapon 'and/or' another, you may replace either, neither, or both provided you pay the points cost." I'm afraid you're misreading this. If you're replacing neither you're not actually getting the new weapon, because no exchange has taken place. What it's saying (and unnecessarily at that, because the use of 'may' tells us it's not mandatory in the first place) is that just because a model has an option, doesn't mean it has to use it. Tsuro Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Sniper = Heavy SW scouts = Obel means you get fast into short range/ melee range Conclusion, snipers are a waste of points in SW list. Thats just my oppinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2862946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 snipers always wound on 4+. unit of 5 sniperscouts = 90 pts. I'd go as far as using 1 10 man unit of snipers and 2 5 man squads with MotW and meltagun. snipers deploy as normal scouts, 5 man squads obel, specialy when confronted with Tyrannids Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_starrise Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Sniper = Heavy SW scouts = Obel means you get fast into short range/ melee range Conclusion, snipers are a waste of points in SW list. Thats just my oppinion. I don't follow you here... so anything that's heavy is a waste of points in SW lists? Or what makes sniper scouts a waste of points? If you elect to infiltrate & scout move them into a good position w/ good fields of fire they can be outright deadly. My SM Sniper Scouts have proven to be plain nasty against tyranids & orks & great harassers of MEQs & they're only BS3. I think it depends on how each person runs their list. Remember, Space Wolves are not Blood Angels, they aren't close combat monsters & scouts aren't meant to be suicide units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Thanks for the discussion! My intention was to initially use the scouts as tank poppers. I'm running a min squad with 1 meltagun, along with a WG who has Combimelta and chainfist. I realise this might be a bit overkill. The unit initially wants to destroy the opponents best tank. The WG could optionally leave the squad and kill another tank (can WG leave a sqaud they are leading? They are Elite, but also the squad leader). I had a few points left while list making so I thought, on the off chance the scouts aren't killed quickly, and there were no other tanky targets nearby, they could adopt a secondary role by hiding in buildings, forest etc. and get in 2-3 rounds of sniping. Considering it would cost me 9 pts for some rifles, it sounded good. It's not like the scouts are combat monsters so the sniping idea seemed to add value to the unit. Anyway, I'll report back after the tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 along with a WG who has Combimelta and chainfist. Uhhh... by chainfist, do you mean a Wolf Guard in TDA? Terminators cannot join Wolf Scout units. As for the Wolf Guard leaving the squad... also not possible. Since Wolf Guard are Infantry and not Independent Characters, they must remain with the squad you've placed them with. AFAIK, the only army that can do something similar to this (and admittedly, I know very little of other army tactics atm) are Ork boyz being able to combine mobs when one or more mobs get low, to rebuild their unit size in order to protect them from Leadership checks due to casualties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I also think the same people who play scouts as tank-poppers are the same people who don't think it's often that scout packs live longer than a turn or two. Sniper packs (atleast I know mine do) can easily live through the whole fight. I've had an OBEL scout pack of 5 with WGPL come on turn 2, and last two the end with few enough losses to remain scoring, and claim the table quarter they were in. As Elite choices, your Wolf Scouts should never be Scoring. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 along with a WG who has Combimelta and chainfist. Uhhh... by chainfist, do you mean a Wolf Guard in TDA? Terminators cannot join Wolf Scout units. As for the Wolf Guard leaving the squad... also not possible. Since Wolf Guard are Infantry and not Independent Characters, they must remain with the squad you've placed them with. AFAIK, the only army that can do something similar to this (and admittedly, I know very little of other army tactics atm) are Ork boyz being able to combine mobs when one or more mobs get low, to rebuild their unit size in order to protect them from Leadership checks due to casualties. I don't think Orks have been able to "Mob Up" for many years; I think that was a rule in their old codex, not the current one that was released right before 5th Edition. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverwolf Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I also think the same people who play scouts as tank-poppers are the same people who don't think it's often that scout packs live longer than a turn or two. Sniper packs (atleast I know mine do) can easily live through the whole fight. I've had an OBEL scout pack of 5 with WGPL come on turn 2, and last two the end with few enough losses to remain scoring, and claim the table quarter they were in. As Elite choices, your Wolf Scouts should never be Scoring. V 4th Ed., 1750pt tourney with special rules for each round ;). Between that squad, and a WGBL with 2 remaining Bloodclaws, they wiped 60 IG, a company command squad, and 1 & 1/2 Heavy Weapon teams off the table, finishing the game just inside an unclaimed quarter to give me the win :). Another game was a melee over petrol supplies, where we could only move 1 vehicle / petrol supply we controlled. Against BT, messy game lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I don't think Orks have been able to "Mob Up" for many years; I think that was a rule in their old codex, not the current one that was released right before 5th Edition. Valerian Wait seriously?? I was robbed of an 'Ard Boyz slot b/c of that! (Sorry for the off-topic. You may now resume.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2863864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Thanks to this thread, I'm putting a squad of Wolf Scouts with 4 Sniper Rifles and 1 Missile Launcher in my game coming up on Friday. One of my regular opponents is a Tyranid player that has been using a heavy does of Trygons and Hive Tyrants lately. For 97 points, this seems to be a very cost-effective solution. My Long Fangs can continue to target the Tau vehicles that are also usually on the opposing side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2864280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I think a nice squad of Wolf Scout sniper could be fun. You use them as a long distance crowd control, pinning units so you can regulate the flow of battle as to where and how you want enemy units to engage with your Grey Hunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2864317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I don't think Orks have been able to "Mob Up" for many years; I think that was a rule in their old codex, not the current one that was released right before 5th Edition. Valerian Wait seriously?? I was robbed of an 'Ard Boyz slot b/c of that! (Sorry for the off-topic. You may now resume.) Sorry for continued off-topic, Orks are one of my four armies (and my only Xenos one), so I'm pretty sure I have remembered this correctly. I'll try to remember to double-check when I get home. I believe you did get robbed in 'Ard Boyz, and I'm pretty surprised that no one noticed. You might want to bring it to someone's attention (once we verify that I'm not just senile), so that the next round is not similarly affected. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2864372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The number of sniper scout to take is important. I find that 6 with sniper rifles and 1 HB gives me enough dice to actually hope for a kill. Just to give an example if you have 9 sniper rifles and hit with 6 then cause a wounds on 3 of those units, with AP 6 you pretty much have to get a rending hit to count on a kill. So 7 is the fewest I will take if I take them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237399-sw-scouts-with-sniper-rifles/#findComment-2864719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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