darth_giles Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I sort of agree. I'm pretty new to 40K gaming (old dude returning from the RT era back in the early 90's...). I try to build an army based on what I know about the Alpha Legion and with the options i have in the current codex. All though I miss being able to use cultists, but then again i could use lesser daemons. However I do get a bit disapointed when I pick up the Daemon codex and see that a DP in that one has som really cool options, while the DP in the C: CSM has no options what so ever (except marks and some psychic powers) which seems just plain weird to me.From what I gather, it was another demand from the non-Chaos players to have daemons be a separate army. Mainly because Bloodletters and Plaguebearers were extremely good; Bloodletters particularly were about as powerful as a Sanguinary Guard unit, and Plaguebearers could ruin a green tide/small bug player's day very easily. My old 3.0+WD Word Bearers army included a unit of each, and they were usually the stars of the show. Course the original list included a choice of Juggernauts of Khorne coming off a Daemon Icon for a possible alpha rush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 From what I gather, it was another demand from the non-Chaos players to have daemons be a separate army. Mainly because Bloodletters and Plaguebearers were extremely good; Bloodletters particularly were about as powerful as a Sanguinary Guard unit, and Plaguebearers could ruin a green tide/small bug player's day very easily. My old 3.0+WD Word Bearers army included a unit of each, and they were usually the stars of the show. Course the original list included a choice of Juggernauts of Khorne coming off a Daemon Icon for a possible alpha rush... Ok, I don't have any knowledge about why the Daemon codex came to be, but i don't mind it being a separate codex. What i do think is wrong however is that a C: CSM DP does not have any daemonic abilities what so ever, while the Daemon codex gives them plenty. Just seems wrong to me. That and not having any cultist options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bearer Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Besides taking the most basic cult marines, you cannot do that with the current codex Lord Bearer I don't know what you're talking about. I was referring to the "cult marines" and that you can take normal marines and give them the mark of a specific god. Hence... an all [insert god name] army. I admit that came into Chaos fully when the last codex came out. I have to do more research... In regards to your conversation with the "in the know" gentleman some of what you said goes with the rumors that have been being passed around here and some of that does not. Supposedly we're getting a WD update to our current "renegade" dex and then later we're supposed to get a codex about the legions, right around the time 6th edition comes out. A WD update would be nice. At least then we could update the codex and maybe add some fun goodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Even a WD update is still better than what we have I agree with you there, even if it's just for renegades. Ah, well before we had this dex, we were able to take a mono-god army with multiple cult units that each had their own specials. Rubric terminators that had 2 wounds each is the first that springs to mind for me. I just went to the gamestore yesterday and I noticed that I haven't really seen any of the other three chaos players in a long time. Their stuff on the shelves seems to be about the same but the number of players is dwindling, even from just earlier this year.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Even a WD update is still better than what we have I agree with you there, even if it's just for renegades.True that. Although I'm probably not the first to admit that I play Chaos for the modelling opportunities and challenges it presents; where other lines whine and complain if there isn't a model for every last little thing, I rejoice at the chance to make something new and unique. That's why I was so upset when GW released the Defiler for the Eye of Terror campaign; before its release, all you had were a few rough guidelines and could go hog wild. Now, every Defiler is like every other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 other lines whine and complain if there isn't a model for every last little thing have you ever been DQ because the judge finds your tervigon too small/big/wrong shape ? I was referring to the "cult marines" and that you can take normal marines and give them the mark of a specific god in the old or new dex ? in the old yes , but is no longer legal And in the new one you buy icons . If the bearer dies your khorn marines stop being khorn and elite most powerful [in the fluff] WE are weaker and no longer fearless because they put on terminator armor. etc etc etc . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 At least someone remembers what the hell went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antarius Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 From what I gather, it was another demand from the non-Chaos players to have daemons be a separate army. Mainly because Bloodletters and Plaguebearers were extremely good; Bloodletters particularly were about as powerful as a Sanguinary Guard unit, and Plaguebearers could ruin a green tide/small bug player's day very easily. My old 3.0+WD Word Bearers army included a unit of each, and they were usually the stars of the show. Course the original list included a choice of Juggernauts of Khorne coming off a Daemon Icon for a possible alpha rush... Ok, I don't have any knowledge about why the Daemon codex came to be, but i don't mind it being a separate codex. What i do think is wrong however is that a C: CSM DP does not have any daemonic abilities what so ever, while the Daemon codex gives them plenty. Just seems wrong to me. That and not having any cultist options. Actually, the CSM Daemon Prince is head and shoulders above the DoC one. It starts of with the DoC's "Iron Hide" (which would take the DoC prince up to the same price as the CSM one), also has "Eternal Warrior" and gets its wings at a third of the DoC price. So, power-wise at least, we've got nothing to complain about. It'd be nice to have more customizability all round though. And yes give us, cultists, mutants, traitors, weird stuff! From a pure "fluff" perspective, I think the DoC as a separate codex makes no sense at all. Not the way it's currently done at least. The Gods should be rivals not super-cuddly-happy-friends (Skulltaker in a Daemonette units and so on, for example...). An "all in one" Chaos codex with the possibility of an all-Daemon list would be nice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I haven't been to a shop in over a year...almost three years? Regardless, I won't get on the whole dex discussion, but my guess is they're trying to sell the newest products faster than older groups. You probably will see more of the new stuff as well as what usually sells well. I do notice a decline in the interest in Chaos, which is honestly not surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Actually, the CSM Daemon Prince is head and shoulders above the DoC one. It starts of with the DoC's "Iron Hide" (which would take the DoC prince up to the same price as the CSM one), also has "Eternal Warrior" and gets its wings at a third of the DoC price. So, power-wise at least, we've got nothing to complain about. It'd be nice to have more customizability all round though. And yes give us, cultists, mutants, traitors, weird stuff! From a pure "fluff" perspective, I think the DoC as a separate codex makes no sense at all. Not the way it's currently done at least. The Gods should be rivals not super-cuddly-happy-friends (Skulltaker in a Daemonette units and so on, for example...). An "all in one" Chaos codex with the possibility of an all-Daemon list would be nice though. Huh? The DoC and CSM DPs are almost the same, only the DoC one is cheaper to start and when you give it Iron Hide they're the same. Every daemon has eternal warrior so that's irrelevant. The point that you can give the DoC ones more options though is what makes little sense. I agree it would be very nice to get more chaotic stuff, mutants traitors, and especially-daemon engines anyone?! You can't take a herald and put him/her into a unit from a different god, that's illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Actually, the CSM Daemon Prince is head and shoulders above the DoC one. It starts of with the DoC's "Iron Hide" (which would take the DoC prince up to the same price as the CSM one), also has "Eternal Warrior" and gets its wings at a third of the DoC price. So, power-wise at least, we've got nothing to complain about. It'd be nice to have more customizability all round though. And yes give us, cultists, mutants, traitors, weird stuff! From a pure "fluff" perspective, I think the DoC as a separate codex makes no sense at all. Not the way it's currently done at least. The Gods should be rivals not super-cuddly-happy-friends (Skulltaker in a Daemonette units and so on, for example...). An "all in one" Chaos codex with the possibility of an all-Daemon list would be nice though. I see. I wasn't aware of the basic diffrences between the two DPs. I haven't really read the Daemons codex from cover to cover. I just thought it was "unfair" that the daemon codex DP had a some sweet options to customize it while the CSM DP has no customability at all. Makes them kinda static and boring in my opinion. But then again i have never used one in game. Maybe i should try one. Or two. I agree that the Gods should be rivals, some even outright hostile towards one and other like Khorne - Slaanesh and Nurgle - Tzeentch. But I still like the idea of being able to just go for the daemons. I used to play WHFB a lot and fielded a Warriors of Chaos army and always tried to avoid mixing even gear from the diffrent gods on my characters, and making sure a Khorne Lord was in a Khorne unit etc. And that's how I think one should do in 40K as well. Which is why I go with Chaos Undivided and maybe one cult troop option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 what I miss is the chance to take grenades on the DPs though, my main Daemon opponent always had, and I didn't... :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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