Zynk Kaladin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I've never liked the fact that angron is the only primarch who did not get the whole father son bonding thing that the others did. The emperoer should have let the legion lose to save there primarch.Konrad Curze called from beyond the grave, he would like the childhood and father that he never had - back. True enough. But our dear Dominus Nox should have acted like a general he was made to be, not a child. :D Angron's rage initially is understandable. However, he holds a grudge for over 200 years. Seriously, one would think he'd have seen the big picture by then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 True enough. But our dear Dominus Nox should have acted like a general he was made to be, not a child. :wacko: Angron's rage initially is understandable. However, he holds a grudge for over 200 years. Seriously, one would think he'd have seen the big picture by then. Aye, but then when you have a brain-embeded set of cables through which you are fed agression, chances are you might have a hard time being reasonable. Plus, what the Emperor did was wrong, he really could have slaughtered the enemy army. And 200 years, for beings who endure millennia, isn't that big a deal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broker Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Personally, the big question for me about Angron isn't why he turned, it's why he stayed loyal for so long. I mean, he didn't get off to a good start with the Emperor, and the two missing legions couldn't have sat right with him. He didn't agree with psykers at all, yet served the greatest psyker to ever live. How did he not end up expunged with the other two? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 You know those scenes in Family Guy in which Stewie (Brian has a few, as well) is ranting or planning an evil action just to get distracted by cartoons/toys/Lois' breasts? It's a bit alike with Angron. When not in battle, he's constantly fighting to keep his rage in check, rancorous towards the Emperor and evaluating his less-than-ideal existence. Deploy him on a battlefield, though, and he'll be truly alive. He'll do a bang-up job, too. The Emperor probably knows his son doesn't like him, but hey, enemies closer, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikt208 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I think Angron is a lot smarter than people give him credit for. He may have hated the Emperor all along, but after seeing what happened to the other two legions (2nd and 11th) he wasn't going to rebel unless he knew he would stand a chance. Thats why when Horus turned he was one of the first to throw in his support, he was already game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Aye, but then when you have a brain-embeded set of cables through which you are fed agression, chances are you might have a hard time being reasonable. Plus, what the Emperor did was wrong, he really could have slaughtered the enemy army. And 200 years, for beings who endure millennia, isn't that big a deal. Ah, very true about the cables. The Emperor did nothing wrong. We only have a limited and a not very in depth explanation of Angron's angry point of view. Still waiting for a World Eater's book to clear it up looking at you ADB. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 this thread is fantastic and has added a lot more depth to angron-at least to me it has! (also stares at ADB until he writes that angron book!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The Emperor did nothing wrong. We only have a limited and a not very in depth explanation of Angron's angry point of view. Still waiting for a World Eater's book to clear it up looking at you ADB. Based on limited and depthless explanation, Emperor did bad job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Based on limited and depthless explanation, Emperor did bad job. Grrr. daddy didn't let me play. >:) Daddy bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Grrr. daddy didn't let me play. >:) Daddy bad. Uh huh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Based on limited and depthless explanation, Emperor did bad job. Grrr. daddy didn't let me play. >;) Daddy bad. More like "Grrrr. Daddy didn't trust me to win and in so doing made me lose for the first time ever. >;) Daddy bad." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 i agree with the above post (no, not the double post!) 100 percent..poor angron...he only wanted to free the slaves...;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I've always been confused about the aggression implants. Wouldn't they have no effect on a being as genetically advanced as Angron? Maybe I'm approaching this wrong, but wouldn't his body outright reject the chemical imbalances caused by the anger tubes? (forgetting the chaos gods for the moment). I sympathies for Angron. I really do. But I don't think the Emperor is at fault and until we at least get understanding of his side of the story. The whole Angron story is really 1d at the moment. The Emperor put up with all the crap from Russ, Vulkan and probably others that I'm forgetting. Why would he suddenly flip-flop and not put up with Angron's crap (which was noble and honorable crap btw)? The whole story is... awkward. There has to be a legit reason why the big E wouldn't aid in such a noble endeavor. He's a force for good after all. And he glows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2870944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Maybe there wasn't enough time. The big E had big plans, maybe there wasn't enough time to fit Angron's uprising in. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2871186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Is that bit about Angron attacking a Custodes true? That could explain the Emperor's reluctance to help. I'm with Kaladin on this one: much as I side with Angron on his grudge for what the Emperor did, there has to be a good reason. Doing it 'just because' or to save time doesn't make sense. Although, it could've been a last-second decision by the Emperor. Angron shoo's him, he returns to his ship and at the last moment decides he's not willing to lose a son to a few slavemasters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2871207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubermensch Commander Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Based on limited and depthless explanation, Emperor did bad job. Grrr. daddy didn't let me play. >:D Daddy bad. More like "Grrrr. Daddy didn't trust me to win and in so doing made me lose for the first time ever. >;) Daddy bad." See that is the part that I do not understand. The Emperor did not make Angron lose. Angron had already LOST. His army had dug their own graves for pity's sake. What is with this whole "Curse you Emperor! My friends are dead!" rage coming from? (Besides Angron just being damaged goods.) Besides the Emperor likely did not save them because they were a bunch of messed up gladiators with rage-machines screwed into their heads and the most expedient way to gain control of the planet, without diverting time and resources away from the Crusade, was to let the rebellion, now at its final battle, fail. He could then cease slavery and force the ruling body to quit with the head-whammy machines. Some maniac killers die, order preserved, Crusade continues all for the least amount of effort. The "save time" rationale makes complete sense for a man determined to save the entirety of the human race. Something about Eggs and Omelets comes to mind. While the Emperor demonstrated extreme patience in many situations (Politics on Earth(Prospero Burns, Nemesis, and Blood Games short story) and not just outright crushing Lorgar's worship-nonsense right out the gate while hoping Lorgar would get the memo the rest of his secular empire got) probably due to having lived for bloody ever, he also demonstrated the value of expediency. And by taking up command of the Warhounds in the Emperor's name and then burning world's for the sake of the Imperium, Angron validated the Emperor's decision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2871415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justiciar Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Why did the Emperor not just remove the implants? If it was totally making him homicidal and unpredictable that might have helped a wee bit. Have we ever heard a decent explanation for why he did not send him for some (for a primarch) outpatient surgery? With the speed at which they heal Daddy could have dealt with a large part of the long term problem in an afternoon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2871519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Why did the Emperor not just remove the implants? If it was totally making him homicidal and unpredictable that might have helped a wee bit. Have we ever heard a decent explanation for why he did not send him for some (for a primarch) outpatient surgery? With the speed at which they heal Daddy could have dealt with a large part of the long term problem in an afternoon. Indeed, I don't believe it was ever explained. Angron's story has a lot of holes that need to be addressed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2871532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Angron must have approved of the implants as he would'nt have asked his Techmarines to replicate the technology for his Legion. Yes there are alot of holes in the World Eater and Angron fluff which is why they need to be expanded on Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2872808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Terra Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Why did the Emperor not just remove the implants? If it was totally making him homicidal and unpredictable that might have helped a wee bit. Have we ever heard a decent explanation for why he did not send him for some (for a primarch) outpatient surgery? With the speed at which they heal Daddy could have dealt with a large part of the long term problem in an afternoon. I think I read some fluff ages ago that said the Emperor (or maybe the Ad Mech) planned to remove them but Angron outright refused. Ad Mech couldn't have forced him and the Emperor possibly wouldn't have been too bothered as long as Angron fulfilled his role as the Imperium's Red Angel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2873407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 And I imagine Argorn modified his marines in secert, in the same way the 1000 sons continued to practice their magic without limits. Simply by hiding it from the rest of the imperium. Chances are Argorn hung onto his implants either because they couldn't be removed (bits hacked from brain would probably make him entirely useless without) and it was a memory of those he left behind, a reminder of his grudge against the emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2873428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 poor angron! does anyone know if the implants caused him constant pain at all? someone really needs to write an angron book, handled by the right author (ADB cough!) it could be awesome! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2873436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 See that is the part that I do not understand. The Emperor did not make Angron lose. Angron had already LOST. His army had dug their own graves for pity's sake. What is with this whole "Curse you Emperor! My friends are dead!" rage coming from? I think you're missing the point a little. From reading After De'shea I understood that Angrons rage at daddy stemmed from not being allowed to die with his comrades. As a gladiatorial slave from day one, these people were his only family, his only friends, all linked very closely by their martial skills, hatred for their masters and the hope that they could be free from tyranny. Those sort of conditions would form incredibly tight bonds with people. After staging a revolution with them. After escaping and actually putting their former masters on the back foot and fighting back at their oppressors they made a futile yet final stand. Brothers in arms, comrades to the end about to choose death and freedom over life and slavery. Then Empy storms in and whisks him away, his comrades get slaughtered and Angron is mortified at what he perceives as his abandonment of his only real 'family' as he has had no choice in the matter. THIS is where the anger stems from as far as I understand. And to me it makes perfect sence. Martial honour and pride is a powerful emotion. Saa Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2874347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Based on limited and depthless explanation, Emperor did bad job. Grrr. daddy didn't let me play. >:P Daddy bad. More like "Grrrr. Daddy didn't trust me to win and in so doing made me lose for the first time ever. >:huh: Daddy bad." See that is the part that I do not understand. The Emperor did not make Angron lose. Angron had already LOST. His army had dug their own graves for pity's sake. What is with this whole "Curse you Emperor! My friends are dead!" rage coming from? (Besides Angron just being damaged goods.) Except we don't know that, and neither did the Emperor or Angron. Angron was a general as well as a gladiator, and while his army was outnumbered significantly, he'd made a name for himself beating greater numbers. His army had yet to suffer a defeat in the field and at the time his army was well-entrenched in a mountain range and controlled the high ground. We don't know what Angron had planned, and neither did his subordinates, which was why they sallied forth into the open and perished. Angron may well have played it differently, and he and his army may not have died. The Emperor took that chance and that choice from him. IA: World Eaters is very scant on details of the event, and from a personal standpoint I've always felt that Angron's been shortchanged out of his Primarch-ness in favor of his Berserker-ness by the fluff. After Desh'ea gave us a glimpse at the onset of the rebellion, at some of the personalities of Angron's subordinates, and the aftermath of the battle, but nothing of what Angron would have done had he been present to command his army. If the HH crew (and in particular one guy who's been known to drop in here from time to time) play their cards right, there's huge opportunity to give Angron a three-dimensionality we've never gotten to see, worthy of a Primarch, as well as adding another color to the tragedy of his fall to his most simplistic and most one-dimensional aspect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2874515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've never liked the fact that angron is the only primarch who did not get the whole father son bonding thing that the others did. The emperoer should have let the legion lose to save there primarch.Konrad Curze called from beyond the grave, he would like the childhood and father that he never had - back. And there's also Alpharius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237745-how-disappointed-would-you-be/page/2/#findComment-2874748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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