Mechanised Blood Angels

[Father Mapple]

Here's how I run a Landraider in a Mech army: put in an Assault Squad and priest. Assault Troops drop the price of the Landraider a bit, and they still hurt a ton charging out of even a normal Landraider since the models have grenades, S5 and I5, and FNP.

 

I normally run a regular Landraider with 9 Marines and 1 Priest inside. The priest stays inside unless I have points for a power weapon. The 9 guys get a fist and flamer, since the Twin Linked Lascannons should have opened any armor nearby. When it's time to charge, they come out, with grenades, pistols, and just enough CC power to do some damage.

 

It can be a long range objective sitter, since it has 2 lascannons and a heavy bolter. It is pretty good at anti tank with 2 target possibilities. It can provide cover for other things sitting behind it if you have to go first. It's an amazing midfield taker since it can drive 12 inches forward, shoot something still, and have guys assault out. And they'll be I5 and S5 when they do it, with FNP for return strikes.

 

The advantage of having a troops choice with AV14 and still being a very durable in CC or long ranged is priceless. If you play it right, and have enough threats, like other AV13 Lascannon sponson predators to be threats at long range, or Vindicator/Stormraven in the midfield, Baal Predators from flanks, etc, you'll be spoiled for choices of what to do with the Landraider.

 

Redeemers HAVE to move forward to be useful, and Crusaders have to be in midfield to use all those 24" guns. That means your opponent has a couple of turns before your guys get out and assault or shoot the big guns. With a regular landraider that has troops inside it, it's a threat first turn, and even if it misses, it's a scoring liability.

[BrotherWasted]

Blood Angels Mech:

 

3 Baal Preds

3 AC/LC Preds

 

Fill the rest of your army with whatever. I prefer some Assault Squads backed by a Reclusiarch and some Priests.

[kolbywhite28]

***TROOPS***

2 Assault Squads (10 Marines, Powerfist, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino)

2 Tactical Squads (10 Marines, Powerfist, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino)

 

:P

[Black Memories]

Running land raiders in a mech list is fine, you just cant razorspam. That isn't to say you don't take razors, you just don't spam them. I never take more than 2 razors and it never causes me any problems, 2 is plenty. I will say that if you take a land raider theres 2 ways to go with a mech list.

 

1) Throw a good close combat deathstar unit in the land raider variant of your choice and make it a grizzly counter-assault vehicle and stack the rest of your army with tons of shooting.

 

2) Use said deathstar unit in conjunction with other assault units and support it with long ranged firepower.

 

An example of number 2 would be a list i just recently ran in a league game and with a bit of luck ran over my GK opponent.

 

Mephiston

Librarian- term armor, ss, shield of sanguinius, unleashed rage

2 sanguinary priests- 2 pw

assault terminators- 3 th/ss, 2 lc

LRC-multi melta, extra armor

8 assault marines- melta gun, power fist

Rhino-dozer blades

5 assault marines

Razorback-tllc

5 Assault marines

Razorback-tllc

Predator-lascannon sponsons

 

Tank busting firepower, speed, combat ability. Low on scoring models but enough threats to provide ample distraction. This list actually isn't too far off some of the finals qualifying adepticon lists either, same synergetic idea. Lots of strengths means you're able to handle a lot of situations and opponents. Firepower heavy lists tend to do very well against some opponents, and a bit less against others, which is why I tend to run a bit more balanced lists.

[Deschenus Maximus]

An "Autolas pred" is presumably a standard Predator with additional lascannon side sponsons? Is that the normal go-to for your Heavy Support choice? I notice Whirlwinds are rarely picked up and I hear excellent things about Vindicators taken in pairs. Is there a reason you prefer the Predator?

 

-Yes, Autolas is indeed AC + las sponsons

-Yes, it's usually my first pick, but this will be influenced by what I use elsewhere in the list.

-Whirlies are cheap but unreliable. Dakka preds (AC + HB sponsons) are only 10 pts more and come with AV 13 front, ability to hurt light armour and are more reliable.

-If you are going to take Vindies, take 2+, indeed.

-The predator is cheap(ish) and provides good long-range AT fire.

 

Jump infantry I understand. What's wrong with Scout Squads? Don't they provide an element of long-ranged fire power with an excellent protective cover save? I mean, I understand that they're not vehicles, but not everything in a mechanised list is a vehicle, no? Also, you specify Terminator Tactical Squads - what about Terminator Assault Squads. Are they viable? I guess we're talking about them or Death Company in a Land Raider for your assault element, right?

 

-Sniper Scouts are fine. CC (close combat) scouts are not.

-Assault termies are very very deadly, but be mindful that they will take a huge chunk of your points to field them + necessary Land Raider. I tend to stick to more squads with more guns than one big killy squad.

 

Cool, I understand there's a lot to be said on the subject. I guess we're looking at messing up lances, lascannons and missiles to start. That sort of thing. Do you ever reserve stuff? Because reserving with non-jump infantry is so much less reliable for bringing them on the table, I wonder if it's worth it. Maybe I've just been spoiled with my rerolls for failed reserve rolls... :lol:

 

-Reserving sometimes not only desirable; it can be necessary. For examples, against a Drop Pod list or Chaos Daemons, you will seriously hinder your opponent's effectiveness due to the way pods and daemons work.

-Also, if you plan on using Storm Ravens, you are better to reserve them if you don't get first turn.

 

Is cover really such a big issue for mechanised lists? Why so? I would have assumed that keeping units shielded behind each other or behind walls or terrain is fairly straight forward, no? Everyone that discusses it, though, seems to like the Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius. How many do you take? If you have Mephiston in the list, do you bother with another psyker?

 

It seems from the various combinations that you don't plan on moving your army much at all. You aim to sit still and have the weaponry to cope with your enemy as he crosses the board towards you. How does that cope against dedicated gunlines? I would have thought Imperial Guard, Space Wolves (Eldar? Dark Eldar?) would cope against that sort of list pretty well. It also just seems a bit less fun to me. How much movement do you get out of your army?

 

-Mech training will mean you usually will have cover, but that will not be possible 100% of the time. Plus, Shield of Sanguinius works in the opponent's turn. Ergo, you can use Shield of Sang + a power in your own turn without paying the 50 pts Epistolary tax.

-I usually take just 1 libby, and if I use Mephi, I don't take another psyker.

-My army moves plenty. Blood Angels mech is still often able to out-assault other armies, so my guns will be firing while my assault elements move forward.

 

You're not a fan of Vindicators, then? :jaw: I had been led to believe that if you're taking them at all, you need to take two. What kind of army do you think they're best suited at fighting?

 

Do you generally expect to use your embarked troops aggressively or defensively? I mean, is your aim to move up into the enemy, disembark and charge, or do you keep them embarked until the enemy is on your doorstep and you need to buy another round of shooting from your Razorback? I assume the latter.

 

-Vindies are best at fighting small elite formations where losses hurt. So GK (non-coteaz lists) would be a good candidate, I suppose. So would Deathwing/Loganwing.

-I will use my troops differently depending on what army I am facing. Against things like Nids or Orks, I will play more defensively. Against Guard or other SM, I will go for the throat.

 

So I was thinking that given you seem to use your Fast Attack slots on Land Speeders, maybe I ought to use a Land Raider Redeemer in place of Baal Predators for short-range anti-personnel. Land Speeders cover my mid-table with melta and my Razorbacks and Predators pump out lascannon to my opponent's backline. A Land Raider Redeemer with Death Company inside should deter anyone from closing with my tanks too quickly, right? :jaw:

 

Note: having written that I just went and looked at the Codex again. Of course, I forgot that Land Speeders can be taken in squads of up to three, so not all my Fast Attack slots need to be filled with them. Do you think a single squad of three multi-melta Land Speeders is sufficient, combined with two Baal Predators with flamestorm cannons?

 

-LRR with DC will deter some armies, but not all of them.

-A single squad of speeders tends to get shot down rather quick because they are paper-thin yet are such a huge threat. Best to have 2 or 3 squadrons.

 

You think we pay more because they're in a separate FOC slot? That could be the case, though I'd be slightly surprised. I suspect they're highly-priced because they have the Scout special rule. Are they viable as almost suicide units, starting with a couple in your enemy's face and just unloading with flamestorm cannons at his weakest units? How do you best take advantage of their ability to Scout?

 

-Well, I think it makes more sense that they be so expensive due to being an AV 13 vehicle in a FA slot. TLAC and Scouts doesn't justify the extra 45 pts over a dakka pred on their own, I think.

-Don't use them for suicides like that. If you want to go with flame baals, use TLHF razors to go along with them. Otherwise go with TLAC + HB sponsons.

-Scout is best use to get side shots are enemy armour, of get into range more quickly, imo.

 

Bikes get crazy cover saves, don't they? Attack Bikes are ten points cheaper than Land Speeders and come in the same-sized units. Would you consider them instead of Land Speeders? They get the bike cover save, they don't pay the points for deep striking and each model has two wounds. You're relying on T4(5) instead of AV10, but that doesn't seem to me to be significantly different, especially with armour saves, cover saves and a reasonable toughness and wounds statline.

 

Both speeders and AB are good. It comes down a lot to personnal taste as to which to use.

 

I would have thought that Devastators provide a much greater coverage of firepower and the ability to take more damage than Predators. They're less mobile and slightly more expensive, though. Why do you think that Predators are so much move valuable? I guess their front armour ignores any weapon that's S6 or lower. That's got to be worth something.

 

Oh. I just checked the autocannon entry. I had no idea they were Heavy 2. They'll do a decent amount of damage to pretty much anything, too, so long as it isn't in power armour. Jeepers. Suddenly, combined with the power of the flamestorm cannon, I'm coming around to the idea of mechanised Blood Angels!

 

So I guess if you stay still, you can put out four shots with an autocannon/lascannons Predator? Two each from the lascannons and the autocannon. So that matches the damage output of the Devastators, or near as dammit. Ok, I think I might be sold on that!

 

-Devs aren't mobile and don't contribute on their own to armour saturation. They are good be belong more in footlists.

-You don't need to sit still with the autolas pred. It's a Fast vehicle, ergo it can move at combat speed and still fire everytihing.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Stuff....

 

Thanks, brother. Comprehensive response. I really appreciate you taking the time!

[Brother_Byhlli]

Are Librarians better-suited to sitting in Rhinos and using Blood Lance? I don't know that I'd generally be in range to use it, since the average range is... what? 14"? It's not great, but if you were to put your Librarian in a Razorback, what second psychic power would you use?

 

Also, how high a priority are Sanguinary Priests for mechanised Blood Angels? I guess they make your five-man units slightly less than awful in combat, but do you have other priority units to consider before Sanguinary Priests? In a jump infantry list, I make a point of having Sanguinary Priests to cover my troops, but I guess they're less of an issue in a mechanised list.

 

Thoughts?

[SamaNagol]

You don't really need SPs if you are running full mech. You can live without them.

 

5 man squads aren't built for combat. You should have other things in the list to deal with assault duties like Death Company or various flavours of Dreadnoughts.

[Bartali]

5 man squads aren't built for combat.

 

Taken en-masse with FC/FNP bubbles they most definately are.

[Brother_Byhlli]

5 man squads aren't built for combat.

 

Taken en-masse with FC/FNP bubbles they most definately are.

 

This was my opinion. I can understand using Death Company against the big nasties, but even twenty Feel No Pain, Furious Charge Assault Squad Space Marines will lay the hurt on people and you've already got them in your army.

 

I see the Sanguinary Priest as being necessary to make the five-man squads viable in combat. Without them, you're wasting points on units that are far too one-dimensional. With them, you have the option of assaulting if you need to. For 50 points, it's a worthy upgrade.

[vahouth]

I've noticed that none takes a Techmarine in a mech list.

Isn't there a space for a poor technician? ;)

[Brother_Byhlli]

I've noticed that none takes a Techmarine in a mech list.

Isn't there a space for a poor technician? :D

 

Yeah, I asked that myself. Apparently there are better options.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Do Razorbacks come with the lascannon/twin-linked plasma gun option on the sprue? I've looked at upgrade sprues for Rhinos and none of them have the plasma guns. They seems to be either twin-linked lascannons or heavy bolters.

 

If the sprue doesn't come with the plasma gun option, how do you guys go about converting?

[SamaNagol]

Razorbacks dont come with 3 of our 4 best options. No TL Assault Cannon, no TL Hvy Flamer and no Lascannon/TL Plasmagun. Wll done GW

[Deschenus Maximus]

Some options for conversions:

-Take the twin las, chop off one of the las and glue to plasmaguns in its place. This is the most common conversion

-Take the base from the quad AC turrets from the Aegis Defence Line kit, add a lascannon from any provenance, and glue plasmaguns to each side of the las.

-Take the Storm Raven turret, glue a lascannon barrel to the fron and plasmaguns to either sides.

[bebe]

I play a 1500 mech list now that works very well. I also have all the models I need to up it 2500 but let's start with smaller lists. They require a bit more thought and are not quite as flexible.

 

1) I have two squads of 5 man RaS in Razors and I take a Priest w/ combi-melta/LC for added punch on one IF they are going to assault. They will disembark in most games - I want to use those meltas.

2) I use three Preds up front - 2 Baals and a heavy - no flamers on Baals - not worth it.

3) My hammer squad is indeed in a LRC w/ MM/Xtra Armor. Twen men, two meltas, Corbulo (he has his uses) and a Libby with Shield/Sword. One LR works when you have three Preds and two Razors.

4) At 1750 I add in my HG in another Razor - they are kitted out to do some damage.

 

With expansion ...

 

- Do not take scouts in a mech list. Mine are sitting on the shelf.

- Devs are best in DoA lists where they need that backfield firwe support. You COULD mount them up if you feel the needs but Preds work better.

- You CAN take a squad of RaS w/ JPs. But then you need a jump Priest and Meph in your list. Nothing wrong with that, IMHO.

- I sometimes insert a Libbie Dread in my list. I give him Might and Wings. I prefer using him with Meph which means JP Priest. This of course is for those higher point games - 1850 plus. I drop my LR and use - 4 Razors in that list.

 

This is probably not the thread to debate the merits of Las/Plas over TL Las Razors but I'll offer my thoughts. . In my lists TL Las is generally better as I have Assault Cannons, Heavy Bolters, Autocannon and Heavy Flamers. I don't need the Plasma.

 

I tried DoA lists. They were not my style and I hated them vs both DE and GK. I find Mech or Hybrid more consistent. Others have had success with DoA.

[skrikspya]

-Razorbacks. The rest can vary for me, but a strong core of 3-4 backs is usually fielded for me.

 

And you use Assault Squads for them? I assume everyone runs with lascannon/twin-linked plasma gun to avoid only having one weapon on the tank?

 

-Yes, most of the times it's assault squads packed inside. Yes it's a sure benefit w 2 weapons. And it adds flexibility to what you can shoot at.

 

-I never play special characters, scouts.

 

That's two strikes for Scouts, then. Why no special characters? Does that include Mephiston?

 

-Well, I find them both cheesy and very expensive pointwise. In BA there are so many nice options to field so you don't have to look around for long to find good alternatives in troops, elites, fast attack or heavy support :)

 

-Well.. It all depends on what my opponent fields. I try to maka balanced lists who can react to circumstances rather than a one trick pony. Also depends if I run with a landraider, two or none at all.

 

How do you use your Land Raiders? They seem somewhat contentious in mechanised lists.

 

-They are armoured transports basically. Crusaders are nice overall, redeemer nice vs hordes. An opponent has to either try to shoot it out with most of its eavy weaponry or make the call to let it run free with it's load.

 

-Same, they've done some heroic deeds and soak up a lot of fire I find them simply awesome.

 

Do you take more than one? Again, how do you use them? :D

 

-It depends, usually I run w one to add punch and a sure target for my opponents to pick at. Means A LOT less fire to rest of the army. If I run two, it's more for gimmick with termies inside to deliver some serious pain in CC.

 

-Yes, they are nice! A nice plus is that we as BA are the only one who can use it, so use it damn it!

 

Yup, I'm kinda tempted to use them purely because they're our tanks, dammit. I absolutely insist on having a Blood Angels-themed army and if I'm using a mechanised list, Baal Predators are where it's at.

 

-Land SPeeders are a very nice addition. Cheap firepower who look awesome. Can DS if needed or zoom in with rest of the army.

 

Two votes for Land Speeders, then. Do you prefer them to Attack Bikes? The Attack Bikes are cheaper....

 

-Yes, I find speeders more versatile. And looks better imo.

 

When I field devastators I run 2 groups of 5, w 3 ML in each. One group and it's too easy to avoid.

 

Do you use Devastators in your mechanised lists? DM seems to feel that Predators are superior. What's your take?

 

-Well. Both have their roles in mecha. Preds are more mobile but devastators are more versatile in targets they shoot at. If you have lots of close range meltas from say speeders and you think you can take out most mech threat then devastators are very nice. They can shoot at most stuff , be it vehicles or hordes very well. I find the choice of Heavy Support depends largely on how the rest of your army is built up

 

1x 10 TAC w mg, mm in Rhino

 

5 assault termies, 3 hammers, 2 claws.

 

1x Assault can Baal w HB sponsons

 

2x Rifle Dreads

 

Can't really stand standard Preds so I roll without them (until I eventually will fall for them)

 

Why use a Tactical Squad instead of the cheaper Assault Squad?

 

-In razorbacks you mean? Simply because I want more bodies. One 10 man squad, w one razor you can keep one for a backfield objective (w 1 ML) and take the other one up front. You want your troops mainly for 1. cheap scoring 2. "free" vehicle. Noone is exactly threatened by 5 assault marines or 5 tacts on its own w/o pimped out gear and inability to get off charges (most of the time vs decent opponents)

 

Why Terminators? I was planning on using Death Company as my counter-assault unit. Or Mephiston. Or Death Company and Mephiston.

 

-Termies are very nice and the libby makes shield available which is godsend in mech. DC is a unit I use a lot, but it takes some practice to make it somewhat effective. Meph is a monster, use him to kill off some real baddies.

 

Your Baal isn't using a flamstorm cannon. Is there a reason for that? I guess you range with the assault cannon and heavy bolter sponsons is much higher. Is that why you go for that loadout? What about using a flamestorm cannon, Scouting up towards the enemy and unleashing hell?

 

-Well, I use 2-3 speeders w HF (and MM) and LRR usually so I have quite some flamer templates and since I lack some midfield firing that's what my baals are doing. Your whole army is one, it has to have its specific thoughts for each unit and in my lists, midfield fire was an issue (and not close in fire from flamers) so I added baal(s) for that purpose.

 

What draws you to Dreadnoughts? Why do you prefer them to Predators? I guess they have ability in close-combat that Predators don't, but don't you lose some of your ranged threat? They also have a lower front armour, no?

 

-Dreads can pack a bigger punch to most targets imo. More shots w decent str is better than less shots w better str imo. My dreads are mainly in business of killing transports or such and they do it well. Sure preds can kill off tanks better, but I use other units for that purpose and there is never a shortage of targets for my dreads to shoot at. Plus they look awesome. It's very important to my lists, that it feels just right.

 

What don't you like about Predators?

 

-They are tin cans w one purpose. I like versatality in as many units as possible. If you lack fire power vs heavy targets then preds are excellent. If you don't there are better choices for you imo.