Has anyone else noticed...

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

I have noticed over the past few months that the amount of CSM stuff is diminishing in GW stores. I first noticed it at the release of Finecast, but put it down to purely the amount of old stuff that had metal kits (NM, Oblits mainly left not with Finecast releases). But over the few months since then, I have noticed in each of the three stores I go in regularly, that the amount of CSM stuff is dropping by the week.

 

I have put this down to any one of the following -

 

1) Other 40k armies have many new releases (DE, GK mainly) that they need the shelf space.

2) Chaos stuff isn't selling that well so they aren't heavily re-stocking as there isn't the demand.

3) New codex is on its way.

 

Before everyone goes straight for blasting through option 3 with a squad loaded out with meltaguns and plasmas, I had noticed the same thing with the Tau recently and the Necrons also. The Dark Eldar and Tyranid stuff went through the same lack of restock from shelves in the months before their release, with everything going when the WD release came that showed their new Codex was coming out the following month.

 

Although I do admit that 3 is partly due to hope upon hope (after many sacrifices to the dark gods), I did ask one of the staff whom I've known for years and he did go uneasy and said that he couldn't speculate. He does have a few friends in the design team so I take this with the same interest as when a guy I know who runs an independant store was told "I can't tell you anything, but I cannot sell you any more Necron stuff for a few months". That was back in May or June.

 

Thoughts?

[Brother Nihm]

The same thing happened to the Sisters as well.

Look at where they are now. :D

[Panda_]

The same thing happened to the Sisters as well.

Look at where they are now. :P

A new poor WD codex ?

[the jeske]

chaos stuff doesnt sell too well.

[techmarine Azuris]

ummm theres equal amounts of everything at my LGW ;) so idk ;)

[Cyrox]

I pray for option 3

[Dosjetka]

I pray for option 3

Dunno. Could happen that Ward writes it.

 

Ludovic

[Urauloth]

my money's on an even mix of 1 and 2

[Eetion]

The same thing happened to the Sisters as well.

Look at where they are now. :)

A new poor WD codex ?

 

 

Meh.... still be better than what weve got.

[AdriftQuasar]

Dunno. Could happen that Ward writes it.

Ludovic

 

 

So what you're saying is that Chaos might end up with well-written rules and a viable army list?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Dunno. Could happen that Ward writes it.

Ludovic

 

 

So what you're saying is that Chaos might end up with well-written rules and a viable army list?

And fluff that would make a 13-year-old fanfic writer burn their works in shame.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Rules or fluff. We should not be given either one or the other :(

[Dosjetka]

So what you're saying is that Chaos might end up with well-written rules and a viable army list?

I honestly don't see (though it may be because of my lack of experience) what the whole hoo-haa is about Codex: Chaos Space Marines. I love that book, probably because it's not one of these über-armies that we see in 5th Edition today, and probably because it's different to others. I must admit that maybe the 4th Edition Codex is maybe not as good as the 3rd Edition one, but please, for heaven's sake, stop moaning! Make the most out of what you have already! Yes, you can hope that you get a good Codex sometime soon but in the meantime, your stuck with this one so do something with it! Try different stuff than what the trend is (seems to be the double DP list)! Explore the fluff and how you could build a fluffy army! Maybe you won't much with it, but at least you'll get some kind of feeling when you see the models that you loving painted and converted on the table battling it out with those Loyalist dogs! And if you're not happy with it, change army and do something with "well-written rules and a viable army list", as you put it.

 

Call me some deluded fool, but at least I get on with building my army instead of mooching around threads, complaining about my Codex.

 

And fluff that would make a 13-year-old fanfic writer burn their works in shame.

My point exactly.

 

Ludovic

 

Edit: People are going to hate me for my statement above *sigh*

[Menkeroth]

Call me some deluded fool, but at least I get on with building my army instead of mooching around threads, complaining about my Codex.

+1! Fully agree, brother :( If willing power so we may play for GK or BA, for example. Chaos isn't for those who wishes only to tear all apart but for those who wishes to run a lovely created army as you've already said. That's the point. The desire only to win in the game isn't the best way to travel with Chaos.

 

So you're fully right, nothing to add :(

 

And as to the topic - i also hope for the point 3 but i doubt as for now SoB and Necrons're coming. So perhaps point 2 is for now :(

[Brother Nihm]

Call me some deluded fool

You poor deluded fool. :P

 

Make the most out of what you have already!

I and others have, since 2007, it doesn't lessen the frustation that in order to make the most out of something, that something needs to be there in the first place. It isn't.

 

What us Legion (non Black Legion) players have is a rule book that doesn't support the fluff, is full of poorly written rules, has overcosted and/or broken units in it, is built around poorly implemented concepts (e.g. Icons). Sure it can be a good book for campaigns where you can field Forgeworld stuff, homemade units etc, not so for tournaments. Hell - the book doesn't even support Legions!

 

Being a tournament player that wants to do his best and still have fun, I refuse to go 2x DP, PMs/Zerkers, Oblits in order to win, and anything less than a close variant of that list - in the current scene - is completely useless. Even that achingly dull cookie cutter list has a lot of shortcomings and everyone knows them. I am sick of it and sick of trying to get sub-par lists to work against bad lists. Against good lists and a general of the same skill level - or better, it is game over due to simple game mechanics alone - thus rendering skills useless. e.g. not fun.

 

A side-note,

I am the only Chaos player left in my gaming group now and I am inches away from shelving the army I have spent 19 years collecting.

We used to be eighteen chaos space marine players in our little group.

Furthermore, renegade players were few and far between here at the B&C before 2007 and most of those were IW, AL, BL players, where are they all at now? this is a renegades codex after all.

These days we average 20 users during the day across all chaos forums, with most of those being guests. We used to have hundreds (mostly Legion players) and it has only been four years.

 

Chaos isn't for those who wishes only to tear all apart but for those who wishes to run a lovely created army

It is also for those who wants to have fun playing the game. There's no fun playing chess when you start with only 6 pieces is there? :D

 

Things are not good or jolly in the world of the Chaos Gods, us chaos players do not 'moan' for fun, we complain about a bad product and that is all. We have tried to make it work and it does not.

 

 

My 2 kraks

 

 

PS. As for the OT, Chaos figs don't sell well around here but that could be caused by many different things really as it never truly peaked in the way it did in the UK and US (we're a very small country after all), the model line has never been a problem so it cannot be that. Our model line is full of gorgeous minis with endless potential for converting.

[Dosjetka]

You poor deluded fool. ;)

:)

 

I and others have, since 2007, it doesn't lessen the frustation that in order to make the most out of something, that something needs to be there in the first place. It isn't.

 

What us Legion (non Black Legion) players have is a rule book that doesn't support the fluff, is full of poorly written rules, has overcosted and/or broken units in it, is built around poorly implemented concepts (e.g. Icons). Sure it can be a good book for campaigns where you can field Forgeworld stuff, homemade units etc, not so for tournaments. Hell - the book doesn't even support Legions!

 

Being a tournament player that wants to do his best and still have fun, I refuse to go 2x DP, PMs/Zerkers, Oblits in order to win, and anything less than a close variant of that list - in the current scene - is completely useless. Even that achingly dull cookie cutter list has a lot of shortcomings and everyone knows them. I am sick of it and sick of trying to get sub-par lists to work against bad lists. Against good lists and a general of the same skill level - or better, it is game over due to simple game mechanics alone - thus rendering skills useless. e.g. not fun.

 

A side-note,

I am the only Chaos player left in my gaming group now and I am inches away from shelving the army I have spent 19 years collecting.

We used to be eighteen chaos space marine players in our little group.

Furthermore, renegade players were few and far between here at the B&C before 2007 and most of those were IW, AL, BL players, where are they all at now? this is a renegades codex after all.

These days we average 20 users during the day across all chaos forums, with most of those being guests. We used to have hundreds (mostly Legion players) and it has only been four years.

I'll take back what I said in this case.

 

I'm not a tourney player so I can't know how it performs in such an environment and I haven't been messing around with Chaos for long so my experience is limited too. All I wanted to express was my annoyance towards the B&C-ers who very often complain about the Codex. I may have been wrong to do so though.

 

Ludovic

[Brother Ambroz]

Brother Nihm summed it up expertly. I played an annihalation game against a Dark Angel player and a Space Wolf player yesterday. Each had pretty good lists, deathwing and a logan deathstar. I had my Khorne/Tzeentchian daemons as well as my Night Lords. We played it out and besides my obliterators my CSM list was almost completely useless playing a semi-fluffy/semi-competitive list. My daemons carried me while my CSM bogged me down. If not for a few lucky shots from my oblits to immobilize the SW land raider, the logan/deathstar unit would have wiped most of my units. We have no answer really to alot of things that are out there in codex books today, deathstars being one of them.

 

This is the main reason I think that CSM are disappearing from shelves. Even when I buy units, most of them are some sort of space marine that I want to convert to chaos in some way. The rumor about the codex though I think is definitely another strong possiblility.

 

Edit: To add to the lessening population here on the B&C, not only are we having less and less users/posts here in the chaos legios but there are also rarely any chaotic topics in the painting and converting forums. There's maybe one per page somedays while others it's maybe 2-3 on a good day.

[GeoWolf]

I have to agree. Our codex is just lackluster and dull. I have played many a game with it, and quite a few with the ones before it. I try to make due, and for the most part I have fun with my games. This is due in a very large part to the player on the other side of the table. As long as they put forth the effort, than I can enjoy myself, even if I lose. It's when I go up against the flavor of the month jerk with the net list that only cares about winning (I mean come on! Who needs TWO Ven Dreads with dual Blood Talons running around the table with Mephy and the Sangy too! That game was just painful, but no one will play him now due to his laughing in my face the entire time...) that just ruins the moment.

 

I would love a new codex, but I still reap the harvest of the corpse god in the name of my terrible gods.

 

On topic now, I have noticed a slight decline in stock around me, but nothing noticable. I also haven't really been looking for any of the new rumors recently so I couldn't know if thats the reason. I know alot of people are just moving on to greener pastures until our evil light shines again. Plus alot of models from other armies can be converted to our cause that are newer castings...

[Bearingtheword]

Edit: To add to the lessening population here on the B&C, not only are we having less and less users/posts here in the chaos legios but there are also rarely any chaotic topics in the painting and converting forums. There's maybe one per page somedays while others it's maybe 2-3 on a good day.

 

I hear what you are saying Tanith. I am new to Chaos and have just posted up a topic in the WIP thread and within 6 hours it was buried to the second page with only 3 looks and no comments on it. I am guessing that is because there are so few of us that do play CSM. But the great thing I do see here is that those who are here are extremely helpful and very motiviational. I knew after doing research that coming into chaos I would basically be building a fluffy list/force. I enjoy the narrative aspects of the game as well as converting minis so worrying about a competitive environment is not something I have to do. Hell, I think the closest FLGS for me is a good hour plus away up in Las Vegas. I can't say I know anyone, other than my son, that lives near me that actually plays the game, but he and I manage to have some great battles and a lot of fun in the process.

 

Anyhow, we can hope that we will be getting our new codex soon (sadly yesterday would not be soon enough!) and then we might just find ourselves competitive again. I, for one, don't want us to be overpowered, and for that reason I am scared to death when looking at who might possibly be writing our new dex. We just have to be a little more patient I guess...

 

~BtW

[Brother Nihm]

All I wanted to express was my annoyance towards the B&C-ers who very often complain about the Codex. I may have been wrong to do so though.

Not at all, you have as much right to express your opinion as anyone else here - the caveat being that no board-rules are broken of course. :D

[spafe]

Just a pop in, since I so rarely post, I know in my local group, 4 out of 5 choas players have stopped playing when the new dex came out (I remain, but not really done any expansion to my colelction for chaos). 3 I estimate will return to the fold once the new dex gives us some love.

 

As for the poor post, well I drop in reg, but only to read as I tend to find its limited topics mean I have little to say (but then little said, means less topics, cruel cycle)

 

Any who, i've stayed long enough, back to the gloom for me

[Lord Bearer]

I have to say that I have not noticed a reduction in Chaos goodness badness on the store shelves. It seems like the same to me.

 

I do want to mention that at a recent game tourney, I was chatting with a gentleman who is "in the know" and he mentioned the possibility of a new codex (supplement) coming in the new year dealing with god-specific armies... IE: Cult armies. This seems a little redundant to me, since you can do that with the current codex. The only gripe that I have is that the newest codex does not allow a player to take specific daemons. By this I mean that when you take a daemon you either take a "lessor summoned" or a "greater summoned daemon". I think that it would be cool to have the ability to actually take Bloodletters or Plaguebearers for your army. Being able to mix-and-match between the two books would be cool. I was told that the new codex wanted to focus on armies like the Red Corsairs and not god-specific.

 

Let's just hope that if there is a new codex, that it adds to the army and not detracts from it.

[Brother Ambroz]

Besides taking the most basic cult marines, you cannot do that with the current codex Lord Bearer I don't know what you're talking about.

 

In regards to your conversation with the "in the know" gentleman some of what you said goes with the rumors that have been being passed around here and some of that does not. Supposedly we're getting a WD update to our current "renegade" dex and then later we're supposed to get a codex about the legions, right around the time 6th edition comes out.

[Snejk]

So what you're saying is that Chaos might end up with well-written rules and a viable army list?

I honestly don't see (though it may be because of my lack of experience) what the whole hoo-haa is about Codex: Chaos Space Marines. I love that book, probably because it's not one of these über-armies that we see in 5th Edition today, and probably because it's different to others. I must admit that maybe the 4th Edition Codex is maybe not as good as the 3rd Edition one, but please, for heaven's sake, stop moaning! Make the most out of what you have already! Yes, you can hope that you get a good Codex sometime soon but in the meantime, your stuck with this one so do something with it! Try different stuff than what the trend is (seems to be the double DP list)! Explore the fluff and how you could build a fluffy army! Maybe you won't much with it, but at least you'll get some kind of feeling when you see the models that you loving painted and converted on the table battling it out with those Loyalist dogs! And if you're not happy with it, change army and do something with "well-written rules and a viable army list", as you put it.

 

Call me some deluded fool, but at least I get on with building my army instead of mooching around threads, complaining about my Codex.

 

And fluff that would make a 13-year-old fanfic writer burn their works in shame.

My point exactly.

 

Ludovic

 

Edit: People are going to hate me for my statement above *sigh*

 

 

I sort of agree. I'm pretty new to 40K gaming (old dude returning from the RT era back in the early 90's...). I try to build an army based on what I know about the Alpha Legion and with the options i have in the current codex. All though I miss being able to use cultists, but then again i could use lesser daemons. However I do get a bit disapointed when I pick up the Daemon codex and see that a DP in that one has som really cool options, while the DP in the C: CSM has no options what so ever (except marks and some psychic powers) which seems just plain weird to me.

[Master of fact]

Have not noticed a decline in Belfast but then again its only the one store.

 

I know we get mashed by most new dex's however i found changing it up confused the heck out my friends. He runs a paladin heavy GK army with dreadknights.

 

Well instead of the usual 2 dp's ect i took 3 squads of 5 chosen all with plasma guns in rhinos and outflanking. :tu:

 

Not viable at all but on the 3rd turn all arrived where i wanted and shot 30 rapid fire rounds into a huge termi squad. killed them all and no overheats hahaha