Hammer unit

[Thornoo1]

Looking for an opinion from you all. I have a tourney coming up and am looking at my hammer unit. I'm running a mech list with razorbacks and preds at 1750pts.

 

So I have two options open to me.

Dante, 5 Sang Guard, 2 melta pistols, chapter banner, priest with JP

 

Or

 

Landraider, Reclus, 6 deathcompany, thunder hammer, 2 power swords.

 

Both hit hard, I like the mobility of the JP unit but like the protection of the landraider unit.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Brother_Byhlli]

Can you give us a rundown on the rest of the list?

 

I really like both options, but I'd like to get an idea how you plan to play.

 

They both play very differently. What's the game plan?

[SamaNagol]

DC all day

[Brother_Byhlli]

DC all day

 

Agreed in about 90% of cases. I'm just curious to know how the rest of the list is expected to play.

 

:P

[vharing]

DC all day

I have send 5 dc with 2 fists + reclus and sang guard with chapter banner and 2 fists into to the same unit of CSM terminator and a few other units and DC are always better.

[SamaNagol]

With the Chaplain and the Furious Charge I would take 2 Power Weapons and a Hammer instead. You'll be inflicting wounds with almost every attack with the Power Weapon against most T4 enemies

[Thornoo1]

To put this into context the rest of the list is:

3x Raz 5 man ass, melta power sword

1x Rhino 10 Tact lascan

2x pred spon lascan

1x baal hb spon

 

The idea being Raider to take some heat off the lighter transports, I tend to do a refused flank. The JP unit however lands into a key position and must be dealt with or it will cause havoc.

 

Hence my inability to choose

[Deschenus Maximus]

In a mech list, DC.

[Thornoo1]

Isn't Dante's unit more of a threat? Plus the character debuff in a tourney makes things like mesphiton easier to deal with. At the end if the day the list doesnt need to be pure mech. But I'm open to convincing.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Isn't Dante's unit more of a threat? Plus the character debuff in a tourney makes things like mesphiton easier to deal with. At the end if the day the list doesnt need to be pure mech. But I'm open to convincing.

 

If you intend to deep-strike that unit, it will find itself cut off from the rest of your army and cut to pieces in short order. If you aren't going to DS it, then what's the point of taking Dante?

[Leonaides]

only if you ds it stupidly. You can ds right next to the entire enemy army on its own, but if you're that daft you deserve to loose. Dante allows you to land behind that bit of cover, at just the right distanc to be a threat but not be threatened. And he's got the mask to harm enemy hqs... You undersell him and the unit combo.

[Brother_Byhlli]

The Dante unit is solid, but the Death Company are better.

 

They have more flexible ranged threat in the Land Raider, they're significantly more killy than Dante's unit in close-combat and they carry the only power fist/thunder hammer in your list.

 

When I play Dante, I use an all jump infantry list and I deep strike him with a 250-point Sanguinary Guard, a 90-point Sanguinary Priest and a 125-point Librarian, all right next to my 250-point Vanguard Veteran Squad. You don't have that level of support for Dante's unit.

 

The Death Company, as well as being better in the ways I mentioned, naturally synchronise with the rest of your army. You don't have to go searching for that one lucky place to drop them - you can play them alongside the rest of your army excellently will and they maintain the added close-combat threat for when you need it.

 

Death Company, all day long.

[JamesI]

Isn't Dante's unit more of a threat? Plus the character debuff in a tourney makes things like mesphiton easier to deal with. At the end if the day the list doesnt need to be pure mech. But I'm open to convincing.

Dante's curse doesn't work against Mephiston. It specifically only affects Independent Characters.

[Mr.darkness]

dC all the time. Sang guard aren't the hammy unit you are asking for.they can't deal with everything like the dc can. With the reclusiarch they are just really effective, tremendous even.

Also, are you using the redeemer? I think it is the best of the three. You are going to get close anyway so you may as well use the most close range and I'm my opinion e most deadly of all the LRs.

[Thornoo1]

I tend not to get close until late game. When I play mech lists like this I will attempt to out-shoot early to mid game and then close on objectives late game. Simply not enough bodies to hold an objective if there is a concerted push. I want to see where my opponent is focusing his army and reserves before committing.

 

I'm not totally against the DC unit I just need a bit more of a push, my parking lot tends to be be very crowded at the moment and adding a landraider will only make it more so. Dante's unit scores as well plus its just to nasty to ignore and this will only help the main part of my army doing what it needs to do. Really at the end of the day Dante's unit is a diversion (even if it is a nasty one)

[Astorath the Grim]

Dante's unit is ok...sang guard have the power weapons to do some serious dmg however they won't live, lack of fnp and furious charge standard means its subpar compared to DC in a redeemer. The sang guard might kill some things or take out a tank before they die. DC WILL kill things before they die...IF they die.

 

DC is a hammer unit thats deffinately true, I don't see the sang guard as a hammer at all...if you have the points for DC in a redeemer go that route.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Dante and Sang Guard is a good combo, but just not for that particular army.

[Crynn]

DC normally and especially for your list. Not to mention I would hardly call Sang Guard a hammer unit.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[Deschenus Maximus]

I've seen SG referred to as a "beater" unit - a unit that has massive damage potential, but absolutely cannot deal with return wounds.

[Babel_Triumphant]

SG's 2+ armor save is nearly identical to the DC's 3+/4+ save. I'd say they're about equally durable. However, you really want to run a sanguinary priest with them for furious charge. I'd say SG really shine at cutting up dudes in power armor because they put out lots of cheap power weapon attacks.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Babel: They are also twice as costly per man, and are locked into 5-man units. They have zero invul save so suffer greatly whenever faced by something that has them and that will be striking first (Purifier, lashwhip Warriors, etc).

 

You are 100% correct that they are brutal against Marines. And I would also say that a sang priest is a MUST for them, not just desirable.

[Darligulv]

Babel: They are also twice as costly per man, and are locked into 5-man units. They have zero invul save so suffer greatly whenever faced by something that has them and that will be striking first (Purifier, lashwhip Warriors, etc).

 

You are 100% correct that they are brutal against Marines. And I would also say that a sang priest is a MUST for them, not just desirable.

 

On that note, the only time I've used them is with Dante + a priest.

They do very well for themselves (not as well as 10DC + Lemmy with a power weapon or two mixed in).

 

I'm somewhat ashamed to say I use them as tank killing (perfect DS with Dante and then melta/infernus) and then...as a distraction. Hopefully they blow up that Vindie (or whatever will get around my FnP) but in most every game I play, my opponent targets them with "the big guns" and they rarely have ever lasted the entire game. At best I'll have a Sanguinary Priest or Dante engaged in a losing battle by the next turn.

 

But they can do some damage. 2+/4+ is nothing to shake a stick at...(it is pricey though).

 

 

Overall I prefer DC. If for nothing else...Then for more wounds. 20 wounds @ 3+/4+ vs 5 wounds @ 2+ for the same cost...For a "beater" unit I'd like to invest into the DC, beaters serve you better when they're alive longer. Mostly.